Misdirect gone from Survival?!?!

[Aleksej89]

AOE farming has never been the "theme" of survival hunter. I encourage you to look at these different point-in-time descriptions of the hunter class & specs and show me otherwise:
https://web.archive.org/web/20071030...lasses/hunter/
https://web.archive.org/web/20061205...lasses/hunter/
https://web.archive.org/web/20110507...e/class/hunter

Just because a class could do something doesn't mean it was a) intended b) their theme.

AOE killing is the fastest form of outdoor questing that exists in WoW.
All classes got AOE damage but most can't do mass killing because they cant SURVIVE it.

Hunters are renowned for being able to solo masses of monsters as well as ultra tough bosses thanks to Misdirection+Mend spam.
Beast Mastery and Marksmanship specs are still by far the best at SURVIVING such fights.

But the SURVIVAL spec, themed about being awesome in the outdoor, is utterly incapable of doing it and is extremely inferior compared to BM/MM while questing in the outdoors.
Also for a LONG time Survival spec tended to have the best AOE DPS out of all the hunter specs.

@Slicer299

I do agree that no other melee spec can do it.
And obviously losing Glyph of Misdirect is a severe nerf to solo BM/MM.

But i wholeheartedly disagree with Survival being THAT CR*P at it.
It can be slightly worse that BM/MM, but making it utterly UNABLE to do it is awful.

And it is especially awful that the Survival spec can't do it because it would not SURVIVE...

[Typhod]

When I hear the word "survivalist" i dont think about someone who goes head to head with a bunch of mobs and expecting to survive. Im rather thinking about someone who uses smart tactics and such to survive (traps, roots, snares...). I dont think MD is fitting even though it would be nice to still have it.

[Aleksej89]

When I hear the word "survivalist" i dont think aboit someone who goes head to head with a bunch of mobs. Im rather thinking about someone whouses smart tactics and such to survive (traås, root, snares...). I dont think MD is fitting even though it would be nice to still have it.

I agree survival is about smart tactics and out-thinking your opponent.
Spamming Misdirect and Mend was never particularly smart or fun, but it was extremely powerful.

But right now Survival has no way to "out smart" 5-10 mobs at once.
Obviously no other DPS melee spec can, but it is so heart wrenching to see a spec changed from THE BEST to INCAPABLE.

Some middle ground has to be made.
Something has to be given to survival so it can actually survive in the outdoor like BM and MM do.

Or rename the whole spec to something like "Rawr polearms" so at least it would not sound as retarded as "Survival hunter that sucks at surviving the outdoors".

[Dracodraco]

I agree survival is about smart tactics and out-thinking your opponent.
Spamming Misdirect and Mend was never particularly smart or fun, but it was extremely powerful.

But right now Survival has no way to "out smart" 5-10 mobs at once.
Obviously no other DPS melee spec can, but it is so heart wrenching to see a spec changed from THE BEST to INCAPABLE.

Some middle ground has to be made.
Something has to be given to survival so it can actually survive in the outdoor like BM and MM do.

Or rename the whole spec to something like "Rawr polearms" so at least it would not sound as retarded as "Survival hunter that sucks at surviving the outdoors".

Jesus fuck dude, give it a rest. You have a way to "out smart" 5-10 mobs. Know what it's called? Kite the motherfuckers, use your turtle-bubble, and feign dead to fool them (read: Outsmart) them to attack you. What you don't have is a way to *slaughter* 5-10 mobs. That's perfectly fine.
The middle ground is that you either start playing smart, or you respec. Survival has tons of things the spec can do to *survive*. It doesn't have tons of things it can do to *slaughter hordes of mobs*. It's great at surviving the outdoors. It's not great at AOEing down hordes of mobs without taking damage.

[Aleksej89]

Jesus fuck dude, give it a rest. You have a way to "out smart" 5-10 mobs. Know what it's called? Kite the motherfuckers, use your turtle-bubble, and feign dead to fool them (read: Outsmart) them to attack you. What you don't have is a way to *slaughter* 5-10 mobs. That's perfectly fine.
The middle ground is that you either start playing smart, or you respec. Survival has tons of things the spec can do to *survive*. It doesn't have tons of things it can do to *slaughter hordes of mobs*. It's great at surviving the outdoors. It's not great at AOEing down hordes of mobs without taking damage.

If i fight 5+ mobs as MM or BM i can misdirect them to my pet, they will stay there until they die.
Worst case scenario just unsummon the pet and Feign Death/Shadowmeld.
There is no common scenario where a properly played MM/BM will die in an "aoe slaughter" fight.

Survival has two frost traps that some enemies are flat out immune to, and the root might even get broken by accidental damage (like pet clap or DoT).
They also have a long cooldown self heal that is woefully inadequate to deal with the constant face bashing they will be receiving.

Currently Survival hunters can survive the outdoors by avoiding any fight with more than 2 monsters - and even then they often get smacked a lot.
At the same time BM/MM hunters can survive the outdoors by massacring 10+ monsters at once without ever being even close to dying.

That makes no sense and frankly is the opposite of what Survival should be capable of.

Right now any time i want to do any PVE quest or farm in the outdoor i reasonably have to swap to BM or MM.
Playing in the outdoor as Survival is very slow and rather unrewarding, not to mention immersion breaking since i have to be scared of any fight bigger than 2 mobs.

Which is a huge shame since the animations and the spells are actually quite fun.

[Epoch86]

I've read all your posts in this thread and I have a question. Did you originally start playing a Hunter ONLY for the reason that they could pull huge groups and not die? Cause looking at the game now and what they are trying to do, that's called being Over-Powered.

If you've noticed, Blizzard is trying to "Balance" every class. This means that Hunters ability to pull massive groups of mobs and not die, needs to be changed to balance the class with the other classes. And I can guarantee you that they will NOT change all the other classes to be better at pulling massive groups JUST so Hunters can keep doing it. Its a lot easy to just nerf Hunters instead.

I'm guessing that, sooner or later, they'll nerf BM ability to pull large groups. Probably by changing the amount of healing that Mend Pet does. Or by reducing the damage reduction that pets take. This also might apply to Warlocks and the Voidwalker pet.

[Slicer299]

@Slicer299

I do agree that no other melee spec can do it.
And obviously losing Glyph of Misdirect is a severe nerf to solo BM/MM.

But i wholeheartedly disagree with Survival being THAT CR*P at it.
It can be slightly worse that BM/MM, but making it utterly UNABLE to do it is awful.

And it is especially awful that the Survival spec can't do it because it would not SURVIVE...

You are getting way, way, way too hung up on the name of the spec in your ranting here. Not saying that to insult you, but you really are ranting at this point. There was nothing "survival"orientated about the old Survival spec. It had the same utilities as the other specs, such as traps, misdirect, feign death, deterrence, ability to make any pet into a tanking pet, etc. So for all your complaining about "Survival Hunters not having "survival" type abilities now is no different than it was before. They had the traditional Hunter kit, nothing more. But Survival, being a melee class, doesn't, shouldn't, and won't have the traditional Hunter kit. There only real distinction for the old spec was they dealt more magic damage than BM or MM with things like Explosive Shot and Black Arrow.

Also, just because certain classes/specs are great at AoE doesn't mean all classes/specs are or should be great at it too. Especially solo AoE mob pulling. As someone who's played a Hunter since Wrath, I think the entire idea of a melee Hunter is beyond dumb. I truly feel whomever made that call at Blizzard should lose their job. People don't roll Hunters to play a melee class. But your argument doesn't make any sense either. Regardless of the name of the spec, which I demonstrated earlier is irrelavent, Survival Hunters have been designed around control and kiting, via things like their traps, while smacking their targets in the face. They are not meant to pull huge packs of mobs and burst them down so they can quest/level faster.

If that's what you want to do, don't play a Survival Hunter. It may not be what you want, but reality rarely is.

[Matchles]

I agree survival is about smart tactics and out-thinking your opponent.
Spamming Misdirect and Mend was never particularly smart or fun, but it was extremely powerful.

But right now Survival has no way to "out smart" 5-10 mobs at once.
Obviously no other DPS melee spec can, but it is so heart wrenching to see a spec changed from THE BEST to INCAPABLE.

Some middle ground has to be made.
Something has to be given to survival so it can actually survive in the outdoor like BM and MM do.

Or rename the whole spec to something like "Rawr polearms" so at least it would not sound as retarded as "Survival hunter that sucks at surviving the outdoors".

Have you stopped to think that, given the developers appear to disagree with you and nearly everyone on here disagrees with you, perhaps your interpretation of a survival hunter's role and purpose is wrong?

[FelPlague]

you could also have your tanking pet use a aoe taunt... and then it will be fine...

also your avatar fits perfectly

because your being a horrible bad troll

[Deleted]

Haven't played as BM, but did anyone ever level as survival before? BM was always the spec that had the phenomenal ability of effectively letting you afk level.

For the first time in beta I levelled as MM and found it was very difficult to take even 4 level appropriate mobs from 100-109.

At 110 its actually a risk and you have to pay attention even pulling 2 mobs. Some mobs that have any stacking or debuffing effects like some mobs I came across in Stormheim meant 3 of them just melted my tenacity pet as MM in seconds.

As far I was concerned, BM was only the ever one to have that immense ability to just devastate the levelling process. The other specs can do it on a lesser level, it just requires a bit more tact.

[xalenthas]

As santy said above, BM has always been the go to spec for mass mob pulling and getting away with it, even more so once you begin over gearing the outdoor content.

Its all better once Legion drops fully and you begin levelling again; none of the specs can mass AoE farm, even at 110 the mobs will (in most areas) scale to your iLvl

[Nythiz]

Please point me to the trap that allows us to survive fighting 5+ mobs while doing maximum damage to all of them.
Quick pointer: it does not exist.

MM/BM can easily AOE kill 10+ mobs without even being touched.
Survival gets murdered if they dare to use AOE DPS while fighting 3+ mobs.

So survival's solution is to never do AOE killing in solo outdoor content?
We go 1 or 2 mobs at once and do our quests many times slower than MM/BM, simply because we can't SURVIVE solo aoe fights?

Just because your vision of a survival hunter is some kind of godlike melee tank that can't die, doesn't mean that it's the design blizzard and a lot of others have in their mind.

To blizzard (and personally I agree), survival isn't about how well you can hold of countless opponents in combat, but about wit and using the right tools to survive in the wild.
If you're surviving out in the wild, you don't go an jump into a mudpool full of wild boars and try to strangle them bare handed. No you place clever traps and know your limits and strengths.

Survival can't AoE grind very well. So be it, a lot of specs can't (and some of those don't even HAVE the option to respec to something that can).

You keep trying to justify that survival should be able to aoe grind because the spec is named "survival", but beside from the fact you're completely misinterpreting the essence of the word, that's not how it works.

[Katchii]

From a purely lore perspective, would seem pretty difficult to "misdirect" your enemy to think it got hit by someone other than you when you're right in it's face and stabbing it with your weapon vs when you're 40 yards away with a ranged weapon and your pet is right there.

It makes sense, but I understand the frustration from a game play perspective, it does make doing some things more difficult.

[Deleted]

Draco, first I saw your profile picture and thought to myself "hmm isn't that from 2013" but then I saw your signature. Please update m8 it's 2016 now.

[Ahmy]

They wanted to give each class a design, and so survival current design is not the aoe killer.
You either like the current theme and go with it, or dislike it and play another spec or class.

[Dracodraco]

Draco, first I saw your profile picture and thought to myself "hmm isn't that from 2013" but then I saw your signature. Please update m8 it's 2016 now.

Can't be bothered. This thing still updates my progress which means I don't have to edit my signature everytime I kill a boss.
Also PPP is from 2007 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCSGp8Gdpf8 ^_^.

[blackblade]

But the SURVIVAL spec, themed about being awesome in the outdoor, is utterly incapable of doing it and is extremely inferior compared to BM/MM while questing in the outdoors.
Also for a LONG time Survival spec tended to have the best AOE DPS out of all the hunter specs.

By that logic, Outlaw spec'd rogues should be kill on sight by city guards.

[Korkk]

Part of "surviving in the wild" is knowing your strengths and weaknesses, and playing to them.

[threads]

you have to work hard now to survive man. class fantasy is strong

[Gurg]

I swear that i saw exactly the same topic on WoW EU forums in General. EXACTLY THE SAME.

QQ or raging with exactly the same lines on biggest WoW related forums wont help you much mate. Play the game and find constructive feedback and post it, IT MIGHT be seen, more that it wount, but lets be optimistic.

As for survival.. I find far too much Mechanical issues with Harpoon not connecting to target but going on CD in various cases, Pet stupidity, energy (i REFUSE to call it Focus) cost of spells that miss completely. Hatchet toss is ultra slow and Harpoon is overall slowish due to its non-cancelable animations. Way buff is also too short to keep it up quite frequent if i need to move due to boss mechanics.. etc etc

I would also like to see more Disengage being back than misdirect it self.

Now, from what i saw so far, theres ONLY ONE skill that interacts with our pet - Flanking strike. Trough talents one more @lvl100. But beside that our pet is only part of our damage numbers and offtank. Pet doesnt AoE at all, just ST damage so.. they could add some way to interact with our pet and peal off that extra aggro.