Misdirect gone from Survival?!?!

[Aleksej89]

I like the new survival spec, it is kinda refreshing and fun.
Flanking strike only helps pet hold ONE target, it is useless when i am fighting 5-10 mobs at once - something the old survival spec excelled at.

But i can not find the Misdirect ability anywhere!

Any time i am fighting several mobs my Tanky pet can only hold 1 on him, while ALL the others are hitting my face!

My survival hunter was always awesome and AoE-ing outdoor mobs, but without misdirect any more than 2 mobs means my death!

[3clipse]

Yes, SV lost Misdirect. BM lost Camo. BM and MM both lost traps. Every spec had its utility reduced in some way.

[Aleksej89]

Yes, SV lost Misdirect. BM lost Camo. BM and MM both lost traps. Every spec had its utility reduced in some way.

Sorry but Misdirection is not JUST utility.
With Misdirect + Mend Pet the Hunters could AoE down a large number of mobs.

It was by far the most interesting aspect of hunters in the outdoor questing
Survival was my go-to spec for doing any outdoor content exactly because of this!

It makes no sense to remove such a core crucial spell from a spec that just also lost 40 yards of range.
Irony is that survival spec has the LOWEST survival right now, any more than 2 mobs and my hunter gets beaten regardless of Feign Death/whatever.

[Dracodraco]

Your flanking strike generates extra threat when used on an enemy that is attacking you AFAIK; That's your new "pet viability". Remember that Survival is a *melee* spec now, not a ranged spec. You're supposed to be in the middle of the fray, fighting alongside your beast. Not giving it commands at a distance, or using it to distract enemies while you snipe them down.

It's not in spite of losing the 40 yard range - it's *because of* losing the 40 yard range.

[Aleksej89]

Your flanking strike generates extra threat when used on an enemy that is attacking you AFAIK; That's your new "pet viability". Remember that Survival is a *melee* spec now, not a ranged spec. You're supposed to be in the middle of the fray, fighting alongside your beast. Not giving it commands at a distance, or using it to distract enemies while you snipe them down.
It's not in spite of losing the 40 yard range - it's *because of* losing the 40 yard range.

Flanking strike does not help the pet hold aggro on 5-10 mobs at once!

Survival was perfect for AoE killing due to Misdirection+Mend+Multishot (serpent spread).

Right now Survival also has good AoE but without Misdirection it is completely unusable!
Any more than 2 targets and my hunters face gets beaten up incredibly fast, even with feign/whatever.

[Dracodraco]

Flanking strike does not help the pet hold aggro on 5-10 mobs at once!

Survival was perfect for AoE killing due to Misdirection+Mend+Multishot (serpent spread).

Right now Survival also has good AoE but without Misdirection it is completely unusable!
Any more than 2 targets and my hunters face gets beaten up incredibly fast, even with feign/whatever.

And what I'm saying is, Survival has changed to be a melee spec. If you want to AOE now, you do as every single other melee spec - you take on what you can handle. You're not supposed to *both* get melee treatment *and* ranged benefits of being able to never take damage at once. If you want to AOE, spec BM. It's got great AOE. You can't actually fucking believe that a melee spec should have a personal pet-tank.

[Aleksej89]

And what I'm saying is, Survival has changed to be a melee spec. If you want to AOE now, you do as every single other melee spec - you take on what you can handle. You're not supposed to *both* get melee treatment *and* ranged benefits of being able to never take damage at once. If you want to AOE, spec BM. It's got great AOE. You can't actually fucking believe that a melee spec should have a personal pet-tank.

Why would a melee spec not have a pet to tank?
The pet ALREADY tanks, the problem is that we lost a core SURVIVING tool that allowed it to also AOE tank.

Right now my SURVIVAL spec is incapable of SURVIVING aoe questing, so i am forced to do it as marks/BM.
Who the f*ck thought that was a good design - removing crucial SURVIVING tools from a spec themed around it?

[Dracodraco]

Why would a melee spec not have a pet to tank?
The pet ALREADY tanks, the problem is that we lost a core SURVIVING tool that allowed it to also AOE tank.

Right now my SURVIVAL spec is incapable of SURVIVING aoe questing, so i am forced to do it as marks/BM.
Who the f*ck thought that was a good design - removing crucial SURVIVING tools from a spec themed around it?

Or maybe you're just generally not supposed to "aoe quest". Vast majority of classes can't do what BM/MM hunters can, because they are overpowered as fuck. Some balancing to that is fine. Go try and level as a mage, shaman, rogue (outside of 3 minute evasion), priest, DK etc and they can't handle more than 1-2 level appropiate mobs either.

[Aleksej89]

Or maybe you're just generally not supposed to "aoe quest". Vast majority of classes can't do what BM/MM hunters can, because they are overpowered as fuck. Some balancing to that is fine. Go try and level as a mage, shaman, rogue (outside of 3 minute evasion), priest, DK etc and they can't handle more than 1-2 level appropiate mobs either.

I have every class at max or near-max level.
What made Hunters so amazing to solo WAS their insane AOE killing and survival.
Especially the survival spec had it.

I would understand if ALL hunter specs lost misdirection.
But it makes ZERO sense for the SURVIVAL spec to lose the core SURVIVAL skill for AOE farming.

Right not MM & BM are much better at surviving in the outdoor than the Survival spec is.
Makes absolutely no sense AND it makes the spec feel like an incompetent cripple while questing when compared to MM/BM.

[De Lupe]

I see a few solutions:
Send you kitty in, gather mobs, then attack the same one.
Don't AoE quest.
Tenacity pet for the AoE attack.
FD when you get too many mobs on you.

The point is that you can't play the way you used to and you'll have to figure out a new way.

[Aleksej89]

I see a few solutions:
Send you kitty in, gather mobs, then attack the same one.
Don't AoE quest.
Tenacity pet for the AoE attack.
FD when you get too many mobs on you.
The point is that you can't play the way you used to and you'll have to figure out a new way.

There is NO WAY for current Surv to do anything close to what BM/MM can do.

I am using a tenacity pet.
I am using Feign death, shadow meld, turtle aspect...

If i am only doing single target damage what is the point of pulling 5+ mobs?
Just so they do more damage to my pet while i kill one by one?

Right now the only thing survival can do is go two by two mobs.
Which is slow, boring and incredibly pathetic compared to BM/MM.

There is still no explanation as to why SURVIVAL is so god-awful at surviving in the outdoor?!
If MM/BM lost misdirection then i would KINDA understand... but right now MM/BM are MUCH better at surviving in the outdoor.

[Callipygian]

There is still no explanation as to why SURVIVAL is so god-awful at surviving in the outdoor?!
If MM/BM lost misdirection then i would KINDA understand... but right now MM/BM are MUCH better at surviving in the outdoor.

Hi Friend,

The problem isn't that Survival is too weak in AOE - the problem is that the other hunter specs you're used to are too strong. Pulling lots of guys is supposed to have consequences.

Don't use the semantic argument that just because the spec is called Survival it's supposed to be able to Survive. That's like complaining that a Fury warrior can use more arms (weapons) than an Arms warrior, or that an Enhancement shaman actually uses more elements than an Elemental shaman. It's not the point, and you know it; it's just a name.

Hope you're enjoying the other 33 specs in the game a little more, I'm sure something in Legion will suit your tastes.

[De Lupe]

There is NO WAY for current Surv to do anything close to what BM/MM can do.

I am using a tenacity pet.
I am using Feign death, shadow meld, turtle aspect...

If i am only doing single target damage what is the point of pulling 5+ mobs?
Just so they do more damage to my pet while i kill one by one?

Right now the only thing survival can do is go two by two mobs.
Which is slow, boring and incredibly pathetic compared to BM/MM.

There is still no explanation as to why SURVIVAL is so god-awful at surviving in the outdoor?!
If MM/BM lost misdirection then i would KINDA understand... but right now MM/BM are MUCH better at surviving in the outdoor.

Havent played it much myself yet, but it sounds to me like Survival isn't meant to AoE quest then.

Sorry mate. Not every spec is meant to AoE quest.

[Aleksej89]

@Callipygian

What are you talking about?
Survival is about being awesome in the outdoor, SURVIVING in the wilderness and being able to survive anything with your skills and your trusty pet.

Same like Fury is about being mad or Enhancement is about enhancing your melee attacks with elements.
Or Frost mage is about using frost magic, or balance druid is about maintaining lunar/solar balance.
Or restoration druids are about healing, or protection paladins are about tanking for your team.

Survival always had the theme of being good at crowd control, manipulating enemies and other "surviving" themes.
Right now both MM and BM are FAR better at outdoor questing and survival, and that makes zero sense.

[WintersLegion]

@Callipygian

What are you talking about?
Survival is about being awesome in the outdoor, SURVIVING in the wilderness and being able to survive anything with your skills and your trusty pet.

Same like Fury is about being mad or Enhancement is about enhancing your melee attacks with elements.
Or Frost mage is about using frost magic, or balance druid is about maintaining lunar/solar balance.
Or restoration druids are about healing, or protection paladins are about tanking for your team.

Survival always had the theme of being good at crowd control, manipulating enemies and other "surviving" themes.
Right now both MM and BM are FAR better at outdoor questing and survival, and that makes zero sense.

Yeah and part of surviving would be knowing what you can handle and setting up the best time to do that through things such as ambushes and using traps.

[Aleksej89]

Yeah and part of surviving would be knowing what you can handle and setting up the best time to do that through things such as ambushes and using traps.

Please point me to the trap that allows us to survive fighting 5+ mobs while doing maximum damage to all of them.
Quick pointer: it does not exist.

MM/BM can easily AOE kill 10+ mobs without even being touched.
Survival gets murdered if they dare to use AOE DPS while fighting 3+ mobs.

So survival's solution is to never do AOE killing in solo outdoor content?
We go 1 or 2 mobs at once and do our quests many times slower than MM/BM, simply because we can't SURVIVE solo aoe fights?

[AleDangerous]

Man, to use Misdirection, the Hunter needs a ranged weapon, but Survival does not have a ranged weapon anymore, so it makes sense they can't it any longer. It sucks we can't use anymore, but the other Hunter specs lost traps.

[Aleksej89]

Man, to use Misdirection, the Hunter needs a ranged weapon, but Survival does not have a ranged weapon anymore, so it makes sense they can't it any longer. It sucks we can't use anymore, but the other Hunter specs lost traps.

Why is misdirection tied to a ranged weapon?
Rogues have Tricks of the Trade and they clearly do not have rifles or bows.

Misdirection is about misdirecting your opponents (duh).
If you want to use logic, it makes no sense for your arrows/bullets to be somehow mistaken for butterfly wing slaps or bear bites.

And if misdirection is magic, as is most stuff in warcraft, then that magic can just as validly work on melee attacks as it can on bullets/arrows.

Either way Gameplay comes before "logic" in a fantasy universe.
Take your survival hunter and go to a tough zone like Tanaan Jungle.
Pull 5-10 mobs and start your maximum AOE dps while the pet "tanks".

Even after using all your cooldowns you will barely survive that fight.
And you can attempt a second such fight after your CDs are ready, in several minutes >.<

Meanwhile BM/MM will be killing 10 mobs at once without ever being even hit.
Not only did blizzard erase the brutal efficiently survival hunters had at AOE farming, they also went completely against the theme of surviving when compared to BM/mm.

[Callipygian]

Why is misdirection tied to a ranged weapon?
Rogues have Tricks of the Trade and they clearly do not have rifles or bows.

Misdirection is about misdirecting your opponents (duh).
If you want to use logic, it makes no sense for your arrows/bullets to be somehow mistaken for butterfly wing slaps or bear bites.

And if misdirection is magic, as is most stuff in warcraft, then that magic can just as validly work on melee attacks as it can on bullets/arrows.

Either way Gameplay comes before "logic" in a fantasy universe.
Take your survival hunter and go to a tough zone like Tanaan Jungle.
Pull 5-10 mobs and start your maximum AOE dps while the pet "tanks".

Even after using all your cooldowns you will barely survive that fight.
And you can attempt a second such fight after your CDs are ready, in several minutes >.<

Meanwhile BM/MM will be killing 10 mobs at once without ever being even hit.
Not only did blizzard erase the brutal efficiently survival hunters had at AOE farming, they also went completely against the theme of surviving when compared to BM/mm.

AOE farming has never been the "theme" of survival hunter. I encourage you to look at these different point-in-time descriptions of the hunter class & specs and show me otherwise:
https://web.archive.org/web/20071030...lasses/hunter/
https://web.archive.org/web/20061205...lasses/hunter/
https://web.archive.org/web/20110507...e/class/hunter

Just because a class could do something doesn't mean it was a) intended b) their theme.

[Slicer299]

There is NO WAY for current Surv to do anything close to what BM/MM can do.

Yes, and that's by design. You may not like it, a lot of people don't like it, but it was done on purpose because no other melee class can do what you want to be able to do with survival. Yes they did not give Survival Hunters the same survival utilities that a Paladin or Warrior have, but doing that via allowing you to dump aggro to your pet would be the wrong way to do it.

BM and MM got kicked in the nuts for questing and AoE pulls too. Even with MD we lost Glyph of MD that allowed us to spam MD without a CD.