Retribution is SO BAD AND DULL

[Deleted]

I don't want to say, I AM saying it IS the worst , even worse than Cata launch levels worse.

A point.

No, Cata launch was just terribly tuned, the spec was okay.
This is just shit - Utter shit.

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There is not even remotely a need to move the goalposts to PvE (since we all know how hard Ret dominated PvP during WoD' first season). I am now on your side.

except they didn't actually.
Why?
Because Ret is the most popular spec - at any point in time, when the balance is there, Ret is supposed to be the dominant spec.

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So are you implying that ret will have absolutely no presence in competitive arena?

It basically doesn't now, so, what's the change?

[Avengelyne KT]

No, Cata launch was just terribly tuned, the spec was okay.
This is just shit - Utter shit.

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except they didn't actually.
Why?
Because Ret is the most popular spec - at any point in time, when the balance is there, Ret is supposed to be the dominant spec.

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It basically doesn't now, so, what's the change?

Ret has been fine in WoD just difficult to play and be successful with due to how punishing mistakes are with the class.

It only needs a few tweaks to be great in Legion.

edit: and we definitely were dominant at the start of WoD, but survival hunters and discs were also dominant which contributed to PHP being broken

[Schattenlied]

Ret has been fine in WoD

If you call 100% disallowance into any semi-competent RBG group, being laughed out and told to go holy "fine" then sure, fuckin totally.

I'm fairly confident that will happen again, considering our complete lack of mobility in Legion why would anyone want a melee who can't get to their target in a RBG group?

[Hotmail]

except they didn't actually.
Why?
Because Ret is the most popular spec - at any point in time, when the balance is there, Ret is supposed to be the dominant spec.

According to what? I could say the same of Hunters (especially BM).

Also there was nothing balanced about Season 16 unless you were a Ret, a Rogue or a Disc.

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If you call 100% disallowance into any semi-competent RBG group, being laughed out and told to go holy "fine" then sure, fuckin totally.

I'm fairly confident that will happen again, considering our complete lack of mobility in Legion why would anyone want a melee who can't get to their target in a RBG group?

I've seen Rets in 2100+ RBGs during both Season 17 & 18 - they're rare but they exist and they did fine. If you are known to be competent on your main and aren't playing with control freaks they will let you try out whatever you want.

Fist of Justice is pretty good for target switches (and no, healers are not always in a spot where they can dispel).

[Theholypally]

Is this just a pvp ret thread or what

[Ciric-Wildhammer]

Is this just a pvp ret thread or what

It is an overall complaining thread.

[Deleted]

I really don't get where you people are comming from...

I played my pally yesterday, tried some PvE and some PvP, and it plays quite alright.
It feels like something new for once where you can actually do a mistake that is punishing again.

[Snegovik]

Is this just a pvp ret thread or what

PvP mainly, since from what raiders commented yest, they were in top 3 dps HCF (cuz there mobility is not as vital as in pvp), hence Ret is doing pretty good in PVE atm (cant say it 1st hand, but its what i gathered from others' comments)

[Silver Forte]

I'm enjoying ret more than ever and after reading some of these posts, I'm terrified you whining babies are going to cause Blizzard to undo some of the changes they made.

[Cyrops]

Whatever happened to that talent where you throw a sword and teleport to it?

[Snegovik]

Whatever happened to that talent where you throw a sword and teleport to it?

It has been removed during Alpha.

[Morally Grey Storm]

I'm enjoying ret more than ever and after reading some of these posts, I'm terrified you whining babies are going to cause Blizzard to undo some of the changes they made.

Can you please elaborate on what actually you are enjoying "more than ever"?

[siccora]

i got ashes to ashes now and this speccs now feels better. not that it feels awesome, but WAY better. still dislike the idea behind ret.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Is this just a pvp ret thread or what

If it is, so what?

I really don't get where you people are comming from...

I played my pally yesterday, tried some PvE and some PvP, and it plays quite alright.
It feels like something new for once where you can actually do a mistake that is punishing again.

If you don't really get then how about you read what we are discussing, huh?

Punishing mistakes, yeah right.
As if you could mash anything in any way in WoD and suffer no consequences.
Sure as sure.

[Deleted]

If you don't really get then how about you read what we are discussing, huh?

Punishing mistakes, yeah right.
As if you could mash anything in any way in WoD and suffer no consequences.
Sure as sure.

Quite honestly i've read most of your discussions ever since alpha started, since you are all over the "fething" subforum.
They all run down the same road and after trying the spec yesterday i've came to the conclusion that your opinion just doesn't matter.

So you disagree that choosing between 3 HP generators and 2 finishers where you had a clear picture which one always trumps the other one was less demanding than choosing between 2 HP generators, 1 dmg buffing skill, and at least 3 finishers while also looking out for the debuff-window of mentioned dmg buffing skill?

It's not like you couldn't do horribly wrong in WoD, but there was without a doubt less things to watch out for.

[Deleted]

Quite honestly i've read most of your discussions ever since alpha started, since you are all over the "fething" subforum.
They all run down the same road and after trying the spec yesterday i've came to the conclusion that your opinion just doesn't matter.

So you disagree that choosing between 3 HP generators and 2 finishers where you had a clear picture which one always trumps the other one was less demanding than choosing between 2 HP generators, 1 dmg buffing skill, and at least 3 finishers while also looking out for the debuff-window of mentioned dmg buffing skill?

It's not like you couldn't do horribly wrong in WoD, but there was without a doubt less things to watch out for.

The problem is not how it plays at lvl 100 because you're in the end of an expansion with an abundance of secondary stats, it's how little tools we have and how the ones we can talent into are so extremely problematic and overall bad.

Seal of Light vs Pursuit of Justice (what we had before). Seal of Light is worse in every single way.

Divine Steed vs Speed of Light (what we had before). Divine steed is 100% for 3 sec, Speed of Light was 80 % for 8 sec.

IN ADDITION DIVINE STEED IS ON THE GLOBAL COOLDOWN. I can't fathom how bad these talents are.

I have one personal CD on a 2 min (pseudo 90 sec at lvl 110) cooldown outside of bubble and one hand of protection. THAT'S IT. Tell me now, why should a raid leader bring my ret to a progress raid if not for doing cheat death shenanigans (in which case I have no speed boost whatsoever)

[Deleted]

You guys are pissed off about ret new rotation. Still wondering why you aren't pissed at the removal of self healing & Mobility.

Yesterday I was playing Battlegrounds when healers were kiting me without ever hoping to catch them.

I literally had to run to the edge of the map to catch up to them.

No, I'm pissed off at the lack of offheals, utility and mobility. These idiots don't read the thread and barge in and spew shit about how their rotation "feels alright" at lvl 100 with end-of-expansion gear. I didn't mention the rotation ONCE in my OP, I am pissed at the HORRENDOUS talents and complete lack of mobility and utility.

[Snegovik]

You guys are pissed off about ret new rotation. Still wondering why you aren't pissed at the removal of self healing & Mobility.

Yesterday I was playing Battlegrounds when healers were kiting me without ever hoping to catch them.

I literally had to run to the edge of the map to catch up to them.

Storm and I were complaining about lack of mobility for better part of past 3 month.... instant healing u can keep it, i dont feel like rets need instant healing at this point, just mobility.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Quite honestly i've read most of your discussions ever since alpha started, since you are all over the "fething" subforum.

I am not.
I am not touching Holy threads even with a 10inch long manhood.
Nor do I approach theorycraft or prot threads.

They all run down the same road and after trying the spec yesterday i've came to the conclusion that your opinion just doesn't matter.

Could you elaborate on that ?
This is a fairly bald statement, and pretty baseless at that.
I could say your opinion doesn't matter as well.
But I can actually provide arguements to back me up on that.
Can you?

Am I wrong when I say our mobility is fething awful?
Am I wrong when I say we have no more team utility?
Am I wrong when I say our defensives are not only weak and long-cd but also dispellable?
Am I wrong when I say our healing/offhealing is nonexistant?

So you disagree that choosing between 3 HP generators and 2 finishers where you had a clear picture which one always trumps the other one was less demanding than choosing between 2 HP generators, 1 dmg buffing skill, and at least 3 finishers while also looking out for the debuff-window of mentioned dmg buffing skill?

Yes, I disagree.
And here is why:
1 in WoD, any Ret worth his spot would also manage his utility(which we are happily relieved of in Legion), such as HoSac/HoPurity/SH sniper heals.
Not to mention WoD rotation offered interesting choices regarding our burst CDs: Sanctified Wrath or Zealotry, or.. Divine Purpose that actually procced(due to reasonable proc chance)
2 Legion rotation is set in stone . It's literally static, you start the fight mashing these few buttons in a particular order and you dont stop for the next 10 minutes till the Dragon is dead, then you move on to next Dragon and spam the same few buttons in the same order for the next X minutes. Rinse and repeat.
3 debuff window you are talking about is literally neglected at certain haste levels. These haste levels are pretty reachable by the way.

It's not like you couldn't do horribly wrong in WoD, but there was without a doubt less things to watch out for.

less things?
All the utility, all the constantly shifting, volatile FCFS rotation - that was "less" ?)

[Deleted]

I just started leveling a DK, and I swear a lvl 62 DK has more mobility, better personal defensives and is way more interesting to do damage on than a lvl 110 ret.