The voice of N'Zoth confirmed (Blackfathom Deeps)

[Captain Douchebag]

for gods sake, the faceless ones are echoes.
and they are dead.
only because they can whisper to you doesnt mean they are alive.
if we go by that logic then our gul'dan is also alive because his skull whispers to its wielder too.

But muh headcanon though!

Hehe...now try exchanging the names of the gods with "legacy servers"

So... Legacy servers and legacy servers are dead? Am I doing this right?

[Crillam]

First of all, N'Zoth isn't the only surviving Old God on Azeroth. The only Old God that is dead is Y'shaarj. The others were only beaten back for the time being. They can (and probably will) return.

Also, there are five Old Gods on Azeroth: C'thun, Yogg-Saron, N'Zoth, Y'shaarj, and a fifth that we do not know much of anything about yet. There's a lot of unexplained little things in the storyline, and a whole lot of speculation. But we won't know what's going to happen until it happens.

Personally, I'd like to see some kind of big plot reveal at the end of Legion that states that the Burning Legion re-invading was part of the Old Gods' plans all along. They knew the servants of the Legion would attempt to use the Tomb of Sargeras as a portal through which the masters of the Legion could finally enter Azeroth, and they mean to use it for themselves to enter back into the world. It makes sense that they might do that, anyway. It's said that the Old Gods are incredibly intelligent, and operate through manipulation and schemes that span millenia. Hell, C'thun and Yogg'Saron may have even planned to have their remaining physical bodies (which were under imprisonment) be destroyed so they could come back through the Tomb of Sargeras.

No there are only 4 old gods, the Chronicles confirmed that. Y'shaarj is the only old god that got ripped out from Azeroth and that is why the Titans did not interfere anymore, because they did not want to hurt the Titan spirit Azeroth. So this theory that killing an old god=doom for the planet is false, only if you rip it out you doom the planet. Even now with Legion the shadow priest artifact Xal'atath, Blade of the Black Empire says that the other three old gods, which were stronger is now DEAD and the weakest one, N'zoth is the one only alive.

There is also a speculation that Legion will be like WoD, we go in and think that TBL is the big threat, we see some old gods influence like nagas and all that is happening and being said in Azuna.
Then mid xpack more old god influence will start to show. I just hope that N'zoth wont be the mid tier boss or even last tier. I want 1 whole xpack to deal with him.

[Deleted]

You're correct that that they aren't alive, but you're wrong about them being dead. That's the whole point of the Old Gods (if any of you are familiar with Lovecraft), they exist outside the cycle of life and death. When Cho'gall returns to C'thun after his defeat, he tries to reanimate him, and he even whispers to Cho'gall. The Yogg whispering is the same concept after Yogg's defeat, or Y'shaarj and the Sha after he was torn apart by Aman'thul. They're not dead, but not alive, and thus their influence continues to linger in the form of corruption, whispers and such. In theory, with time they might be able to regenerate themselves or regain some sort of power, at least it is hinted so in the Cho'gall story. Something that is truly dead cannot whisper or conjure echoes and what not. The Skull of Gul'dan is kind of the same, as in his vast powers, though mostly absorbed by Illidan by now, still lingers or did linger in the skull, though I'm unsure if it is still present in the skull as of current day WoW.

But yeah, you might say they are dead dead, but my point is that their power, like Gul'dan's, still lingers.

[shockzine]

yeah, the actual act of ripping Y'shaarj out of the planet is what created the well of eternity. such a large wound, the titan's feared if they continued it would kill the young titan. Instead they created avatars and champions in the forms of the keepers to wage their war for them against the old gods and their elemental armies. then trolls found i, became night elves.... blah blah tried ot summon sargarus, blew the world up, and we have the map of today.

However, dead doesn't mean dead in our sense. Their "dead" bodies still hold tremendous power. look at what Y'shaarj caused in pandaria many thousands of millenia after he was killed with the 7 sha(anger, dispair, doubt, fear .hatred, pride and violence) and countless lesser sha. that power wasn't finally drained until we defeated garrosh in SoO after he sapped the last remaining energy from his still beating heart....a heart that was still beating millenia after he was "dead".

there is plenty of space in the lore for n'zoth to free himself from his bindings, (which he may have done already, thanks to the naga) and then absorb the remaining essence of the other old gods to become the "new" god, Super N'zoth!

[Qualia]

Holy..., at this rate, I'm just going to assume that people who claims the Old Gods aren't dead are incapable of reading or just outright trolling. The creators - in other words, Blizzard - said they are dead multiple times. It doesn't matter what you (or we for that matter) think - Blizzard said the Old Gods are dead, so they are. This actually died down for a while, I wonder why the headcanons are raising their heads again now.

Claiming that their powers still linger, they can still whispers and can be revived is another matter. Yes, they can do all that. That doesn't mean they aren't dead, however. Other dead non-OG beings have proved to be able to do the same. If you claim that those were the sign the Old Gods aren't dead (or even if you want to make it out as "neither dead nor alive"), then you may as well apply that to every powerful WoW characters except dead demons.

[A Chozo]

But then, there's the thing in the Well of Eternity instance:



Which is twice as creepy imo.

Do Old Gods keep only one voice?
Maybe the Blackfathom one is a minion, but it's labeled as Old God in the files for easy organization.

[Kufell]

Has it ever been concluded who the voice was in the Well of Eternity instance was? We have more "Old God" voices than actual old gods at this point.

Seems more likely to me that the voice at WoE was N'Zoth, due to his involvement with how things played out there.

[Al Gorefiend]

Yogg-Saron and C'thun have been confirmed to be dead multiple times. Their deaths is one of the causes of the Cataclysm.


Chronicle says there are only four.




N'zoth is still imprisoned according to Xal'atath and is the weakest Old God. Rather unlikely.

Dead but not gone for good. They don't die conventional deaths

- - - Updated - - -

As much as I find the Old Gods super boring (tentacle rape monsters making people go evil because reasons)... I would welcome it at this point just to really rub the fact that all the Old Gods are dead, except for N'zoth, in the faces of certain posters. The ones with Old God boners (tentacles?) and an enormous amount of headcannon. Blizzard has stated multiple times, pretty clearly, that they are all dead dead, except for N'zoth.

I only have a boner for them not being really dead because they went out like major chumps. C'thun barely put up a fight and Yogg died in a puddle of his own piss. For being these powerful beings - they weren't. I feel the C'thun fight was created before Blizz had their lore in place of what they actually wanted to do with them.

[Raetary]

But then, there's the thing in the Well of Eternity instance

"the thing" are the old gods protecting the dragon soul.

[A Chozo]

"the thing" are the old gods protecting the dragon soul.

How many? All the three in a joined creepy voice?

The mistery.

[Selastan]

c'thun and yogg are dead.
deader as dead.
dead dead.
it's been confirmed multiple times.
gods sake, how many times do we have to repeat that shit till someone gets it?
blizz says they are dead.
so they are dead.
end of story.

Ignore the fact that even Y'Shaarj, the deadest of all the Old Gods, still had his consciousness. He whispered through Xal''atoh, meaning all he needed was a physical form to return to. You also need to forget that C'Thun would be alive and well today if Cho'gall had his way. They are dead, of course. But death doesn't really mean much to them.

[Qualia]

Ignore the fact that even Y'Shaarj, the deadest of all the Old Gods, still had his consciousness. He whispered through Xal''atoh, meaning all he needed was a physical form to return to. You also need to forget that C'Thun would be alive and well today if Cho'gall had his way. They are dead, of course. But death doesn't really mean much to them.

The thing is that, as you said, they are dead.

Some people just like to claim that the Old Gods are still alive, or we just destroyed their physical manifestation of them, or similar things, trying to make the Old Gods out to be more special / more powerful than they really are. However, fact is that everything that they could do after dead could also be done by other beings in WoW as well. We have clear evidence of that. Whispering? MU Gul'dan - a normal Orc, clearly not as powerful as our heroes currently and had remarkable connection with the Void (that we know of), destroyed by some random demons and then had his skull being used as a magic tool for years. He could still talk very well and actively have a conversation back and forth for that matter (unlike the dead Old Gods who, so far, only shown to have one-sided whispers). Khadgar even explained the phenomenon in "The Last Guardian". Can be resurrected when a piece of your body is left? Medivh did that too - his body was stabbed by Khadgar, decapitated by Lothar, then burned inside out to the point that only skin left by Sargeras' spirit. Didn't prevent Aegwynn from reviving him as new. Heck, even random powerless farmer could be brought back easily during the Blood Knight initiation ritual. It's just not that hard.

Sure, as you said, death doesn't really mean much to them (although, I'd say death still hinder their plans a great deal). However, it's less because they are special, and more because - if we are to think about it - death doesn't really mean much to *anyone* in WoW (other than the demons who got their souls destroyed in Nether, perhaps.). You can always be brought back if someone prepare a proper ritual. You can left your presence behind, bits and pieces of your own mind, if you focused enough. With the Chronicle, they even canonicalize the corpse run. At this rate, the only drawback is that dead beings can't come back to live by themselves, while the not-dead-yet demons can.

[Deleted]

One mistake in that. N'zoth isn't the last surviving old god, unless Blizzard retconned things. We can only defeat and weaken old gods into an unconscious state, but we can't kill them.

[Qualia]

One mistake in that. N'zoth isn't the last surviving old god, unless Blizzard retconned things. We can only defeat and weaken old gods into an unconscious state, but we can't kill them.

!
Nice headcanon, I suppose?

[Duravian]

N'zoth Deserve an entire Expansion, to end all the OLD god Conflict once and for all.
unless Blizzard decided to add one more old god, or we fight an old god on other planet.

How else are they going to "corrupt" everything and make all their villains?

[Qualia]

How else are they going to "corrupt" everything and make all their villains?

Screw the mass produced disposable parasites, just give us the Dark Titan(s) after we defeat Sargeras.

[Thrif]

c'thun and yogg are dead.
deader as dead.
dead dead.
it's been confirmed multiple times.
gods sake, how many times do we have to repeat that shit till someone gets it?
blizz says they are dead.
so they are dead.
end of story.

Holy..., at this rate, I'm just going to assume that people who claims the Old Gods aren't dead are incapable of reading or just outright trolling. The creators - in other words, Blizzard - said they are dead multiple times.

Yeah, because it's not like Blizzard are known for retconning or anything...

Seriously, "Because Blizzard said so" really isn't as strong an arguement as you're pretending it is. The mere fact that the last HS expansion was about Old Gods exclusively is a bigger tell than anything Blizz says - either because they are setting up for N'zoth or because they have plans with all of 'em.

[Qualia]

Yeah, because it's not like Blizzard are known for retconning or anything...

Seriously, "Because Blizzard said so" really isn't as strong an arguement as you're pretending it is. The mere fact that the last HS expansion was about Old Gods exclusively is a bigger tell than anything Blizz says - either because they are setting up for N'zoth or because they have plans with all of 'em.

I said this in another thread as well - everyone know that Blizzard are known for changing their lore over time. However, that is NOT a good argument to ignore the fact or present your theories as facts.
We are discussing about current lore, neither past nor future lore. As of the Old Gods, for the time being, they are dead - confirmed by Blizzard. I'm very open to changing my points and you can bet that I'd be correcting people who say the OG are dead when Blizzard state that they are alive in the future (if they are going to). However, at very least, it's not happening yet, so let's stick to current fact. Otherwise, can I claim that "hey, Sargeras is actually an immortal space bunny with the soul of a Naaru and the core of titan, now infused with Fel. His past life was actually a Light Lord that was brother with Illidan's past life" just because "Blizzard are known for retconning"? It might become true (well, a 0.00001% chance if the devs go mad I guess), but it surely isn't canon for now (and I wouldn't doubt that everyone will be calling me a retard if I ever post so).

Also, using HS expansion as an argument is really weak. Did we get any plan for Naxx or MC when those expansions were released? Sure, Blizzard is clearly setting up for N'Zoth - and I believe he will be a boss during Legion, or the next Naga / void related expansion , but that doesn't mean other OGs are still alive and the HS expansion is not a good indication either.

[Thrif]

I said this in another thread as well - everyone know that Blizzard are known for changing their lore over time. However, that is NOT a good argument to ignore the fact or present your theories as facts.
We are discussing about current lore, neither past nor future lore. As of the Old Gods, for the time being, they are dead - confirmed by Blizzard. I'm very open to changing my points and you can bet that I'd be correcting people who say the OG are dead when Blizzard state that they are alive in the future (if they are going to). However, at very least, it's not happening yet, so let's stick to current fact. Otherwise, can I claim that "hey, Sargeras is actually an immortal space bunny with the soul of a Naaru and the core of titan, now infused with Fel. His past life was actually a Light Lord that was brother with Illidan's past life" just because "Blizzard are known for retconning"? It might become true (well, a 0.00001% chance if the devs go mad I guess), but it surely isn't canon for now (and I wouldn't doubt that everyone will be calling me a retard if I ever post so).

Sure. I'm just saying that it's a bit short-sighted to present "Blizzard said so" as the most solid piece of never-changing proof ever, when we're talking about a company that's known for Retconning literally everything as well as caring so little about their own lore that they throw in an alternate timeline expansion just because they felt like it. If they felt like bringing the Old Gods back they would do so without blinking twice. I'm sure they would've said Nefarian was dead, for example, before getting the urge to bring him back in Cata.

But yeah I guess you have a point. Since they're as spontaneous as they are, we can't really do much more than to go with the current lore.

Also, using HS expansion as an argument is really weak. Did we get any plan for Naxx or MC when those expansions were released? Sure, Blizzard is clearly setting up for N'Zoth - and I believe he will be a boss during Legion, or the next Naga / void related expansion , but that doesn't mean other OGs are still alive and the HS expansion is not a good indication either.

Old Gods is the first expansion where they have revealed something new, in N'zoth. Granted, most likely it's just a setup for N'zoth and they included the other gods to make a theme out of it. But if they were bringing them back, if only in spirit or throwback, it'd be a good way to do it.

But yeah, I'm not in any shape or form claiming that the Old God HS expansion is evidence for them not being dead. Just that I find it stronger evidence than "Blizz said so."

[Selastan]

The thing is that, as you said, they are dead.

Some people just like to claim that the Old Gods are still alive, or we just destroyed their physical manifestation of them, or similar things, trying to make the Old Gods out to be more special / more powerful than they really are. However, fact is that everything that they could do after dead could also be done by other beings in WoW as well. We have clear evidence of that. Whispering? MU Gul'dan - a normal Orc, clearly not as powerful as our heroes currently and had remarkable connection with the Void (that we know of), destroyed by some random demons and then had his skull being used as a magic tool for years. He could still talk very well and actively have a conversation back and forth for that matter (unlike the dead Old Gods who, so far, only shown to have one-sided whispers). Khadgar even explained the phenomenon in "The Last Guardian". Can be resurrected when a piece of your body is left? Medivh did that too - his body was stabbed by Khadgar, decapitated by Lothar, then burned inside out to the point that only skin left by Sargeras' spirit. Didn't prevent Aegwynn from reviving him as new. Heck, even random powerless farmer could be brought back easily during the Blood Knight initiation ritual. It's just not that hard.

Sure, as you said, death doesn't really mean much to them (although, I'd say death still hinder their plans a great deal). However, it's less because they are special, and more because - if we are to think about it - death doesn't really mean much to *anyone* in WoW (other than the demons who got their souls destroyed in Nether, perhaps.). You can always be brought back if someone prepare a proper ritual. You can left your presence behind, bits and pieces of your own mind, if you focused enough. With the Chronicle, they even canonicalize the corpse run. At this rate, the only drawback is that dead beings can't come back to live by themselves, while the not-dead-yet demons can.

Resurrection of mortals is pretty damned difficult in the lore, actually. Unless certain preparations are taken (Like the Thunder King,) it is next to impossible. The type of resurrection healers can do isn't actually resurrection, its resuscitation. They heal the wound and attempt to restart the heart. Necromantic resurrection does terrible damage to the soul of the resurrected, if you can even bring back the soul in the first place. Most necromantic resurrection is just reanimating a body as a puppet with shadow magic.

As for Old Gods, its a bit...different. They do die just like mortals do, but for them there is no afterlife. The soul isn't attached to the body, since the body is only a small piece of them. Like the bit of the iceberg that's above the surface. Or a better analogy, like a giant being poking its finger into our universe, we just severed the finger. It still has more fingers.