The problem is, we won't know what is the truth till it's all done. These statements especially military ones how believable are they considering as pointed out before the amount of control on information even more so when something comes from a military corner.
How do you know that from the education branch of government?
Parliaments are a different story. Parliamenters even praise terrorists in parliament here in Turkey. (HDP)
Are you sure about the rest? So if i call you rat dog or call your officers like that will i leave the town as if like nothing have happened?
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You mean the Gulen supporters who tried to take down the democratically elected Turkish Government?
We are talking about insulting and if its a crime, yet we havent talked at all about punishment level, which in modern turkey translates to prison...
Insults aren't punishable in the US.
Slander/Libel is a non-criminal offense here that you can sue for, but you can insult someone all day long with no consequences as long as you aren't lying about them. Even in slander/libel cases, the accuser has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant intentionally lied in a way that caused material damage to the "victim."
'Twas a cutlass swipe or an ounce of lead
Or a yawing hole in a battered head
And the scuppers clogged with rotting red
And there they lay I damn me eyes
All lookouts clapped on Paradise
All souls bound just contrarywise, yo ho ho and a bottle of rum!
Not really. We will know. I am checking all kinds of news source, mainstream or not, every day. So far, no one complains about a witch hunt, not even Kemalists. People, including me, are afraid of a witch hunt tho.
Those military statements are not facts, but they are a good start. First, Cemaat prosecutors in juridical system tried to eliminate all kinds of Kemalist army members between 2008 and 2012. Among their targets, there were special army prosecutors/investigators assigned just to clean out the Cemaat within the army. By elimination, I mean slenders and false accusations to put these Kemalists to jail. They achieved their objectives, all of them -- which corresponded to a good portion of pashas and other high-level army officers -- ended up in jail for no reason because the juridical system was already in the control of Cemaat back then. Some of them committed suicide, some died due to sorrow in the jail. Rest seen the hell. They did it together with AKP, but AKP officials claim "we were tricked", "Cemaat tricked us". And people buy it...
The Kemalist soldiers are all ex soldiers. They aren't currently in the army. They were kicked/expelled, via illegal means, by Cemaat. One of them was giving a speech in a mainstream media channel two days ago. He was one of the investigators assigned to find out the Cemaat members within the army before he ended up in jail. He said "I know all the Cemaat members name by name. I was assigned to find them out. I checked the list and it seems compatible to the investigation I conducted earlier".
According to some information, the all teachers that were suspended are the members of Cemaatist Union, do you really want me to explain how this union accepts its members? I asked my teacher cousin that if they were kicked, just to understand if this is a witch hunt or not several days ago. He said it is indeed targeting only Cemaat's Union.
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I knew this would pop up. USA is an exception. That's why I used "pretty much". There might be some more exceptions that I am not aware of, but even Europeans make use of similar laws. The problem is not the law itself, but how easily its invoked.
Last edited by Kuntantee; 2016-07-21 at 01:18 PM.
What was amazing about this was the people took to the streets and took down a heavily mechanized army with tanks, they stopped a corrupt government from stealing their freedom and they didn't need AR-15's to do it.
I would even say if the civilians had Ar-15's the soldiers would of considered them a threat and fired back turning a one night failure into a massacre because a crowd with AR-15's is no match for a tank shell.
Yeah, these laws are incomprehensible to people from the US. It just goes against our values so greatly, both on the political left and the political right that it's entirely unthinkable, and we're always a bit shocked when we discover that countries that we otherwise respect greatly have these laws.
'Twas a cutlass swipe or an ounce of lead
Or a yawing hole in a battered head
And the scuppers clogged with rotting red
And there they lay I damn me eyes
All lookouts clapped on Paradise
All souls bound just contrarywise, yo ho ho and a bottle of rum!
Not sure which planet are you living at but here you can call whoever you want a monkey and no legal action can be taken against you. People call others way way way worse things and nothing happens.
Its his majesty that doesn't tolerate to be called a monkey, that's the issue.
@Azerul omg didn't know we had akp erdogan backers here
Wait...
If every cemaat member everywhere is targeted, is that then a witch hunt or not?
Is being in a political group now a crime?
If I join because my father is also part of the group, am I responsible for what they did even if I knew nothing of it, and my life can be ruined because of this?
Which europeans have similar laws, that are not like the ones in the US?
I'm hailing from the non-western parts of Europe, and even here you can go insulting a person (and even politicians) all day long, and as long as you do it smart enough, they can't even take action against you for "disturbing the peace".
Sure, the person you attack can sue later on and take you to court, but that can be done in the US just as well.
Yes, you can interpret it that way, but there isn't a solution out of this. The problem with Cemaat is that they take orders from their so-called "imams", and not their institutional superiors. This is why all kinds of officers in education, army and juridical system are being suspended en masse. If you haven't noticed, the conducted a coup recently.
"If you do it smart" or "can sue you", that's the difference. It needs to be libel or slender in USA, otherwise, it's not punishable as far as I know, unlike in most parts of the world. Reeve also pointed out the same thing. This is different in Europe. The example in Germany is a good one, although it's not invoked or used, the law prohibits people to insult the head of states (I think).
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It's also same when people first find out insult is not punishable in USA. I myself was a bit shocked when I first noticed this in South Park years ago.
"Being in a bad crowd" resulting in severe action taken against someone possibly innocent based on a very broad generalization.
I imagine if that many people would have been directly and actively involved, it would have lasted a lot longer.
What could they hope to achieve now?
Everyone is vigilant against a similar attempt, the country is legally in a state of emergency.
Pretty much nothing left for them, the surprise advantage is long gone, and even with it they got nowhere a few terrorists with some bombs couldn't have.
You did read my post and noticed that I'm talking about my EU nation having freedom of speech like the one in the states, right?
Last edited by Darksorrow; 2016-07-21 at 03:03 PM.
I haven't read your law. Your anecdotal evidence is irrelevant. What I know for a fact is that the laws in Europe, in general, is much more restrictive compared to USA when it comes to freedom of speech. In the case of insults, it may not be invoked but laws are still there. If you are not lazy, go find the law you are talking about and enlighten me as well.