[BETA] Destruction Warlock Discussion

[Baconeggcheese]

@DeadmanWalking conflag is a set amount of reliable resources for one to manage, immolate shards are just gravy.

[Dastey]

I'm seing some weird results in simcraft that I can't quite make sense of so I hope someone can assist me here

21.15% haste - 118.02% mastery = 84,911 dps
23.90% haste - 110.52% mastery = 85,533 dps
25.40% haste - 106.41% mastery = 84,659 dps
24.65% haste - 108.45% mastery = 85,009 dps

Stat prio
1st sim: Haste 7.65 > Mastery 7.01
2nd sim: Haste 7.22 > Mastery 7.11
3rd sim: Mastery 7.21 > Haste 5.91
4th sim: Mastery 7.41 > Haste 7.26

To me this seems like simulationcraft is putting a haste sweetspot somewhere between 24% and 25% but I can't figure out why it wouldn't just be 25%

[DeadmanWalking]

@DeadmanWalking conflag is a set amount of reliable resources for one to manage, immolate shards are just gravy.

Yeah I usually find myself with 1 conflag in the bag and trying to get that last pip to start the chaos bolt bombing run with that 1 to give me the 3rd (6th) Chaos Bolt.

[Baconeggcheese]

and trying to get that last pip

My imps name is pipfip and I found this amusing.

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To me this seems like simulationcraft is putting a haste sweetspot somewhere between 24% and 25% but I can't figure out why it wouldn't just be 25%

Unless you do an extremely high number of iterations simc will vary on every sim (even with it'll still vary just less), a few hundred usually means the margin of error and should be largely ignored in my experience.

That "sweet spot" will be completely meaningless in practice even assuming the sim is playing 100% correctly.

[Deleted]

I didn't even knew there were more legendaries with LEGION. Shoulders, Ring etc.

Sadly they all look pretty terrible for Destruction

[Anoregon]

I didn't even knew there were more legendaries with LEGION. Shoulders, Ring etc.

Sadly they all look pretty terrible for Destruction

Sindorei's Spite is amazing, at least. Extra 30% damage when you use your 3m cooldown Doomguard.
And Feretory of Souls gives Incinerate (and everything else) a 15% change to generate a soulshard, which definitely doesn't suck.

[Dastey]

Sindorei's Spite is amazing, at least. Extra 30% damage when you use your 3m cooldown Doomguard.
And Feretory of Souls gives Incinerate (and everything else) a 15% change to generate a soulshard, which definitely doesn't suck.

Sindorei's Spite is only available if you are choosing Demonology as your loot specialization

[Baconeggcheese]

Sindorei's averages to something like 4% dmg increase, where the havoc one would be 8% (not sure if works single target though).

the shard on fire spells one would be silly in and of itself, though the gameplay would be awful.

[Anoregon]

Sindorei's Spite is only available if you are choosing Demonology as your loot specialization

That's... really weird. I would be inclined to think that was a bug, unless there is confirmation that is intended.

the shard on fire spells one would be silly in and of itself, though the gameplay would be awful.

Not sure I'm understanding how just having an extra soulshard every so often would make the gameplay awful?

[Baconeggcheese]

Not sure I'm understanding how just having an extra soulshard every so often would make the gameplay awful?

You end up just spamming CB, everything you cast besides rifts and shadowburn are fire spells. Its like CR to the extreme.

[Deleted]

You did not even have to abuse shadowburn that much, as you have to in WoD.

What?

Embers were significantly more important in MOP, optimal SB usage to get another one was infinitely more important if anything.

Not sure I'm understanding how just having an extra soulshard every so often would make the gameplay awful?

Because the more frequently you use it the less impactful it feels. If you were playing an FPS and had a rocket launcher every now and then it'd probably feel valuable. If it was your default weapon, not so much. It's the same problem I've had with CR.

It devalues chaos bolts with their frequency and incinerates with their impotency and it makes the gameplay significantly easier - if you fucked up your resource rationing in MOP it took a decent chunk of time to build an ember back up, with CR you get them in so few casts that it's not a big deal - you can spend them wastefully and it doesn't really bite you in the arse anywhere near as hard. You need to plan 4 seconds ahead instead of 12, arbitrary numbers.

[Gaidax]

What?

Embers were significantly more important in MOP, optimal SB usage to get another one was infinitely more important if anything.

And if you did not do a particularly good job at that... you still were top. That's the point.

Compare it to WoD - if you were not doing a good job at that - you are shit.

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You end up just spamming CB, everything you cast besides rifts and shadowburn are fire spells. Its like CR to the extreme.

Honestly I do not understand you.

Here is the difference it would make, every other Incinerate you would cast - you would cast Chaos Bolt instead.

Literally the difference.


So casting Incinerate that does jack shit is great gameplay, while casting Chaos Bolt in its stead is awful? What's the difference? It's literally same action of casting spell that does damage. For all intents and purposes it could be legendary that makes every other incinerate hit 200% harder, would that make it awesome then for you?

[Deleted]

And if you did not do a particularly good job at that... you still were top. That's the point.

Compare it to WoD - if you were not doing a good job at that - you are shit.

Not my experience, at least if you mean the difference between two warlocks.

During Garrosh I'd lose the AOE padding at the start due to FPS issues at the time, I would invariably be far ahead of our other destruction warlock over the course of the fight by a pretty hefty margin.

WOD feels significantly harder to play better than other people to me - it's almost the same spec, just without the tier bonus snapshotting, less impact from SB snipes and reduced resource management. All that really changed was losing KJC, but I'm not sure that's much of a skill increase since there's so little to do while moving - the only "better" move you can make is if you have conflag charges or not.

I really struggle to find where you consider WOD destro more skill-intensive than MOP, I've always found it felt dumbed down in every department, and that's impressive considering MOP destro was hardly dance dance revolution when it came to inputs.

Doing shit in WOD feels more a result of tuning than anything to do with class design.

[Gaidax]

So, I see some warlocks manage to do ridiculous insane DPS with Immolate... is there some sort of bug or loophole to allow rolling Roaring Blaze forever?

[Baconeggcheese]

And if you did not do a particularly good job at that... you still were top. That's the point.

Compare it to WoD - if you were not doing a good job at that - you are shit.

Your performance relative to other classes isn't mildly important when comparing 2 different iterations of the same spec. Destro was only overtuned for 1 tier but saw use throughout the xpac. It didn't change that there were bad destro locks and good ones.

Not to mention that that notion for wod is completely untrue, if anything its far more forgiving in wod. We went through warlocks in mop who couldn't pull their weight just the same.

So casting Incinerate that does jack shit is great gameplay, while casting Chaos Bolt in its stead is awful? What's the difference? It's literally same action of casting spell that does damage. For all intents and purposes it could be legendary that makes every other incinerate hit 200% harder, would that make it awesome then for you?

Turning a spender into filler is not engaging to me, it removes depth and thought from the spec and drastically lowers the skill ceiling. Its exactly the same complaint weighed against talents like CR or the mop design vs the wod design.

What you do with those resources and how you manage them matters more when they're limited as opposed to simply being one cast of many that you are flooded with up to the point where you can't spend them fast enough.

I remember reading some who said something along the lines of they cast 4 incinerates in an entire fight with that legendary (might have been you iirc) which means CB replaces incinerate as a spell, you have nothing to manage, and you could basically just make incinerate do more dmg and auto-crit and it would be the same experience.

I'm not sure why that's so hard to understand.

[Deleted]

So, I see some warlocks manage to do ridiculous insane DPS with Immolate... is there some sort of bug or loophole to allow rolling Roaring Blaze forever?

? do you have a video or something.

Would love to see that

[Violetti]

? do you have a video or something.

Would love to see that

check this
cant click the log right now, but he did like 40m in the first 25sec when manno was attackable atleast 95% came from immolate and ring

[Baconeggcheese]

Looks like some kind of exploit, a single tick did 14m dmg crit / 6 mil on a hit and he hard cast immolate 4 times in 25~ish seconds

[striderZA]

Looks like some kind of exploit, a single tick did 14m dmg crit / 6 mil on a hit and he hard cast immolate 4 times in 25~ish seconds

He specced into Cataclysm, maybe the damage added through Roaring Blaze just keeps stacking since it's only considering the "first" Immolate. Something along those lines. His average Immolate tick damage was something like 250k iirc.

[Baconeggcheese]

He specced into Cataclysm, maybe the damage added through Roaring Blaze just keeps stacking since it's only considering the "first" Immolate. Something along those lines. His average Immolate tick damage was something like 250k iirc.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=10

250k would be 100k higher than his average CB cast, its not normal. Almost all of the dmg from immolate came from that one window and again a single tick did 14 million damage. Roaring blaze would need to cause immolate to do something like 424x its normal tick dmg for that to happen compared to my average ticks.