The Silence Penalty

[Deleted]

Well that didn't take long... 7th dungeon today and because of some really stupid hunter who had zero control over his character made me yell at him. Well thanks for wasting time and silencing me.

[rda]

You're over complicating things. There is no need to investigate every case where no action is taken for abuse. The people abusing the system will be doing so multiple times they only need investigate when a player(s) reaches a certain amount of reports that result in no further action.

Tracking the number of requests to silence vs the number of requests to silence that succeeded is completely useless, because again it all is subject to interpretation. Ie, someone might have a thinner skin. So what, you mark it as abuse? Automatically? Then you have a problem, false positives is a terrible problem to have. So, manually? Then we are looking at hours spent per case again.

This is just not done, it is pointless.

[Pann]

Tracking the number of requests to silence vs the number of requests to silence that succeeded is completely useless, because again it all is subject to interpretation. Ie, someone might have a thinner skin. So what, you mark it as abuse? Automatically? Then you have a problem, false positives is a terrible problem to have. So, manually? Then we are looking at hours spent per case again.

This is just not done, it is pointless.

It is not open to interpretation Blizzard have a set rules if what is written breaks those rules then player will be silenced. As for people with thinner skin reporting others it will be easy to see from chat logs whether this is the case or someone abusing the system. I doubt it will take hours to investigate, after all it is extremely easy to see whether someone is reporting someone for saying "Hi, everyone". And I am sure that Blizzard are prepared for teething problems with the new system and aware that it will require additional baby sitting within the first few weeks.

[Lodreh]

No more fun is glorious indeed. Maybe later they can add channel talk about neutral subjects like how to boil an egg that was grown in a lab so as not to cause harm to the chickens. Also any chat showing emotions should be banned. You got a new armor and said "f*ck yeah!"? silence. You just got mimiron's head after 3000 runs and said "f*ck it finally dropped". You sir should be silenced. Did your donkey just die and you went in game upset and told someone to shut up? Silence is there to make good of you.

Yeah its glorious indeed. I am already using it against your kind. See you in game

Everything you just posted is appropriate for guild chat... not trade.

[rda]

It is not open to interpretation Blizzard have a set rules if what is written breaks those rules then player will be silenced. As for people with thinner skin reporting others it will be easy to see from chat logs whether this is the case or someone abusing the system. I doubt it will take hours to investigate, after all it is extremely easy to see whether someone is reporting someone for saying "Hi, everyone". And I am sure that Blizzard are prepared for teething problems with the new system and aware that it will require additional baby sitting within the first few weeks.

No, it's not easy at all to see anything from the chat logs, that's the point.

I gave an example when there is nothing whatsoever in the chat logs. That was the abuse, but you can't conclude that it is the abuse from the chat logs. You can't stop at "Hi, everyone", you have to inspect chat logs of those who banned that "Hi, everyone", and that takes time. And no, if you see nothing in the chat logs, this does not mean that you are looking at abuse, I gave examples as to why (misinterpretation of misspellings, do vs say, etc).

It is all always open to interpretation because we are talking about punishing players and when that is done improperly, it loses money. Nobody cares what it is that Blizzard has written in their rules, if they get silenced by what they think is a mistake and quit, it's a loss. Combine with a soft matter like "silence because of verbal misbehavior" yet alone "silences others for the wrong reasons" (LOL), and you have an issue you can't resolve efficiently.

(And, no, Blizzard aren't prepared for any problems. Or, rather, they are prepared to turn things off, that's the extent of it. We are talking about Blizzard here, they are never prepared for anything, they can't fix problems even when they see them and they certainly don't plan multiple steps forward, not in questions like this.)

---
Added: I'll say why this silence is not going to be a big issue - because they will relax the automatic silence to be temporary (like, 5 minutes) or do something similar. Obviously, that will mean the chat will be as dirty as it ever was, but there is nothing else they can realistically do, everything else either so monumentally dumb, it loses money and produces scandals, or demands resources nobody has.

[Zeth Hawkins]

So yeah, it's a terrible automated system.

[rda]

(merged into above)

[Eleccybubb]

So yeah, it's a terrible automated system.

Funny how people said it won't ever be abused. Again another shitty report system by Blizzard that allows people to abuse it.

[Pann]

No, it's not easy at all to see anything from the chat logs, that's the point.

I gave an example when there is nothing whatsoever in the chat logs. That was the abuse, but you can't conclude that it is the abuse from the chat logs. You can't stop at "Hi, everyone", you have to inspect chat logs of those who banned that "Hi, everyone", and that takes time. And no, if you see nothing in the chat logs, this does not mean that you are looking at abuse, I gave examples as to why (misinterpretation of misspellings, do vs say, etc).

It is all always open to interpretation because we are talking about punishing players and when that is done improperly, it loses money. Nobody cares what it is that Blizzard has written in their rules, if they get silenced by what they think is a mistake and quit, it's a loss. Combine with a soft matter like "silence because of verbal misbehavior" yet alone "silences others for the wrong reasons" (LOL), and you have an issue you can't resolve efficiently.

(And, no, Blizzard aren't prepared for any problems. Or, rather, they are prepared to turn things off, that's the extent of it. We are talking about Blizzard here, they are never prepared for anything, they can't fix problems even when they see them and they certainly don't plan multiple steps forward, not in questions like this.)

---
Added: I'll say why this silence is not going to be a big issue - because they will relax the automatic silence to be temporary (like, 5 minutes) or do something similar. Obviously, that will mean the chat will be as dirty as it ever was, but there is nothing else they can realistically do, everything else either so monumentally dumb, it loses money and produces scandals, or demands resources nobody has.

If the chat logs repeatedly show nothing from a player's reports then it is time to investigate that player further.

It is not open to interpretation. The majority of people will not be silenced for mistakes, and those that are will be able to appeal, this is no different from the current ban system.

How do you know that they're not prepared? Do you really think that they are unaware that there are people who will attempt to abuse the system?

Honestly all you argument boils down to is you think the system is crap therefore it won't work.

[Symmone]

I dont think anyone is arguing that legitimate abusers or harassers shouldnt get the silence penalty, I think its more the obvious concern for an abuse of the system itself. For instance if enough people reported you for saying Hello, you would get the penalty regardless of whether or not it adheres to the ToS.

[rda]

If the chat logs repeatedly show nothing from a player's reports then it is time to investigate that player further.

It is not open to interpretation. The majority of people will not be silenced for mistakes, and those that are will be able to appeal, this is no different from the current ban system.

How do you know that they're not prepared? Do you really think that they are unaware that there are people who will attempt to abuse the system?

Honestly all you argument boils down to is you think the system is crap therefore it won't work.

In order: chat logs of abusers aren't going to be empty all the time (and I am not even talking about serial abusers, it's not serious enough, it's not going to be a sport, it's just going to be a fun diversion for some, done from time to time for fun / occasionally for purpose), nobody cares that "it is not open to interpretation", a false punishment is a false punishment, they are aware of potential abuses but they aren't prepared for them - yes, exactly like that.

Have a look at the vote kick system. Does it work? Well, for some definition of the word "work", maybe, but it sure as hell does next to nothing to make instances and raids better.

It's going to be the same here, for more or less the same reasons.

[Gadzooks]

Whelp, I'll admit, I was wrong. It is clearly automated.

This goes directly against what Blizzard posted:

Following the Legion pre-expansion, any player who is reported multiple times under the Spam or Abusive Chat categories will, after investigation, receive an account-wide silence penalty. While this penalty is active, the silenced player will find that their ability to chat with others is greatly limited.

THEY claimed report > investigation > silence penalty.

Reality seems to be report > silence penalty > investigation.

Yup.

Fuck you Blizzard.

I won't take anything from Blizzard posts or whta any Blizzard employee says at face value anymore. This will be the last time they make a liar out of me.

[Karon]

So yeah, it's a terrible automated system.

either you just ride the hatetrain or you... ok no, there is nothing else.

Watch the fucking video, read the fucking yellow text and try to understand it!


1. You get reported multiple times to trigger the silence report.

2. The system creates a ticket and silences you in advance just to be safe.

3. As soon as a GM reviewed the case you'll be unmuted or the mute will stay


HOW THE FUCK IS THIS A AUTOMATED SYSTEM ASMOGOLD YOU RETARDED PIECE OF SHIT?!

[Pann]

In order: chat logs of abusers aren't going to be empty all the time (and I am not even talking about serial abusers, it's not serious enough, it's not going to be a sport, it's just going to be a fun diversion for some, done from time to time for fun / occasionally for purpose), nobody cares that "it is not open to interpretation", a false punishment is a false punishment, they are aware of potential abuses but they aren't prepared for them - yes, exactly like that.

Have a look at the vote kick system. Does it work? Well, for some definition of the word "work", maybe, but it sure as hell does next to nothing to make instances and raids better.

It's going to be the same here, for more or less the same reasons.

Why are people going to falsely punished? When a report is received it will be investigated that investigation will either support the player being silenced or it will not.

You keep saying that they are not prepared for this, not prepared for that, how do you know?

The vote kick system works for me in the majority of cases.

[Deleted]

HOW THE FUCK IS THIS A AUTOMATED SYSTEM ASMOGOLD YOU RETARDED PIECE OF SHIT?!

Because the punishments it automated and not done by a human?

[Gadzooks]

Why are people going to falsely punished? When a report is received it will be investigated that investigation will either support the player being silenced or it will not.

You keep saying that they are not prepared for this, not prepared for that, how do you know?

The vote kick system works for me in the majority of cases.

That's how I believed it was supposed to work, but if you read comments around the web, that's not how it's working - it's report > auto silence > investigation.

And yeah, it's being abused. Of course it is. If they were doing what they said they were, it had built in abuse protection, as every penalty had to come from an investigation.

[Deleted]

Why are people going to falsely punished? When a report is received it will be investigated that investigation will either support the player being silenced or it will not.

You keep saying that they are not prepared for this, not prepared for that, how do you know?

The vote kick system works for me in the majority of cases.

Because they don't investigate and then punish, but they punish you automatically and then look into it and maybe lift the silence early.
So if you get 30 people reporting you, have fun not being able to chat until a GM looks into it and removes the silence, which may gave worn off by the time a human looks into it.

[Deleted]

Because the punishments it automated and not done by a human?

because we can expect them being there 24/7 to pick up something like this every single minute of the day?
People are muted and then it gets sent to an employee. when this employee gets into the office he will take necessary steps.
Thats how its supposed to be, but of course people feel the need to bitch and moan about nothing.

[Deleted]

because we can expect them being there 24/7 to pick up something like this every single minute of the day?
People are muted and then it gets sent to an employee. when this employee gets into the office he will take necessary steps.
Thats how its supposed to be, but of course people feel the need to bitch and moan about nothing.

No that's not how it's supposed to be. Why not have them look into it and silence after that? You know the thing called "innocent until proven guilty"? Maybe, just maybe apply that?

[Pann]

Because they don't investigate and then punish, but they punish you automatically and then look into it and maybe lift the silence early.
So if you get 30 people reporting you, have fun not being able to chat until a GM looks into it and removes the silence, which may gave worn off by the time a human looks into it.

Is this not the same system that has been in game for at least 5 years now? What is the likelihood of 30 people reporting you unless you're actually doing something that warrants being reported?