[Beta] Havoc Discussion

[Deleted]

Momentum is dead in the water. only fanboys still think its viable.

viable for aoe trash packs in raids/dungeons and big pulls during levelling , yes it will be great for that.

Raiding? No , just no. the uptime required for it to be better than nemesis and FE is unrealistic. if every raid boss consisted of the boss standing in the middle of the room with no mechanics to dodge/move around for or adds to switch to, then it would be great.

sadly that is not the case. this idea that you are going to always be able to maximise use of momentum by fel rushing diagonally then through the boss then back is crazy. is no one here an experienced end game raider?

mechanics will cause you to miss out on large amounts of damage with wasted momentums.

Please focus elsewhere.

if you need an example just watch @Sangomah Twitch streams, he uses momentum and is often bottom damage/DPS by a significant amount using momentum. And tbh using momentum gets him into trouble with managing having to dodge stuff or move around whilst still being able to consistently damage the boss.

You can't compare with Sangomah, hes not the best demon hunter, he can probably play but hes not playing it properly, so momentum is still good if u can handle it.

[Deleted]

Momentum is dead in the water. only fanboys still think its viable.

viable for aoe trash packs in raids/dungeons and big pulls during levelling , yes it will be great for that.

Raiding? No , just no. the uptime required for it to be better than nemesis and FE is unrealistic. if every raid boss consisted of the boss standing in the middle of the room with no mechanics to dodge/move around for or adds to switch to, then it would be great.

sadly that is not the case. this idea that you are going to always be able to maximise use of momentum by fel rushing diagonally then through the boss then back is crazy. is no one here an experienced end game raider?

mechanics will cause you to miss out on large amounts of damage with wasted momentums.

Please focus elsewhere.

if you need an example just watch @Sangomah Twitch streams, he uses momentum and is often bottom damage/DPS by a significant amount using momentum. And tbh using momentum gets him into trouble with managing having to dodge stuff or move around whilst still being able to consistently damage the boss.

Picking some random guy who is failing at it? nice logic. Mythic logs say otherwise.

[nethara]

You may need to learn to read, because i've not said anyone is wrong for liking it, so if you could stop strawman arguments that would be awesome. I said, when someone criticises the spec, people defend it by saying it's like every other melee spec in beta, which it absolutely isn't.

You told them that they need to stop giving their opinion (and yes, how similar specs are is very much an opinion). Just because their opinion differs from yours doesn't make it invalid, nor does it mean that they can't give it.

[Deleted]

interesting denial, havoc thread has really gone down hill since the experienced players who started it gave up .

i now see why. well best of luck losing out on dps for a whole expansion.

[jayinjersey]

You have your version of things, and I don't expect we will sway you in any direction.


They rest of us will focus on facts and data.


But thanks for visiting.

[Shirofune]

Momentum is dead in the water. only fanboys still think its viable.

viable for aoe trash packs in raids/dungeons and big pulls during levelling , yes it will be great for that.

Raiding? No , just no. the uptime required for it to be better than nemesis and FE is unrealistic. if every raid boss consisted of the boss standing in the middle of the room with no mechanics to dodge/move around for or adds to switch to, then it would be great.

sadly that is not the case. this idea that you are going to always be able to maximise use of momentum by fel rushing diagonally then through the boss then back is crazy. is no one here an experienced end game raider?

mechanics will cause you to miss out on large amounts of damage with wasted momentums.

Please focus elsewhere.

if you need an example just watch @Sangomah Twitch streams, he uses momentum and is often bottom damage/DPS by a significant amount using momentum. And tbh using momentum gets him into trouble with managing having to dodge stuff or move around whilst still being able to consistently damage the boss.

If that's the case, Blizzard will buff the talent. It's clear that talent is there to give you damage if you're able to play well.

I agree with you in something, I don't believe Nemesis giving the same damage as Momentum is fair.

[Vanyali]

Guys. Just ignore him. He only comes in here to rile you up, and you all just go along with it.

[Sarkol]

You told them that they need to stop giving their opinion (and yes, how similar specs are is very much an opinion). Just because their opinion differs from yours doesn't make it invalid, nor does it mean that they can't give it.

I didn't say that, but even if i did imply that, saying Havoc is like other melee specs is factually incorrect. It's an opinion, but factually incorrect.

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

Finally got to 110, and i gotta say: as far as soloing content goes, Demonic/Soul Rending definitely takes the cake for me. I'll have to try and use Fel Barrage in a dungeon one of these days but out in the world it's not as crazy fun as i had hoped it would be.

Current build at 110: Fel Mastery / Demonic Appetite / Felblade / Soul Rending / Fel Eruption / Master of the Glaive / Demonic

[Sangomah]

My momentum up time has nothing to do with my dps. Its the rest of my spec. I can play the optimal spec but do not find it fun. Uneducated assumptions ftw....

You cant have been watching med much with your opinion.

[Pigglix]

I really hope momentum or demon blades dont get the highest dps -by- far, but that's me.

[Sangomah]

They said Demon Blades is not supposed to be the superior talent on that tier.

Momentum wise, it is only good if you can get enough effective uptime on it, which requires a lot of practice and is harder on actual raid content (read mythic) than the other talents.

[enchiridion]

They said Demon Blades is not supposed to be the superior talent on that tier.

Momentum wise, it is only good if you can get enough effective uptime on it, which requires a lot of practice and is harder on actual raid content (read mythic) than the other talents.

^This. that being said, i find momentum so much more fun and interesting than just "put up nemesis on the boss/right add, continue rotation"

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

It would seem (as has been mentioned before) that Feast on the Souls also works on the lesser fragments you get from Demonic Appetite. I'm a HUGE fan of this from a solo play perspective. Especially now that i'm running Demonic during my Suramar adventures.

[Sangomah]

It would seem (as has been mentioned before) that Feast on the Souls also works on the lesser fragments you get from Demonic Appetite. I'm a HUGE fan of this from a solo play perspective. Especially now that i'm running Demonic during my Suramar adventures.

You should see the insanity on big pulls in dungeons. Having back to back Demonic uptime on certain packs is godsend

[Mefistophelis]

I wanna get better at momentum so I gotta ask some questions.
First of all I usually have about 63% uptime, is that any good?
When should I use blur to get the extra 2 stacks?
Do I ever use Eye Beam on ST without Demonic?
I guess Blade Dance and Death Sweep at 3+ targets?

[enchiridion]

I wanna get better at momentum so I gotta ask some questions.
First of all I usually have about 63% uptime, is that any good?
When should I use blur to get the extra 2 stacks?
Do I ever use Eye Beam on ST without Demonic?
I guess Blade Dance and Death Sweep at 3+ targets?

1. yes with prep anything 60%+ is good
2. Depends on the fight/when you will need defensive cd
3. EB on ST is worth once you get the anguish artifact talent
4. I believe BD is 3-4+ IIRC someone else might be able to answer better

[Sangomah]

I wanna get better at momentum so I gotta ask some questions.
First of all I usually have about 63% uptime, is that any good?
When should I use blur to get the extra 2 stacks?
Do I ever use Eye Beam on ST without Demonic?
I guess Blade Dance and Death Sweep at 3+ targets?

67% is absolute maximum, but uptime is one thing. Effective uptime is another. You can only really figure this out by looking at your logs on warcraftlogs, to see if you have you are using the correct abilities within the window.

Blur wise, you want it when you need the extra burst, and or when you want to maximize your uptime during heroism. Krosus pull is a good example here.

I personally use it on 4+ for Blade dance and 3+ for Death sweep, but I think 3+ is fine. Can do some math on it tomorrow if someone doesnt do it for me before that time (1:33 am here atm so going to bed!

[Mefistophelis]

Due to the ms I have in Beta I usually get 3x Chaos Strike within Momentum windows. But I do a whole lot more dps in AOE with Fel Barrage and the such.
I went Rage of the Illidari and now on the way to Anguish, but it's getting harder to get power.

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

Due to the ms I have in Beta I usually get 3x Chaos Strike within Momentum windows. But I do a whole lot more dps in AOE with Fel Barrage and the such.
I went Rage of the Illidari and now on the way to Anguish, but it's getting harder to get power.

I went straight to Anguish and picked up Feast on the Souls while I was at it. Makes the rotation feel much more exciting having more Eye Beam/ Demonic out and about. And having Eye Beam being a viable choice for single target ASAP enhanced my enjoyment of the spec twofold.

- - - Updated - - -

You should see the insanity on big pulls in dungeons. Having back to back Demonic uptime on certain packs is godsend

God I can't wait to try this when I get home tonight.