Unnarmed man lying on ground with arms up shot by police

[Justpassing]

So...laying on the ground begging for life isn't enough? Damn.

[Ivanstone]

I'm not a racist or a terrorist, but, thanks for the invite.

BLM does not require you to be a racist or terrorist, just an admission that under-trained cops with too much military equipment is bad for an orderly society.

I'm just overjoyed that you've come to this conclusion. Sorry, that the other fascists on this forum might start calling your a hypocritical traitor.

[Cyberowl]

Let the police do their job you won't risk getting shot.

I don't trust a police man who shoots someone with his hands in the air to do his job, though. Your statements go way beyond ridiculous. Do you guys actually support incompetence in your police force over there? What the hell.

[Svifnymr]

I've been threatened with tasers and physical force in similar situations. A colleague had SWAT (not quite SWAT but no ordinary police response) surround him at gunpoint when he was trying to descalate a situation where a client was have a violent episode and a neighbor called the police. Sad thing is that the neighbor knew the client and knew of the clients behavior, the neighbor called because they were refused a job with the agency we worked for.

I don't know North Miami directly, though I'm near enough to wave, but most of the cops around here would know that there was a group home of this sort in that area and should be aware of the potential patients from such a place. Might even have dealt with them before.

And, of course, the neighbors may HATE that place being there and one of them might have called 911 with the "he has a gun" call to try to build support for removing the place from 'his" backyard. (Assuming they were at a group home as I read, could be wrong.)

Scariest situations are when you have to call the police for assistance because it means it's a violent situation and too many officers are trigger happy I had a client bite an officer and at the hospital he said thank God (something along those lines) that he got the call and that he had history with us because another officer probably would have shot the man who was going through a chemical imbalance after his mother had his meds changed because she felt "they weren't doing anything for him".

Long story short, cop needs to get fired. The PD needs to be under investigation and have their training programs reevaluated, and it's never okay for a cop to say "I don't know" after discharging their weapon.

One of the dialogues that has been out there recently is this idea that cops should be dealing with the mentally ill at ALL. As you say, a violent mentally ill person shouldn't be shot, but I mean he's going to need to be subdued/ medicated. Is that really the job of police officers? Should there be some sort of system for EMS/ Orderlies to respond to something like this?

[Tinykong]

BLM does not require you to be a racist or terrorist, just an admission that under-trained cops with too much military equipment is bad for an orderly society.

Certainly seems that way to me given how a lot of the members chant racist messages and commit terrorist acts.

I'm just overjoyed that you've come to this conclusion. Sorry, that the other fascists on this forum might start calling your a hypocritical traitor.

I didn't just come to this conclusion. I've been calling for an end to the 1033 program for many years. The militarized police has nothing to do with racism or BLM, it's a problem for everyone.

[Svifnymr]

BLM does not require you to be a racist or terrorist, just an admission that under-trained cops with too much military equipment is bad for an orderly society.

BLM is a hashtag. It is not an organization that has a large membership that mobilizes, it has social media posts to attract people to an area. They use this decentralization to publicly decry things that happen in their name that might make them look bad, while also claiming the things they'd like to.

[Orange Joe]

Dealing with a suicidal man with a gun call.

And they deal with him by trying to shoot him... Clearly they are the only that know how to handle it right.

[Svifnymr]

And they deal with him by trying to shoot him... Clearly they are the only that know how to handle it right.

We have these big iguana's down here. One of the stores near me, a lizard got in, so they called the police. When the cops arrived, they told them to call animal control, but they didn't want to because that costs money. The cops said 'sorry, not our job" and left. The point, is that cops probably shouldn't be dispatched to every situation they are sent to. Unless there's criminal behavior, it's not the cops. We also have unarmed/ non-leo "Service Aids" down here that do traffic stuff, they should really have a better system to measure responses to actions.

[AndaliteBandit]

And they deal with him by trying to shoot him... Clearly they are the only that know how to handle it right.

They didn't even shoot him. They shot his caretaker.

[oplawlz]

99% of the time I side with the police . . . this doesn't happen to be one of those times. Wrong is wrong, dude should be charged and fired.

[Ivanstone]

BLM is a hashtag. It is not an organization that has a large membership that mobilizes, it has social media posts to attract people to an area. They use this decentralization to publicly decry things that happen in their name that might make them look bad, while also claiming the things they'd like to.

Or its just a big group of people who think Cop-On-Black crime is bad. Better training and less AR-15's would yield less dead people (black one's especially). Also proper taxation and funding so they don't turn into predators constantly on the hunt for ticket money.

Whilst I take a dim view of the average libertarian, I don't assume that they are a gaggle of Tim McVeigh's and Ted Kaczynski's looking to blow up things they don't like. I generally prefer them when they act like the Penn Gillette's and Peter Bagge's of the world.

[Crillam]

Oh Murica, such a great country.
Cops that are shooting and even some times killing innocent people.
Such justice.

[Witchblade77]

Generally an accident is not a criminal matter, unless it's the Florida law about not leaving a gun accessible to a minor. It's a civil matter. The guy was hit in his leg, the video was released to the press by his lawyer.



All that seems to be a training issue, doesn't it? Though again, you're assuming that they harmed someone intentionally due to a failure to recognize a mental disability. I'm assuming it was an accident since they shot the guy on the ground in the leg.

1. negligent discharge - which is what it was IS in fact a criminal matter. civilians get prosecuted for it in criminal court.
2. an accident doesn't excuse the endangerment. I'm not assuming that he harmed someone intentionally, however - negligence is STILL negligence. aka, see above

what I think happened is that they failed to recognize disability, had no idea how to deal with it AND had no idea how to handle firearms safely. I'm guessing that if his finger was OFF the trigger until he knew beyond any shadow of a doubt that he or people around him were in danger? he wouldn't have accidentally squeezed that trigger.

the other reply to me actualy shows that when training DOES get improved, these types of accidents become nonexistent. unfortunately, the trained has not been improved on a countrywide basis. and THAT is an issue. which still doesn't excuse negligence and reckless endangerment. what if his bullets hit more than one person? what if other bystanders were hit? you do NOT discharge your firearm, cop or no cop, unless there is absolutely no other course of action left.

[Kasierith]

I like all the claims that they shot because "can't be too careful because he might have a gun" when the person they decided to shoot was face down hands up and empty.

[Deleted]

1. negligent discharge - which is what it was IS in fact a criminal matter. civilians get prosecuted for it in criminal court.
2. an accident doesn't excuse the endangerment. I'm not assuming that he harmed someone intentionally, however - negligence is STILL negligence. aka, see above

what I think happened is that they failed to recognize disability, had no idea how to deal with it AND had no idea how to handle firearms safely. I'm guessing that if his finger was OFF the trigger until he knew beyond any shadow of a doubt that he or people around him were in danger? he wouldn't have accidentally squeezed that trigger.

the other reply to me actualy shows that when training DOES get improved, these types of accidents become nonexistent. unfortunately, the trained has not been improved on a countrywide basis. and THAT is an issue. which still doesn't excuse negligence and reckless endangerment. what if his bullets hit more than one person? what if other bystanders were hit? you do NOT discharge your firearm, cop or no cop, unless there is absolutely no other course of action left.

Have they confirmed that only one officer fired yet? It would look even worse than it is already if one accidentally fired and then another reacted by firing without proper judgement.

[PACOX]

I don't know North Miami directly, though I'm near enough to wave, but most of the cops around here would know that there was a group home of this sort in that area and should be aware of the potential patients from such a place. Might even have dealt with them before.

And, of course, the neighbors may HATE that place being there and one of them might have called 911 with the "he has a gun" call to try to build support for removing the place from 'his" backyard. (Assuming they were at a group home as I read, could be wrong.)



One of the dialogues that has been out there recently is this idea that cops should be dealing with the mentally ill at ALL. As you say, a violent mentally ill person shouldn't be shot, but I mean he's going to need to be subdued/ medicated. Is that really the job of police officers? Should there be some sort of system for EMS/ Orderlies to respond to something like this?

I don't know about other states but Florida has the Baker Act. Maybe cities should have the local hospital that processes patients under the Baker Act to come out since they are actually allowed to get more hands on and medicate an individual who is having an incident. 9/10 times they are (and should, opposed to jail) going to sent to the hospital anyway. Cut out the middle man once the situation has been properly accessed. That's if they need to be hospitalized. And if an arrest or hospitalization isn't necessary, some cops try to make you feel like shit. Though I've ran into a lot if good police who do in fact out to assist you, look out for the well being of the client, and do their best to make sure everyone goes home safe.

[triplesdsu]

Obviously there is a lot missing during the gap in filming, but this looks bad. Hell, if I tried to think of the best scenario for why they shot, it would be that they missed the other guy but even that is still bad. The department definitely needs to release some more information as this is one of the worse ones ive seen. Im just glad the guy survived.

- - - Updated - - -

1. negligent discharge - which is what it was IS in fact a criminal matter. civilians get prosecuted for it in criminal court.
2. an accident doesn't excuse the endangerment. I'm not assuming that he harmed someone intentionally, however - negligence is STILL negligence. aka, see above

what I think happened is that they failed to recognize disability, had no idea how to deal with it AND had no idea how to handle firearms safely. I'm guessing that if his finger was OFF the trigger until he knew beyond any shadow of a doubt that he or people around him were in danger? he wouldn't have accidentally squeezed that trigger.

the other reply to me actualy shows that when training DOES get improved, these types of accidents become nonexistent. unfortunately, the trained has not been improved on a countrywide basis. and THAT is an issue. which still doesn't excuse negligence and reckless endangerment. what if his bullets hit more than one person? what if other bystanders were hit? you do NOT discharge your firearm, cop or no cop, unless there is absolutely no other course of action left.

Negligent is intentional. Accidental obviously isnt. You dont get to have an accident in this situation though. It's one thing while you're loading weapons or at the range, but when you're pointing weapons at people you need to know wtf you're doing. Finger off the trigger until you intent to shoot, etc. With all the anti-cop shit we have now, we dont need idiots doing stupid shit right now.

[lockedout]

Lying on the ground with your hands up while explaining that you're an unarmed mental health professional caring for the nearby autistic man who's armed only with a toy truck is about as non-threatening a position as he could possibly take.

No watching from the sidelines where the police are is the most non threatening position.

[Orange Joe]

They didn't even shoot him. They shot his caretaker.

There was a key word I put in there that covered that. :P

[Sunseeker]

Certainly seems that way to me given how a lot of the members chant racist messages and commit terrorist acts.

Oh stop throwing around the word terrorist like anyone gives a damn.