[BETA] Destruction Warlock Discussion

[DeadmanWalking]

Okay havent been in game in months, what is a good talent build for destruction pre-legion?

[striderZA]

OK so I did some sims and I do see that Haste IS best Destruction stat, after that it is Crit=Mastery > Vers.

Using Blaze, Entropy, Eradication, Sac, Conduit

Well then.

[Gaidax]

Maybe it's different for different base stats, I have retarded amount of Mastery on my live character and the weights were for my case.

[digesspliff]

I know its only pre-patch but, I have 140% mastery right now, and it feels sooo awful, 100k chaos bolts to ~240k, fluctuates even more with ring and stuff ;-/ I hope we will not get to these mastery percentages in legion

[Gnarilex]

I don't like all those Incinerate nerfs, Destruction to me has always been about Incinerate spamming and the occasional Chaos Bolt. Making Incinerate weak so you can get more dmg out of dots (as destruction hello?) is just bad design imo. Having virtually no interaction between Incinerate and everything else is also just awful. It should generate Soul Shards like Conflagrate, albeit at a slower rate, of course.

I agree. I liked how it was with burning embers. Not sure why it needed to change. At the very least could have had every fifth incinerate generate a soul shard if they were against the partial gains. Seems weird having a filler not generate a resource.

[Deleted]

I agree. I liked how it was with burning embers. Not sure why it needed to change. At the very least could have had every fifth incinerate generate a soul shard if they were against the partial gains. Seems weird having a filler not generate a resource.

Destruction in MoP was perfect, WoD and Legion versions are just (bad) change for the sake of it.

[FurtyIRL]

Destruction in MoP was perfect, WoD and Legion versions are just (bad) change for the sake of it.

I think this is honestly personal preference. Personally I like the current version of Destruction in HFC a lot more than the MOP version because it actually requires some semblance of thought.

[Deleted]

Generally I consider simulationcraft pretty reliable, but I agree I don't know how reliable it is yet, as it shows GoSaC around 3-4k higher than GoServ, which wasn't the results I saw on beta, but that may change with the artifact.

lets hope so. I would love to sacrifice my demon since I dislike pets

[Gnarilex]

Destruction in MoP was perfect, WoD and Legion versions are just (bad) change for the sake of it.

Loved destro in MoP. I quit shortly after highmaul in WoD so I don't know much about it. Maybe the shard generation won't be an issue in Legion, despite the changes. I'm gonna miss FnB aoe though. Felt really good seeing those lines of fire snake out in all directions.

For those who have tested in beta (or I guess anyone now) is the burning embers aura around the player gone now that they switched to soul shards? I'd love to have a glyph to bring that back if they removed it.

[Gaidax]

Destruction in MoP was perfect, WoD and Legion versions are just (bad) change for the sake of it.

Destruction in MoP was retarded, WoD was good and Legion we still have to see. I have love/hate relationship with Legion destruction - Rifts and Lord of Flames are awesome, but AoE and Life Tap (although thankfully avoidable) are making me sad.

[wooters]

OK so I did some sims and I do see that Haste IS best Destruction stat, after that it is Crit=Mastery > Vers.

Using Blaze, Entropy, Eradication, Sac, Conduit

you are probably right ofc..with these priorities. but isn`t it a bit odd using haste gear with blaze. haste do..decrease dot duration in legion right? would have thunked a long and strong immolate would be the best setup..so when the time comes for refreshing our immolate, we would have as many conflagrates as possible to enhance that one as well

[Gaidax]

you are probably right ofc..with these priorities. but isn`t it a bit odd using haste gear with blaze. haste do..decrease dot duration in legion right? would have thunked a long and strong immolate would be the best setup..so when the time comes for refreshing our immolate, we would have as many conflagrates as possible to enhance that one as well

Well do not know... sims show that haste is ridiculous, it is better than bloody INT/Spellpower by a margin, let alone secondaries. As a matter of fact it's almost 2 times better than any other secondary in my SIM.

I highly doubt that sims are THAT inaccurate. I mean even if there is a bug, which is probably the case, by that margin? Don't think so.

[Dastey]

By using simulationcraft 7.0.3 with Roaring Blaze, Reverse Entropy, Eradiction, GoSac and Soul Conduit I get the following results

69333 dps
Int 7.60 - Crit 5.73 - Mastery 5.08 - Vers 4.95 - Haste 4.35

Current stats:
8892 spell power - 19.19% crit - 17.12% haste - 139.29% mastery - 3.08% versatility

If I however switch to my current affliction gear with haste gems and enchants instead of mastery where my stats are:
8855 spell power - 18.16% crit - 33.4% haste - 96.72% mastery - 3.08% versatility

I get 68811 dps
Int 7.74 - Mastery 5.98 - Crit 5.84 - Haste 5.2 - Vers 5.14

Obviously in the above scenario the haste is way higher than 25% which is probably what we want to be aiming for in order to hit the perfect immolate to conflag curve. So if I change the enchants so I hit slightly above 25% haste and otherwise mastery I get this

69056 dps
Int 7.91 - Crit 5.91 - Mastery 5.8 - Vers 5.28 - Haste 5.06

Current stats: 8855 spell power - 18.16% crit - 25.4% haste - 118.53% mastery - 3.08% versatility


From what I can see of the current simulationcraft the stats are rather close to each other. But it does seem like with the huge amount of mastery I have and the small amount of crit that crit wins out slightly over mastery in all scenarios. Haste seems to be one of the lower valued stats which I really don't get, seing as hitting 25% would be a sweet spot in my mind



Edit:
By changing half of my mastery enchants/gems to haste on my destruction gear I managed to do a sim with the same amount of spell power
Current stats: 8892 spell power - 19.19% crit - 26.12% haste - 114.75% mastery - 3.08% versatility

This gave 69600 dps and the best result of all the tests
Stat prio: Intellect 7.97 - Crit 6.02 - Mastery 5.79 - Haste 5.47 - Vers 5.27

Worth noting about this test was that when I had around 25.12% haste (which is still over the 25% cap) haste was by far the most favorable stat scaling even better than intellect.
So it seems to me that if you can get close to 25% haste, the haste stat is really good, otherwise you may aswell go for mastery

[Gaidax]

I don't get it, maybe I don't do something right then.

Crit: 20.38%
Haste: 17.76%
Mastery 128.76%
Vers: 3.07%

Maybe I am near some sort of magical haste breakpoint with this specific case?

[Deleted]

how are other classes dps compared to destruction with 7.0 ?

[Dastey]

Apparently I had a version I downloaded yesterday and a lot of things changed since then.

84016 dps
9118 spell power - 19.3% crit - 21.4% haste - 112.38% mastery
9.19 Int - 8.26 Haste - 7.15 Mastery - 6.22 Vers - 6.21 Crit


88784 dps
9155 spell power - 20.33% crit - 29.12% haste - 106.56% mastery
9.75 Int - 9.65 Haste - 7.68 Mastery - 6.86 Vers - 6.77 Crit

88749 dps
9155 spell power - 20.33% crit - 25.12% haste - 117.45% mastery
9.47 Int - 7.32 mastery - 6.69 Haste - 6.5 Vers - 6.46 Crit

From this it appears that 25% haste is basically what you want. After that mastery and haste is quite close in some sims, and in others far apart


For people who are curious about Mana Tap. With the stats from the 3rd build above (88749 dps) the results with Mana tap are 90191 dps. So about a 1.6% damage increase

As for service I think it may be bugged since I'm still getting really bad results (86216 dps). As for CDF I am simming 85184 dps. So quite a bit of a decrease over Soul Conduit.

For those wondering how much of a nerf Wreak Havoc is in terms of single target DPS, the answer is results of 83984 dps (So about 5k). Could appear that CDF is either absolutely terrible or somehow bugged in simulationcraft atm.
Nontheless it doesn't take a lot of cleave to make up for the 5000 dps.

[Gaidax]

OK, that makes more sense. Still, seems that Haste is overall the right answer, after that Mastery... now just need to see how it works with stuff other than pure Single Target.

I did try various modes there, like movement and such and it seems haste is seriously dropping hard the moment there is movement. In any case, I seen that Mastery was consistently good and Haste was all the way from godlike to terrible (patchwerk to random movement).

[Turturin the Warlock]

Assuming the sims have the APL's close to correct (not a great assumption but for sake of argument)....

why would you Sim current character and try to reach any conclusions about stat priorities in Legion? Do you not realize that changing the values to Tier19 starter - mythic gear is going to have a significant effect on stat weighting, not to mention the effect of the artifact?

Unless you are all trying to sim for this meaningless period between now and August 30th, in which case carry on I guess, but remember that people come here for information. All of you "concluding" that you know the proper stat priority based on lvl 100 sims @ 740 ilvl and no artifact are effectively misleading people unless you narrow the scope of your "conclusion"

If you actually want to run some useful sims on Legion, I can tell you starting raid gear 845-855 ilvl you can expect about 31k spell power from gear, 14 - 14k stat rating points (allocate as you'd like and sim). Then of course there are flasks @1300 spellpower, 375 crit food, and potions are a damage proc so shouldnt' impact the stat weighting. I think @Baconeggcheese provided the rating to percentage conversions if you want to understand percentages from gear that will be achievable.

[Gaidax]

Assuming the sims have the APL's close to correct (not a great assumption but for sake of argument)....

why would you Sim current character and try to reach any conclusions about stat priorities in Legion? Do you not realize that changing the values to Tier19 starter - mythic gear is going to have a significant effect on stat weighting, not to mention the effect of the artifact?

Unless you are all trying to sim for this meaningless period between now and August 30th, in which case carry on I guess, but remember that people come here for information. All of you "concluding" that you know the proper stat priority based on lvl 100 sims @ 740 ilvl and no artifact are effectively misleading people unless you narrow the scope of your "conclusion"

If you actually want to run some useful sims on Legion, I can tell you starting raid gear 845-855 ilvl you can expect about 31k spell power from gear, 14 - 14k stat rating points (allocate as you'd like and sim). Then of course there are flasks @1300 spellpower, 375 crit food, and potions are a damage proc so shouldnt' impact the stat weighting. I think @Baconeggcheese provided the rating to percentage conversions if you want to understand percentages from gear that will be achievable.

Of course we do not...

We try to understand what to work with in pre-patch, Legion is still some time away.

It is obvious that artifact and traits there will change a lot and yes simulationcraft is probably far from perfect too, but that's what we actually have now.

And I am in Legion Alpha/Beta since winter, I slack a bit so only ilvl 850, but I unlocked 3 gold traits and I know full well what stats we can be expected to have.

[Baconeggcheese]

And I am in Legion Alpha/Beta since winter, I slack a bit so only ilvl 850, but I unlocked 3 gold traits and I know full well what stats we can be expected to have.

Lol you funny, I've had it since that first wave they did to get all the mythic people in and I think I'm like 810 or something.