BREAKING: Military coup in Turkey in progress! Tanks on the street, police disarmed.

[Darth Primus]

Even if there wasn't a special law for insulting the president, she could still be prisoned for violating the penal code which bans insulting anyone (not just the president) Why would it be okay to insult someone? Is it ok if i insult you? Why dou you think it's okay to call Erdoğan monkey?

Pls stop pretending naive. Do you think erdogan is the only politician around the globe, called a monkey or even worst ? Or is he the one and only human in the globe, everyone should bend the knee to in fear he might get offended ???

[Acidbaron]

This is not true at all. I exclusively avoided being too certain except education. Those teacher were members of the one and the only Gulenist Union, which were exclusively composed of the members of Cemaat. I've also said, numerous times in fact, that this is highly likely to transform into a witch hunt. Go read my post history.

Cemaat were able to do whatever they want up until 2013 I think. Then they clashed with AKP, which AKP emerged victorious. After that point, they had to hide themselves and were not able to make a call. They were not cleaned from the positions, but they were hidden.

The Kemalist officers kicked by Gulenists prosecutors claim this is indeed a Cemaat coup.

The problem is, we won't know what is the truth till it's all done. These statements especially military ones how believable are they considering as pointed out before the amount of control on information even more so when something comes from a military corner.

How do you know that from the education branch of government?

[JohnBrown1917]

You just hate muslims and thats why you think Erdoğan is an evil guy trying to be the emperor of the world In truth, he is not the evil guy your media and leaders wants you to believe.

a Dutch journalist getting arrested in Turkey for criticizing Erdy and the Dutch erdo-turks harassing Gulen supporters(or people they believe to be one) here is totally not a problem, got it.

[Azerul]

Calling someone a monkey (or any other animal name) is not punishable in the vast majority of countries i can think off. Have you ever watched American talk shows? Have you ever watched British parliament lol?

Parliaments are a different story. Parliamenters even praise terrorists in parliament here in Turkey. (HDP)

Are you sure about the rest? So if i call you rat dog or call your officers like that will i leave the town as if like nothing have happened?

- - - Updated - - -

a Dutch journalist getting arrested in Turkey for criticizing Erdy and the Dutch erdo-turks harassing Gulen supporters(or people they believe to be one) here is totally not a problem, got it.

You mean the Gulen supporters who tried to take down the democratically elected Turkish Government?

[JohnBrown1917]

You mean the Gulen supporters who tried to take down the democratically elected Turkish Government?

I've yet to see any proof of that, and they are harassing every turk who does not support Erdy.
Even throwing rocks at daycare centers for fucks sake.


p.s, its not against the law to insult people in Greece(in your response to ulmita).

[Ulmita]

Parliaments are a different story. Parliamenters even praise terrorists in parliament here in Turkey. (HDP)

Are you sure about the rest? So if i call you rat dog or call your officers like that will i leave the town as if like nothing have happened?

You can call cops pigs, or give them the finger and they can't drag you to court. They might bitch slap you but there will be no charges.

[Darth Primus]

We are talking about insulting and if its a crime, yet we havent talked at all about punishment level, which in modern turkey translates to prison...

[Reeve]

Insulting someone is penalized in pretty much every part of the world, including Europe. The problem is the definition of insult, which Erdogan perceives as "every criticism".

Insults aren't punishable in the US.

Slander/Libel is a non-criminal offense here that you can sue for, but you can insult someone all day long with no consequences as long as you aren't lying about them. Even in slander/libel cases, the accuser has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant intentionally lied in a way that caused material damage to the "victim."

[Kuntantee]

The problem is, we won't know what is the truth till it's all done. These statements especially military ones how believable are they considering as pointed out before the amount of control on information even more so when something comes from a military corner.

Not really. We will know. I am checking all kinds of news source, mainstream or not, every day. So far, no one complains about a witch hunt, not even Kemalists. People, including me, are afraid of a witch hunt tho.


Those military statements are not facts, but they are a good start. First, Cemaat prosecutors in juridical system tried to eliminate all kinds of Kemalist army members between 2008 and 2012. Among their targets, there were special army prosecutors/investigators assigned just to clean out the Cemaat within the army. By elimination, I mean slenders and false accusations to put these Kemalists to jail. They achieved their objectives, all of them -- which corresponded to a good portion of pashas and other high-level army officers -- ended up in jail for no reason because the juridical system was already in the control of Cemaat back then. Some of them committed suicide, some died due to sorrow in the jail. Rest seen the hell. They did it together with AKP, but AKP officials claim "we were tricked", "Cemaat tricked us". And people buy it...

The Kemalist soldiers are all ex soldiers. They aren't currently in the army. They were kicked/expelled, via illegal means, by Cemaat. One of them was giving a speech in a mainstream media channel two days ago. He was one of the investigators assigned to find out the Cemaat members within the army before he ended up in jail. He said "I know all the Cemaat members name by name. I was assigned to find them out. I checked the list and it seems compatible to the investigation I conducted earlier".

How do you know that from the education branch of government?

According to some information, the all teachers that were suspended are the members of Cemaatist Union, do you really want me to explain how this union accepts its members? I asked my teacher cousin that if they were kicked, just to understand if this is a witch hunt or not several days ago. He said it is indeed targeting only Cemaat's Union.

- - - Updated - - -

Insults aren't punishable in the US.

Slander/Libel is a non-criminal offense here that you can sue for, but you can insult someone all day long with no consequences as long as you aren't lying about them. Even in slander/libel cases, the accuser has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant intentionally lied in a way that caused material damage to the "victim."

I knew this would pop up. USA is an exception. That's why I used "pretty much". There might be some more exceptions that I am not aware of, but even Europeans make use of similar laws. The problem is not the law itself, but how easily its invoked.

[Azerul]

We are talking about insulting and if its a crime, yet we havent talked at all about punishment level, which in modern turkey translates to prison...

3 to 24 months of prison (which you never actually stay in jail because criminal procedural law)

[DeadmanWalking]

What was amazing about this was the people took to the streets and took down a heavily mechanized army with tanks, they stopped a corrupt government from stealing their freedom and they didn't need AR-15's to do it.

I would even say if the civilians had Ar-15's the soldiers would of considered them a threat and fired back turning a one night failure into a massacre because a crowd with AR-15's is no match for a tank shell.

[Reeve]

I knew this would pop up. USA is an exception. That's why I used "pretty much". There might be some more exceptions that I am not aware of, but even Europeans make use of similar laws. The problem is not the law itself, but how easily its invoked.

Yeah, these laws are incomprehensible to people from the US. It just goes against our values so greatly, both on the political left and the political right that it's entirely unthinkable, and we're always a bit shocked when we discover that countries that we otherwise respect greatly have these laws.

[Ulmita]

I knew this would pop up. USA is an exception. That's why I used "pretty much". There might be some more exceptions that I am not aware of, but even Europeans make use of similar laws. The problem is not the law itself, but how easily its invoked.

Not sure which planet are you living at but here you can call whoever you want a monkey and no legal action can be taken against you. People call others way way way worse things and nothing happens.

Its his majesty that doesn't tolerate to be called a monkey, that's the issue.

[Darth Primus]

What was amazing about this was the people took to the streets and took down a heavily mechanized army with tanks, they stopped a corrupt government from stealing their freedom and they didn't need AR-15's to do it.

I would even say if the civilians had Ar-15's the soldiers would of considered them a threat and fired back turning a one night failure into a massacre because a crowd with AR-15's is no match for a tank shell.

People do not stone to death (or even beheading them) young men following orders while under country's service duty. Only religious fanatics do such gory things.

[Gref]

@Azerul omg didn't know we had akp erdogan backers here

[Kuntantee]

Not sure which planet are you living at but here you can call whoever you want a monkey and no legal action can be taken against you. People call others way way way worse things and nothing happens.

Its his majesty that doesn't tolerate to be called a monkey, that's the issue.

I don't think I've claimed otherwise at any point. Having law doesn't mean it's invoked regularly. A good example is the recent incident in Germany which if you insult presidents, you would be punished etc. No one actually invoked that law, but it was there.

[Darksorrow]

According to some information, the all teachers that were suspended are the members of Cemaatist Union, do you really want me to explain how this union accepts its members? I asked my teacher cousin that if they were kicked, just to understand if this is a witch hunt or not several days ago. He said it is indeed targeting only Cemaat's Union.

Wait...
If every cemaat member everywhere is targeted, is that then a witch hunt or not?
Is being in a political group now a crime?
If I join because my father is also part of the group, am I responsible for what they did even if I knew nothing of it, and my life can be ruined because of this?

Slander/Libel is a non-criminal offense here that you can sue for, but you can insult someone all day long with no consequences as long as you aren't lying about them. Even in slander/libel cases, the accuser has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant intentionally lied in a way that caused material damage to the "victim."

I knew this would pop up. USA is an exception. That's why I used "pretty much". There might be some more exceptions that I am not aware of, but even Europeans make use of similar laws. The problem is not the law itself, but how easily its invoked.

Which europeans have similar laws, that are not like the ones in the US?
I'm hailing from the non-western parts of Europe, and even here you can go insulting a person (and even politicians) all day long, and as long as you do it smart enough, they can't even take action against you for "disturbing the peace".
Sure, the person you attack can sue later on and take you to court, but that can be done in the US just as well.

[Kuntantee]

Wait...
If every cemaat member everywhere is targeted, is that then a witch hunt or not?
Is being in a political group now a crime?
If I join because my father is also part of the group, am I responsible for what they did even if I knew nothing of it, and my life can be ruined because of this?

Yes, you can interpret it that way, but there isn't a solution out of this. The problem with Cemaat is that they take orders from their so-called "imams", and not their institutional superiors. This is why all kinds of officers in education, army and juridical system are being suspended en masse. If you haven't noticed, the conducted a coup recently.

Which europeans have similar laws, that are not like the ones in the US?
I'm hailing from the non-western parts of Europe, and even here you can go insulting a person (and even politicians) all day long, and as long as you do it smart enough, they can't even take action against you for "disturbing the peace".
Sure, the person you attack can sue later on and take you to court, but that can be done in the US just as well.

"If you do it smart" or "can sue you", that's the difference. It needs to be libel or slender in USA, otherwise, it's not punishable as far as I know, unlike in most parts of the world. Reeve also pointed out the same thing. This is different in Europe. The example in Germany is a good one, although it's not invoked or used, the law prohibits people to insult the head of states (I think).

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, these laws are incomprehensible to people from the US. It just goes against our values so greatly, both on the political left and the political right that it's entirely unthinkable, and we're always a bit shocked when we discover that countries that we otherwise respect greatly have these laws.

It's also same when people first find out insult is not punishable in USA. I myself was a bit shocked when I first noticed this in South Park years ago.

[Darksorrow]

Yes, you can interpret it that way, but there isn't a solution out of this. The problem with Cemaat is that they take orders from their so-called "imams", and not their institutional superiors. This is why all kinds of officers in education, army and juridical system are being suspended en masse. If you haven't noticed, the conducted a coup recently.

"Being in a bad crowd" resulting in severe action taken against someone possibly innocent based on a very broad generalization.
I imagine if that many people would have been directly and actively involved, it would have lasted a lot longer.
What could they hope to achieve now?
Everyone is vigilant against a similar attempt, the country is legally in a state of emergency.
Pretty much nothing left for them, the surprise advantage is long gone, and even with it they got nowhere a few terrorists with some bombs couldn't have.

"If you do it smart" or "can sue you", that's the difference. It needs to be libel or slender in USA, otherwise, it's not punishable as far as I know, unlike in most parts of the world. Reeve also pointed out the same thing. This is different in Europe. The example in Germany is a good one, although it's not invoked or used, the law prohibits people to insult the head of states (I think).

You did read my post and noticed that I'm talking about my EU nation having freedom of speech like the one in the states, right?

[Kuntantee]

"Being in a bad crowd" resulting in severe action taken against someone possibly innocent based on a very broad generalization.
I imagine if that many people would have been directly and actively involved, it would have lasted a lot longer.
What could they hope to achieve now?
Everyone is vigilant against a similar attempt, the country is legally in a state of emergency.
Pretty much nothing left for them, the surprise advantage is long gone, and even with it they got nowhere a few terrorists with some bombs couldn't have.


You did read my post and noticed that I'm talking about my EU nation having freedom of speech like the one in the states, right?

I haven't read your law. Your anecdotal evidence is irrelevant. What I know for a fact is that the laws in Europe, in general, is much more restrictive compared to USA when it comes to freedom of speech. In the case of insults, it may not be invoked but laws are still there. If you are not lazy, go find the law you are talking about and enlighten me as well.