Harbingers: The Story of Gul’dan

[Rehok]

Just watched this, Kinda makes me feel sad for him. If his clan didn't turn their back on him he might have turned out to be a good guy and the elements might have helped him.

[Arrashi]

Coming from Sylvanas' choir boy is so hilarious.

Wait, im sylvanas fanboy ? That's new.

Then again, sylvanas is probably better than pile of ash

[Darktbs]

I read this theory and I found it pretty solid:

"There's something pretty easy to work with here. Gul'dan in the MU was part of a clan, was a cripple and was exiled. He went to the Throne of the Elements...

Here, I think, is the diversion.

In the MU the elements responded and pointed him to Ner'zhul. After that he joins the Shadowmoon and serves as an apprentice until a greater chance for power's shown.

In the AU (conjecture on my part) the Legion silenced the Elements and took this exact moment to recruit him."

Your filled the hole i had with my theory.Thank you.

I thought that Gul'dan was send by the Legion to be Ner'zhul apprentice,the legion would make him(Ner'zhul) rally the Orcs since he is important person and when the time comes Gul'dan would take his place.

[Futhark]

Garrosh changing the original timeline with a shared past into an alternate one is the only thing that ever used to make sense. That's why AU Gul'Dan kept saying things like "This wasn't supposed to happen!". Garrosh's line of "Times change," makes no sense if everything is already different in the AU.

Edit: and like someone else said, The Stranger comic makes absolutely no sense now. What is the point of following this lore if they just keep changing it?

[Orby]

I am very interested to know this village Gul'Dan says we will never know of. Judging from the setting it looks like it was in Gorgrond, before he went to Nagrand to the Throne of the Elements.

[Deleted]

Garrosh changing the original timeline with a shared past into an alternate one is the only thing that ever used to make sense. That's why AU Gul'Dan kept saying things like "This wasn't supposed to happen!". Garrosh's line of "Times change," makes no sense if everything is already different in the AU.

The alternative timeline was already different before Garrosh's arrival. For example, Grom never had a son (Garrosh) in AU and Ner'zhul's wife never died.

[Casterbridge]

I read this theory and I found it pretty solid:

"There's something pretty easy to work with here. Gul'dan in the MU was part of a clan, was a cripple and was exiled. He went to the Throne of the Elements...

Here, I think, is the diversion.

In the MU the elements responded and pointed him to Ner'zhul. After that he joins the Shadowmoon and serves as an apprentice until a greater chance for power's shown.

In the AU (conjecture on my part) the Legion silenced the Elements and took this exact moment to recruit him."

I like this, it fits together decently well.

[Al Gorefiend]

Wait, im sylvanas fanboy ? That's new.

Then again, sylvanas is probably better than pile of ash

They're gonna pull a Gara'jal the Spiritbinder on Vol'Jin. He'll be our floating ghost guide like the fairy from zelda.

"Hey!...mon"

[Friendlyimmolation]

I got a heavy Raist vibe from him, sustained on bitterness etc

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From what I guess, his mu story splits off in the throne of elements where he actually becomes a shaman and goes to nerzhul. Or his au story is completely different.

[Matius]

I think this alternate or, even worse, retconned version of Gul'dan is boring and bland. What changes? From default, AU Gul'dan is the servant, MU Gul'dan is the mastermind.

AU Gul'dan is a reject and a cripple who seeks help, Legion offers help and he offers his service. This is the most boring story that could have been invented.

MU Gul'dan is a respected Shaman, under tutelage of the de-facto spiritual leader of the Orcs. As someone pointed out, MU Gul'dan's modus operandi was always gaining more power for himself. Betrayal, schemes, toying with Legion, seeking godhood in Tomb Of Sargeras. Much more compelling character and a badass in comparison to AU Gul'dan, the servant and opener of portals.

[Al Gorefiend]

You guys know what this fits in perfectly with? The movie version of Gul'dan.

- nobody knows where he comes from
- he's already enslaved/united/lead the entirety of Orcs from Draenor
- Durotan is aware he has a very powerful form of magic at his disposal even before the portal is opened
- his spine is replaced by a demonic one when he takes off his robe (because he was a cripple)

Blizzard is retconning Gul'dan folks. Instead of acting like a bunch of chimps just embrace that they're doing it for the sake of creating better characters than they did in the 90s.

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I got a heavy Raist vibe from him, sustained on bitterness etc

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From what I guess, his mu story splits off in the throne of elements where he actually becomes a shaman and goes to nerzhul. Or his au story is completely different.

I think this is MU Gul'dan and the movie is MU Gul'dan too. AU Gul'dan is created when he's already at his peak of power. Only instead of drinking the blood, the Orcs don't. Other than Gul'dan failing to get them to drink AU and MU Gul'dan have the same motives and cunning.

So, let me write this down.

Gul'dan:
- born a cripple
- cast out of his village
- seeks the elements, finds fel instead
- destroys village
- unites clans with promises of power
- MU - orcs drink blood of Mannoroth
- AU - orcs don't --- Queue Warlords of Draenor
- MU Gul'dan -- Warcraft movie canon and eventual death in Tomb
- AU Gul'dan --- Legion

Sounds like the whole Ner'zhul apprenticeship and Shamanic powers is a retcon

[Ethas]

The amount of people who don't understand that he isn't the main universe Gul'dan is too damn high.

That's what you get when you can't write stuff, manage lore dependencies and end up with wiping the whole storyline with nonsense time travel and alternative reality.

[Deleted]

That's what you get when you can't write stuff, manage lore dependencies and end up with wiping the whole storyline with nonsense time travel and alternative reality.

Except nothing has been wiped.

[huth]

Garrosh changing the original timeline with a shared past into an alternate one is the only thing that ever used to make sense. That's why AU Gul'Dan kept saying things like "This wasn't supposed to happen!". Garrosh's line of "Times change," makes no sense if everything is already different in the AU.

Edit: and like someone else said, The Stranger comic makes absolutely no sense now. What is the point of following this lore if they just keep changing it?

No, it still makes sense. Garrosh changed how events unfolded, regardless of whether they would have paralleled the original timeline. Besides, Gul'dan's words could just as easily mean "this isn't going according to plan".

Besides, Garrosh changing the original timeline was never what happened in the first place. AU Draenor was always slightly different.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Garrosh changing the original timeline with a shared past into an alternate one is the only thing that ever used to make sense. That's why AU Gul'Dan kept saying things like "This wasn't supposed to happen!". Garrosh's line of "Times change," makes no sense if everything is already different in the AU.

Edit: and like someone else said, The Stranger comic makes absolutely no sense now. What is the point of following this lore if they just keep changing it?

That's because Gul'dan was fooled by the stranger(Garrosh) thinking he'd go along with it and drinking the blood. Garrosh in WoD became the Kil'jaeden of the whole ORc blood drinking event weather he admits it or not.

[Combatbutler]

So, let me write this down.

Gul'dan:
- born a cripple
- cast out of his village
- seeks the elements, finds fel instead
- destroys village
- unites clans with promises of power
- MU - orcs drink blood of Mannoroth
- AU - orcs don't --- Queue Warlords of Draenor
- MU Gul'dan -- Warcraft movie canon and eventual death in Tomb
- AU Gul'dan --- Legion

Sounds like the whole Ner'zhul apprenticeship and Shamanic powers is a retcon

It is most likely the AU Guldan it fits there perfectly. Not so much in the main universe, we know the legion immediately went to Guldan in the au, but in the Mu it only came to him after Ner'zhul refused to corrupt his kin further. This origin story would highlight the currents Guldan's past perfectly and the reson he had no ties to Ner'zhul to begin with and why he had no idea about the legion and embraced the void instead.

[bloodmoth13]

Yes. KJ definitely knew what had happened to Ner'zhul and Gul'dan in our Azeroth when he chose to give Gul'dan the powers in the alternate universe Draenor since as we know there is only one KJ.

So thats just 100% canon then?

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This makes a lot of sense,
I feel the lore-defs should state it tho

Yeah, it would go a long way to improving the perception of WoD lore and could help explain why things were different the second time around. Also perhaps the reason grom didnt turn was because he NEVER trusted gul'dan, but had more trust and respect for ner'zhul? though thats not shown in warlords is it...

Id love for WoW stories to be covered by RTS campaigns in warcraft 4 or something that could fill in the gaps and tell a complete narrative from start to finish

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They're gonna pull a Gara'jal the Spiritbinder on Vol'Jin. He'll be our floating ghost guide like the fairy from zelda.

"Hey!...mon"

Nah he'll be uka uka from crash bandicoot, when you smash crates there is a chance to get a senjin fetish that follows you, if you get 4 you turn invincible for a short duration

[Ethas]

Except nothing has been wiped.

Last time I checked the AU was the part of Warcraft Universe, hence MU.

[bloodmoth13]

I read this theory and I found it pretty solid:

"There's something pretty easy to work with here. Gul'dan in the MU was part of a clan, was a cripple and was exiled. He went to the Throne of the Elements...

Here, I think, is the diversion.

In the MU the elements responded and pointed him to Ner'zhul. After that he joins the Shadowmoon and serves as an apprentice until a greater chance for power's shown.

In the AU (conjecture on my part) the Legion silenced the Elements and took this exact moment to recruit him."

That actually makes sense paired with my theory that in the AU the legion would skip ner'zhul altogether.

Kiljaedin would have been watching guldan instead of interfering with ner'zhul, so they would have intercepted at the moment of his great weakness and desperation, which would allow him to train harder and longer in the legion arts instead of wasting time learning other forms of magic.

Next, if the AU and MU were both supposed to be identical up to a point of divergence, perhaps some of the alternate timeline was manipulated by the legion, or perhaps some events instead were not.

New theory: kiljaedin killed ner'zhuls wife, then used his emotional torment to turn him, in the AU, he didnt want to recruit ner'zhul so he had no reason to kill his wife, which is why thats different. Then perhaps the reason ner'zhul betrays KJ as the lich king is due to the nature of the torture he received in the nether, perhaps KJ forcing him to watch his wife be killed at his hands over and over till his spirit broke, but instead enforced his resolve to betray the legion.

Then i wonder if the legion killed groms wife this time around to prevent garrosh from happening

Speculation for sure, but it helps cope with the time travel fiasco

[Deleted]

Last time I checked the AU was the part of Warcraft Universe, hence MU.

That's not how a multiverse work...