[Beta] Havoc Discussion

[Vanyali]

shut up, im not an idiot!

I'm not going to say you are, but you know my true feelings of your idiocy!

[enchiridion]

I'm not going to say you are, but you know my true feelings of your idiocy!

/cry :'(

[Phanex]

/cry :'(

Still a better love story than Twilight.

[Vanyali]

/cry :'(

*patpat*

We can't all be as cool as Linkitteh.

[Hexxidecimal]

Ok, I leveled my DH to lvl 104 (dont wanna spoil more) and I noticed if I use anything else except Demons Bite/Chaos Strike on single target its a DPS loss. Was sure I should use Eye Beam on every CD even on single target. Dont have yet momentum so fel rush can be hit and miss depends how big is the boss hitbox and how much time I need to go back to melee.

I was testing few classes in beta and when I look in recount it looks really strange when on dumy most builds deal damage with like 10-12 abilities while my DH with like 6-8 and its so much only because meta change chaos strike name to annihilation and Im starting to use blade dance (death sweep in meta?):/

Does it get better with unlocked artifact? Or its only chaos spam build or fel rush/momentum build?

It does change. There are a number Artifact Talents/Talents that make Eyebeam good in a single target rotation, as well as Blade Dance/Death Sweep. Anguish of the Deceiver and Chaos Vision both help quite a bit the Eye Beam department, also Demonic makes pressing Eye Beam worth it, for no other reason than to get a small Meta window. Of course First Blood helps with single target damage of Blade Dance, although many say that Bloodlet is better, I haven't tested them specifically enough to know for sure but on Paper, Bloodlet looks better. Throw Glaive being ranged means it can naturally have more up time especially on very mobile fights.

Early on in Dungeons I only push Eyebeam or Blade Dance when it's an AoE situation, otherwise I stick to Bite/Strike and Throw Glaive (if you have gone with Bloodlet). For leveling though I still use Blade Dance a bunch but that is because I try to always pull at least 2-3 mobs. Blade Dance provides AoE of course but also damage avoidance.

I am not expert btw, these are just things I came up with mostly from just playing and not really putting my rotation through the ringer in solid tests.

[Hangrah]

I hope blizzard nerf demon blades they are too OP, i did some dummy testing for around 10 minutes non stop, and with FM, Prepared, Fel Blade, Momentum, MotG and CB i did 130k, with more APM, more buttons to push, i bit harder but more fun, and with FM, DB, Bloodlet, Momentum, MotG and CB i did 168k but more static and definitely less fun.

[enchiridion]

I hope blizzard nerf demon blades they are too OP, i did some dummy testing for around 10 minutes non stop, and with FM, Prepared, Fel Blade, Momentum, MotG and CB i did 130k, with more APM, more buttons to push, i bit harder but more fun, and with FM, DB, Bloodlet, Momentum, MotG and CB i did 168k but more static and definitely less fun.

I don't think we can call this a fair comparison, you switched from Felblade to Bloodlet- a pretty significant increase, im not saying that DB DOESNT need to get nerfed again, but if you are going to try to provide evidence should prolly make sure its irrefutable.

[chematus]

I hope blizzard nerf demon blades they are too OP, i did some dummy testing for around 10 minutes non stop, and with FM, Prepared, Fel Blade, Momentum, MotG and CB i did 130k, with more APM, more buttons to push, i bit harder but more fun, and with FM, DB, Bloodlet, Momentum, MotG and CB i did 168k but more static and definitely less fun.

"This talent seems boring to me, it should be nerfed"
Nice logic

[ChakanDH]

I'll admit, once upon a time I to was a detractor of Demon blades, but after using it in certain builds it definitely does have it's place. In fact my current go-to build uses it, and having to spam demons bite would feel out of place.

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

I'll admit, once upon a time I to was a detractor of Demon blades, but after using it in certain builds it definitely does have it's place. In fact my current go-to build uses it, and having to spam demons bite would feel out of place.

What else does your DB go- to build have in it? I'm assuming at least Felblade.

[ChakanDH]

What else does your DB go- to build have in it? I'm assuming at least Felblade.

Nope, not a fan of Felblade to be honest. It's this -

Fel mastery
Demon blades
Bloodlet
Soul Rend
Momentum
MotG
Fel Barrage

I've found by removing the bulk of the abilities that actually use fury, it's a lot easier to focus the big fury chunks you get from demon blades into a whole bunch of chaos strikes under the momentum buff. Throw in cycling of constant glaives, 5 stack barrages and its a lot of fun!!

Just to add to my reasoning, it also feels like you're filling enough globals with the above abilities that to be using demons bite as a filler is somewhat redundant and would ultimately result in lower fury generation/dps

[enchiridion]

"This talent seems boring to me, it should be nerfed"
Nice logic

not quite articulated properly, but the idea here is that a talent that generates a more passive playstyle shouldnt be rewarded as much as an active playstyle.

[Drahkais]

"This talent seems boring to me, it should be nerfed"
Nice logic

"We also agree the talent shouldn't be the highest stationary DPS option on its row due to its passivity, and it will be brought into line for the row."

[Deleted]

Not again the discussion about DB. They already told us "it will be brought into line for the row".
I like DB to getting better with the spec. When I'm comfortable with Havoc, I'll switch it to another talent.

[Orloth]

Fel mastery
Demon blades
Bloodlet
Soul Rend
Momentum
MotG
Fel Barrage

I've been running this same build with Felblade (with no regard as to whether it's optimal), and it's been fun to Fel Rush > Felblade > [FBarr, FotI, EB, or CS] > CS and then wait for Felblade to proc to repeat. Seems to work pretty well and syncs up to a sane and enjoyable dps rotation for quick World Quest clears and the occasional time I'm dpsing in a dungeon or raid.

[XxStavXx]

Demon Blades is nice for levelling and just making the class easier to learn which IMO is a good thing.

There is alot of other stuff to manage at 110 so it is good to have one less thing that doesnt kill the damage done whilst learning.

[chematus]

Demon Blades is nice for levelling and just making the class easier to learn which IMO is a good thing.

There is alot of other stuff to manage at 110 so it is good to have one less thing that doesnt kill the damage done whilst learning.

IMO it's not about hard/easy options, it just changes the fury generation way. It's more like new Arms vs Fury for me. Demon Bite gives more control over situation but requires wasting gcds and a lot of spamming. Demon Blades gives us random amount of fury on demand after using all our rotational cd to keep going.

[XxStavXx]

IMO it's not about hard/easy options, it just changes the fury generation way. It's more like new Arms vs Fury for me. Demon Bite gives more control over situation but requires wasting gcds and a lot of spamming. Demon Blades gives us random amount of fury on demand after using all our rotational cd to keep going.

yes meaning main fury generation is one less thing to have to worry about.

[Baelroc]

IMO it's not about hard/easy options, it just changes the fury generation way. It's more like new Arms vs Fury for me. Demon Bite gives more control over situation but requires wasting gcds and a lot of spamming. Demon Blades gives us random amount of fury on demand after using all our rotational cd to keep going.

Exactly. Not having Demon's Blades doesn't make the rotation all the sudden complex, spamming Demon's Bite is hardly complex or difficult. I don't understand the logic that Demons Blades should be worse because it removes the Demon's Bite spamfest. Its actually a more thoughtful rotation because it is much easier to overcap fury in a Demon's Blades build.

Having 1 extra button that has no CD and is spammable =/= more complex.

[Accendor]

I dunno, using Demon Blades makes everything a one-button-rotation in most cases, no? At least it feels that way to me on beta. And of course you are wayting a lot of GCDs waiting to do something, which is boring from my perspective. Dunno, really not my playstyle, but if others enjoy it, why not? Since I am usually raiding mythic I would be happy if this would not be the strongest talent, because I simply do not want to use, but if it happens to be stronges, oh well, guess I can do almost as well with the second best option.