1. #1

    Ogres and the Void

    I was thinking about Cho'gall earlier, and it led to a chain of reading that made me wonder about the history of the ogres. I don't mean for this to be speculation, as there's a lot of circumstantial stuff here, but I just thought it could be a fun topic of discussion, especially with void stuff brewing in Legion.

    First off, we know Cho'gall worked for the Old Gods in our timeline, and he assisted Deathwing in nearly bringing about the Hour of Twilight. In the alternate universe, I think it's reasonable to guess, in hindsight, that Cho'gall's master was a Void Lord. He's seen as a traitor though, so he doesn't really represent the ogres, right?

    I got to thinking, though. We know the "evolutionary path" on Draenor roughly went: Colossals -> Magnaron -> Gronn -> Ogron -> Ogres

    The ogres stand out though, by going from an earthy creature to one of flesh. Also, there were the Ogre Lords that we saw on Outland (but not Draenor unfortunately), who seem to be a bridge between Ogron and Ogres, since they were more rocky. Now, I don't think it's impossible for the ogres to have naturally occurred (and Code of Rule has ogre legends that they were created all at the same time), but some people have speculated about a curse of flesh on Draenor before, and what if it's true?

    Here are a few things I stumbled on. We know that the ogre empires were ruled by a line of sorcerer-kings. The Sorcerer-King Toe Ring from archaeology claims that Imperial ogres jealously guard the secrets of magic, implying it's not innate to them. Page 4 of the Code of Rule story has Mar'gok say, about the breaker stones: "The sorcerer kings have gathered artifacts like this one for hundreds of years. Many affect the workings of magic on living beings, but others defy description." On Page 3, he says: "Very well. I will sell our magics. Slaves cannot take slaves. What can orcs do with the power of the Forgers that we have not already accomplished?" This really seems to say that the stones are how the sorcerer-kings came to be.

    It also says that the stones came from the Titans (Forgers to the ogres), but what if that wasn't true? During the Mythic only phase of the Mar'gok fight, Cho'gall has some things to say about the stones: "You know nothing of the power you meddle with, Mar'gok. (It calls to us. We know! Its power will be ours!)" "We have waited long for this moment. The true power of the Stones shall be realized at last! (None shall survive! We shall be the unmaking! Destroy them! Wash over this world!)" Meanwhile, he conjures dark magic with the stones and is able to hijack them from the person who's being using them his whole life. This, coupled with the fact that during Code of Rule, they mention several times how using the stones to create a magic breaker drains part of their life, makes it sound like Mar'gok might be wrong about their origin. The Titans aren't really known for things that drain life, but something that Cho'gall has more experience with than Mar'gok certainly does.

    Could the origin of the sorcerer-kings, and the reason ogres are flesh, be related to some ancient ogre making a bargain with the void? Could this be related to the mysterious Summoned Old God from Outland? If so, most of them have clearly forgotten about it in the mean time, but the ogres have been known to overthrow their gods. What do you think?
    Last edited by Jokubas; 2016-07-20 at 04:52 AM.

  2. #2
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    Well, considering the fact, that the Old Gods were the ones to cause the Curse of Flesh on Azeroth, It could be possible, that it was caused by them on Draenor, too.
    However, I don't think there IS any Old God on Draenor, so your claim, that the Ogres were influenced by the Void seems possible.
    According to the Chronicle, the Void has the biggest influence on the elements of Earth and Decay, which would further make the claim more valid, seeing as the earthen bodies of pre-Ogres (the Ogron and their ancestors) decayed into flesh. In my opinion, this could mean one of two things: either there in fact IS and Old God on Draenor, OR the Void influenced the creatures inhabiting it in some way, perhaps the way you mentioned, or perhaps in another way. There are many creatures wielding the poweers of the Void on Draenor, among them the Shadowmoon Orcs, the Pale Orcs and the Outcast Arakkoa. Considering the fact, that the Shadowmoon Clan probably made contact with the Void after the devolution of pre-Ogres, and the Pale Orcs are just Void-crazed Orcs, I would make an assumption, that the ones who contacted the Void first were the Arakkoa. We already know, that their civilization blossomed in the ancient times (Apexis), and that the cursed Outcasts are influenced by the dark magic of the Blood of Sethe, who could be an entity of the Void. However, this is ust an assumption.

  3. #3
    Banned Highwhale's Avatar
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    I believe there was Old God in Draenor. One of bosses in SMBG dungeon said something about it - You are just maggots swarming to the corpse of a dying god. It could be what 5th Old God was not in Azeroth but in Outland/Draenor.

  4. #4
    The Lightbringer steelballfc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Highwhale View Post
    I believe there was Old God in Draenor. One of bosses in SMBG dungeon said something about it - You are just maggots swarming to the corpse of a dying god. It could be what 5th Old God was not in Azeroth but in Outland/Draenor.
    there was a Quest in Outland where Arakkoa tried to Resurrect dead old god.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    I just love the idea of "I want to murder people in moderation".
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    the only "positive" in your case is that, unlike Blizzard's writers, you aren't paid for that.

  5. #5
    The Insane Aquamonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelballfc View Post
    there was a Quest in Outland where Arakkoa tried to Resurrect dead old god.
    They weren't resurrecting it, they were summoning it.

  6. #6
    The Lightbringer steelballfc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    They weren't resurrecting it, they were summoning it.
    even tho it's prof there is Old god in Outland
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    I just love the idea of "I want to murder people in moderation".
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    the only "positive" in your case is that, unlike Blizzard's writers, you aren't paid for that.

  7. #7
    The Insane Aquamonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelballfc View Post
    even tho it's prof there is Old god in Outland
    Outland isn't old Draenor. Them summoning it means it wasn't on Outland previously.

  8. #8
    I am Murloc! Selastan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Outland isn't old Draenor. Them summoning it means it wasn't on Outland previously.
    It wasn't on Outland, but it could have been on Draenor. A lot of Draenor was lost in it's destruction, its likely the Old God could have been there. Most likely on the Ogre continent, if this Curse of Flesh theory is correct. Which I'm in favor of. Good job, OP. My new headcannon until the lore sayeth otherwise.

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