Mafia #72: Heads of State. Game Thread

[Deleted]

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@Cruelle, then I may have undone your redaction with my analysis....

Your forgetting the other ability.

[Virothe]

For what it's worth I don't believe that Virothe would deliberately skew his results simply because if it becomes obvious that he is being biased then it paints him in a suspicious light. So regardless of his alignment to me it makes much more sense for him to be cool and calculated.

My thing is I understand the burden of proof is on me to prove I'm not going to be biased with this list when I'm on a team and I completely accept that as a fact. But this list was made for something more than just being able to use it to my own ends, it's made to help stop an on-going issue with this game and that's the idea that lurkers can win and non-contribution is okay. I want people to be held accountable for not putting effort in to the game, I want to at least attempt to bring the game back to it was a couple years ago instead of having end games crawl by because no one can be bothered to post.

Catta lurked to the win last game and I can't imagine feeling proud over a victory where the only thing you did for the majority of it is exist and happen to be on the right team. I never do when I've done that, not ever. Especially when you see someone like Senna play their hearts out only to lose because the lurker happened to not be on their team. It just feels like a slap in the face.

It's why I got so mad at Deathmourne, The accusation that my list is going to be used to push my own agenda just destroys what the list is meant to be at it's core and devalues all the effort I put in to it. So if I over reacted w/e I understand that I need to prove I'm not going to botch a few numbers just to push my own ends and I'm fine with that, just don't accuse me of shit until it happens.

[Crissi]

Yay Cruelle!

As for that claim. That is... Bizarre. But after the inanimate objects game, bizarreness should be expected in some form. My suspicions are the same as they've been, but I'll need to reread to get better reads on others. My initial impressions are kryllian gives my scum vibes with how he wasn't quite on Allowyn until the end (but didn't vote) and pushed shiro instead

Sorry. I'm currently delirious with a fever, so this post likely makes little sense. Like hell, this week has been shitty and if I knew this was gonna happen, I'd have waited til the next game *flips table*

[Deleted]

Your forgetting the other ability.

I'm tired ignore me. You can of course speculate as to which of the 2 abilities from the remaining 3 I will receive.

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Yay Cruelle!

As for that claim. That is... Bizarre. But after the inanimate objects game, bizarreness should be expected in some form. My suspicions are the same as they've been, but I'll need to reread to get better reads on others. My initial impressions are kryllian gives my scum vibes with how he wasn't quite on Allowyn until the end (but didn't vote) and pushed shiro instead

Sorry. I'm currently delirious with a fever, so this post likely makes little sense. Like hell, this week has been shitty and if I knew this was gonna happen, I'd have waited til the next game *flips table*

Well I hope you get well soon.

[shirokitsune]

Poor moonbunny, never gets a day off from trying to save the world even when layed up in bed with a fever.

The irony would be truly hilarious if they gave you Japan :-P

[Crissi]

Poor moonbunny, never gets a day off from trying to save the world even when layed up in bed with a fever.

The irony would be truly hilarious if they gave you Japan :-P

Should have joined the sailor moon game and got assigned sailor moon. Lulz.

[Marack]

More a speculation and not sure how game works question:
I wonder if perhaps they can't order hits anymore without a godfather... Not entirely sure how basic ruleset works for these; in my mind doesn't removing the defined leader make the rest impotent? Or is there a method for one of the goons to take over the helm?

Mildly curious about this as well. Wouldnt surprise me if the goons had to 100% agree on a target or if someone needed the GF dead to take over the mafia.

My thing is I understand the burden of proof is on me to prove I'm not going to be biased with this list when I'm on a team and I completely accept that as a fact.

Possible slip?

@dethmourne Im hardpressed to find any added value from you in the game. You even stated at one point “ I didn't read anything from before my entry into the game.” Why shouldnt we nominate you as the target Cruelle takes with him?

[listo95]

So Danner I see you think I'm more likely to be scum due to my vote on Shiro instead of Allo. My reasoning behind it is when I placed my vote was before I left for work, which meant when I left it would be difficult for me to read/post. When I placed my vote Shiro was a legitimate train that was gaining traction and I saw a way for us to get info from it. Allo only had 1 vote at said time so I didn't think that lynch was going to occur. By the time I had a chance to check day was over with Allo lynched. I know that isn't a great reason but it is the reason I voted Shiro over Allo.

[Virothe]

[QUOPossible slip?
[/QUOTE]

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Bah stupid phone, no its not a slip. I simply meant what I said, if im on a team whether or not its in thos game or another the burden is on me to prove that my personal bias's dont outweigh the way my list is done.

[Marack]

@Virothe Fair enough. Other then deth not liking your list, you intend on continuing with the work on it?

Also
Vote JynxieJ
With Crackle claiming cop, Finding it hard pressed to believe BF saying Jynxie is town (unless in a mason). Not to mention He hasnt been around and doesnt seem to be playing. Just for some pressure to get eyes on Jynxie

[Virothe]

@Virothe Fair enough. Other then deth not liking your list, you intend on continuing with the work on it?

Yes I do, I will most likely do it at the midway point of this day or perhaps a little later. Right now I'm just trying to see if I like day by day or whether or not an allotted amount of posts would be a better system. So /shrug

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If I get lynched I lose two of my abilities. One being my ability to self resurrect

Man talking about my list is all swell and shit but I should play the game!

Also just to throw this out there since I don't think it was clarified yet, but this sounds like if you were night killed you would live indefinitely and thus be of better use to the town if you can be vindicated without a lynch.

It also seems highly over powered that you have an iron-collar Resurrection.

So I'm guess I'm asking for clarification on whether you lose your resurrection if you're nk'd and why you would think self lynching and losing the resurrection would be a better plan.

But then again you can redirect night actions meaning we can't trust cop results on you meaning you can't be vindicated, and you're also a PGO of sorts?

If I wasn't so sure you were just a jester role I would vote on you but then I feel like that's playing right in to your hands. Dang it, that's one hell of a claim you concocted cause I feel the only way out of this loop is to lynch you XD

[Xanjori]

So the Uggor flip cancels my theory that corrupt/evil leaders are town...

Gen-OT will have you know that Trudeau is the msot corrupt leader of all time, the very worst thing a leader could be...a feminist!

Also apologies for shitty stuff yesterday, I had slept very poorly last few days with so much stress in getting everything I need towards getting into uni, but today at least I have some reads. Will post them in a mo.

[Graeham]

Assuming that Cruelle is a Jester as some suspect...what are the sort of dangers we can expect from either going for a lynch or keeping Cruelle alive?

[Xanjori]

Alrighty so my reads.

I do feel Kryllian is the strongest read I have as scum, and it's mostly based around his attempt to form an alternate vote train to Allowyn yesterday, it's timing was very suspicious. I see that several other people that I have some trust in have also voted or feel Kryll is highly suspicious, so I'd feel this is a safe place to put my vote.

On top of this Marack is my second choice. As I stated yesterday (before stupidly voting for a dead person) his trust list seemed insane. On top of that his vote today. Today should be pretty clearly about a few people imo, Kryll and Cruelle mainly. A vote on JynxieJ seems so random and not to towns benefit.

So to TLDR that: FoS: Marack, Kryllian

As to Cruelles "claim." I cannot believe it, everything about it screams "Jester" to me. Now I have my doubts about why a Jester would use the path he did (of claiming to be poisoned, and then coming out with his claim today) but I'm going to Occams Razor it and just say he is Jester attempting to get lynched. Town do not lie. That's something we've tried to reinforce repeatedly on this forum, Cruelle clearly lied to us, therefore I cannot believe he is town. As I feel he is then more likely to be a Jester rather than a mafia member using some strange ploy, I won't be voting for him today.

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Assuming that Cruelle is a Jester as some suspect...what are the sort of dangers we can expect from either going for a lynch or keeping Cruelle alive?

If he was a Jester...keeping him alive won't harm us. Lynching him could cause us to lose a townie. Imo I see no benefits to lynching him.

[shirokitsune]

Vote JynxieJ
With Crackle claiming cop, Finding it hard pressed to believe BF saying Jynxie is town (unless in a mason). Not to mention He hasnt been around and doesnt seem to be playing. Just for some pressure to get eyes on Jynxie

If we end up not deciding to lynch Cruelle, I'm definitely open to switching to Jynx over Kryllian. Same with choosing BF.

[Xanjori]

If we end up not deciding to lynch Cruelle, I'm definitely open to switching to Jynx over Kryllian. Same with choosing BF.

I'd like a dissentation as to why, 3000 words minimum, remember to focus on both candidates and present a well rounded argument considering the pro's and con's of a lynch on either.

[shirokitsune]

I'd like a dissentation as to why, 3000 words minimum, remember to focus on both candidates and present a well rounded argument considering the pro's and con's of a lynch on either.

I said Parliamentary Gavels and Discourse at 30 paces, not essays :-P
Pros If they are scum and we lynch them, they die and us townsfolk get closer to a safer world with unicorns and skittles for everyone.
Cons If they are town and we lynch them, we get their toys, but we're not as close to a safer world... So much delay on unicorns and skittles for everyone...

Of course no matter which it is, Pro or Con. If we lynch them, they don't get unicorns or skittles... or beer even.

Sucks to be them then.

----
ok but honestly. Kryllian just doesn't feel right. I can't quite put a finger on it anymore, just general tone, vote choices, and timings. Jynx and BF... I don't trust BF plain and simple, their play style seems to be basically play hard and fast with the rules to try and cause a huge splash which looks to anger all sides to take them out quickly. Jynx... again, doesn't feel right. The lurking doesn't help either and the only commentary we've seen to say their town is from BF....

If we lynch BF and they turn out to be town mason, then that could lead to a good reason to trust jynx being allied with BF for good or ill. If we lynch BF and then turn out to be scum, that again leads me to believe Jynx is scum and BF was trying to protect them and shift blame away from them.

If we lynch Jynx, and they turn out to be town mason then that lends credence to BF's claims. Which would move him more to neutral in my book, though without something concretely helpful and more decisive I don't see BF moving beyond neutral the remainder of this game. If we lynch Jynx and they turn out to be scum, then that means BF was trying to protect them probably in which case the next day's lynch should probably ought to be BF.

... Looks like yeah Jynx or BF lynches will give us some indepth information on whichever one is the survivor.

[Marack]

On top of this Marack is my second choice. As I stated yesterday (before stupidly voting for a dead person) his trust list seemed insane. On top of that his vote today. Today should be pretty clearly about a few people imo, Kryll and Cruelle mainly. A vote on JynxieJ seems so random and not to towns benefit.

We know today is potentially Cruelle/Kryl if we are to believe the claim and want to test it. As many have said, including me, my first game. I likely dont see the subtle hints/reads that you vets see. Most of my trust list is based on feel, my own fucked up opinions of people, and likely some poor recollection of things you vets have said/done in the past (as good of a character read as i remember from you guys).

The vote on JynxieJ isnt random. In fact, right below the vote I said why I was placing it there. With a claimed cop (crackle) and a soft claim (cop or mason from BF) Im having a hard time believing BFs "confirmed town" on Jynxie. He hasnt been playing the game and I want to hear his opinions on the gameday so far. I want to hear what he thinks about yesterdays lynch. I want to hear what he thinks about last nights death. Hell, I want his opinion and read on BF, someone that "vetted" him as town.

With the claim, and lie from Cruelle just to make it to be able to claim... I highly doubt me bringing up a person I find suspicious, will negate the discussion Cruelle's claim will foster.

Not to mention, Lynching me will only stop the voice of an individual with no importance other then his voice/vote...

[Xanjori]

@shirokitsune
I can agree to the reasoning of Jynx/BF situation offering us information if one were to die. But examining Kryllian I haven't really seen him attempt to fully persuade people to vote one way or another. He has offered votes, with some reasoning behind them, but readnig through all his posts I see nothing that offers any real impact.

On top of that you were the person he wanted to lynch yesterday, how do you feel about that?

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The vote on JynxieJ isnt random. In fact, right below the vote I said why I was placing it there. With a claimed cop (crackle) and a soft claim (cop or mason from BF) Im having a hard time believing BFs "confirmed town" on Jynxie. He hasnt been playing the game and I want to hear his opinions on the gameday so far. I want to hear what he thinks about yesterdays lynch. I want to hear what he thinks about last nights death. Hell, I want his opinion and read on BF, someone that "vetted" him as town.

In your opinion then, what is the likely result of a lynch on JynxieJ, and how would it benefit town?

Also has your trust list changed at all since you last posted it?

[Marack]

In your opinion then, what is the likely result of a lynch on JynxieJ, and how would it benefit town?

Also has your trust list changed at all since you last posted it?

Short answer, yes. Trust his has changed since I posted it. Ill be going back through the thread tomorrow after work and re-analyzing my reads and updating it further.



I see the BF/Jynxie situation similar to that of shiro. I dont know how or why BF says he knows Jynx is town, other then the possible mason. Lynching one or the other will validate the other as town. Feels from BF's approach they may be on the same team, but I dont believe BF would do that if they were both scum, but stranger things have happened in these games. Id prefer a Jynx over BF lynch for the sole reason of BF's potential for contribution. I havent seen that effort from Jynx.

Im not opposed to other targets. Jynx is just where most of my suspision is at the moment. Kryl is also near the top of my distrust list.

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on that note, im going to get some sleep. need to get up for work in 4 or 5 hours. Will check on the thread before I leave in the morning.