[7.2] Legion Holy Priest Discussion

[VigilantRose]

Resto shamans and holy priests don't share the same raid spot spot because symbol of hope is almost a must-have when you will be doing progress while being undergeared and the boss won't die in 2 mins or less like it does now during pre-patch, also resto shamans are not even a great dungeon spec for multiple reasons (unable to chain heal/healing rain effectively depending on group comp, healing tide not receiving non-raid boost, no tank cd to name a few).

My suspicion is that Devotion Aura and Ancestral Vigor will carve out their own raid slots, so the remainder are left for Holy Priest vs. Druid vs. Monk. I'm not sure that's a comparison where Holy Priests end up looking all that strong:

Innervate vs. Hymn of Hope. With 4 healers, Innervate is half the power (1 healer, twice as often) but it allows you to pick the specific healers that benefit most at the time they benefit most. So it's a bit of a wash.

Tranquility vs. Divine Hymn. With the artifact weapon, Tranquility is significantly better than Divine Hymn. Not only does it heal for a lot more, but it can be channeled while moving.

Ironbark vs. Guardian Spirit. These aren't directly comparable, but the rapidly reusable Ironback tends to be favored by many raiders.

Given that Druids are also the most mobile and durable healer, I'm expecting plenty of "whither Holy?" discussions as Legion raiding rolls onto live.

[Djriff]

My suspicion is that Devotion Aura and Ancestral Vigor will carve out their own raid slots, so the remainder are left for Holy Priest vs. Druid vs. Monk. I'm not sure that's a comparison where Holy Priests end up looking all that strong:

You kind of forgot about Disc there, but yeah, holy should still be decent, we'll see how things are at 110.

[Zasriel]

For pre-patch raids, what are the recommended trinkets? Is the crafted Alch trinket any good for HPriests?

[Deleted]

Do not forget that with the current state of shamans, a lot of people might go with 2, leaving Holy in an uncertain spot

[Jarilo1]

Do not forget that with the current state of shamans, a lot of people might go with 2, leaving Holy in an uncertain spot

It would a fucking joke if Shamans go live in Legion when raids come out the way they were on the BETA

[Djriff]

For pre-patch raids, what are the recommended trinkets? Is the crafted Alch trinket any good for HPriests?

I've been running DP and DSI with good results.

I've seen some people running with the class trinket, depending on the fight, as well as IG. Leech trinket is trash.

[salmonman78]

Think we'll be fine once we get used to everything and get the right gear. Yes RShams are a 1 of in each raid because their mastery is the best for progression. Haven't looked too much at them otherwise to be honest but I know I would want one with me.

As far as Hymn, people forget while it makes you stand still, it's still got the throughput AND buffs all the heals from all the healers by 10%.

And good lord do I need more haste I am realizing, I have my Ally Priest(693) and my Horde(730) and Heal is 2.2sec vs 1.8sec and that extra .4 feels like it takes forever. Then again maybe it's just I haven't fully broken the changes in yet.

I am thinking we'll be in a great spot come the Legion raids.

[Deleted]

Hey guys I'm very happy to see the holy pirest as a potential healer again.

Sadly I didn't had the chance to play a lot since the prepatch is released. I just did a hfc HC run (upper bosses) with my old disc mythic gear.

I made some thoughts about how to play the holy in hfc and like to hear what you guys think about it:

- What do you think about dropping the T18 4set bonus replacing tier shoulders with Amice of Phantasmal Power and the tier chest with Ancient Gorestained Wrap?

- What trinkets do you prefer? Currently I'm still using the disc trinket combo DP and IG. IG seems to be a nice little cooldown, although I'm not sure about the perfect moment to use it. I'm stacking it with CoH/PoH and the ring if possible. DSI and class trinket seem to be also good.

- What 10, 90 and 100 talents do you prefer? Having a look at logs of the 'best' holy priests they mostly skilled Trail of Light, Divinity and Apotheosis.
In my opinion some talents only work in short fights.

T90: I tried Divine Star. It seems to be super strong if it hits enough targets (Currently I'm not sure how many targets are 'enough'). Does anybody made the math at which point Divine Star is an improvement to divinity?

T100: Apotheosis is a nice cooldown. The problem I see with this choice is that most of the fights prevent using it more than once. It seems to be strong at fights like gorefiend or fights that are short (something like under 2:30min?!).
In my opinion CoH seems to be the better talent. An argument could be that we already have a group heal in form of PoH. But CoH is more mana effective and it's an instant! I think it fits better in a 'rotation' that allows a nearly 100% uptime of divinity.

I'm very interessted in your thoughts!

Greetings
Kasumii

[VigilantRose]

You kind of forgot about Disc there, but yeah, holy should still be decent, we'll see how things are at 110.

Discipline doesn't really do much beyond provide a sort of ambient upwards pressure on health and bring a few cooldowns. It's tough to say where it fits in the hierarchy without getting into a long debate on the value of dps vs. healing. In theory, there's some (healing) + constant*(dps) = (total value) equation that could tell us whether Discipline is 'winning' the meters, but I don't know what that constant would be.

[Kaigera]

Looks like I’ll be one of the many switching between Disc and Holy for Legion. Hooray Jack of all trades, master of none. Disc has been my main but I not too thrilled with Disc for 5-mans right now. Ok so I have little experience with Holy... and/or I have no idea what I’m doing. I kind of just cast spells when they come off cd and hope for the best. I did pretty well on Manno even though I think I had the completely wrong talents. I was kind of back-and-forth on Archi as I tried out different talents. I really liked Apotheosis for an extra burst, especially on MOTL/Rain of Chaos, with Divinity up the entire time. Divinity+IG+Hymn seemed strong. Hymn alone on Wroughts didn’t seem to be enough. (This was before the additional mega nerf that happened last night.)

This is where I need some help: my problem is all of my “seems.” I don’t want to “seem” about how to be most effective in a fight and am interested in the actual numbers. Does anyone have a spreadsheet going that calculates Holy hps/hpm/etc. with spell coefficients and factoring in stats (and ideally set bonuses, talent choices, etc.?) My pseudo “theorycrafting” involves napkin math scratching in a notebook, i.e. not the most reliable nor accurate. I could try to make a calculator myself, but I don’t even know where to find spell coefficients :/ Any help at all would be appreciated.


I’m curious about actual calculations concerning:

• I really liked Apotheosis for an extra burst (with mana limitations it seems more geared towards Serenity usage unless you can get an Innervate to chain PoH/Sanctify. That’s at least what I found.) A majority of players take CoH. I know CoH is semi-redundant with PoH, but better on fights with high movement due to its instant cast. I’m just wondering if a lot of Holy Priests are justused to having CoH and auto talent it as a result? Everything is pretty much speculation, which is why I’m interested in a Healing Calc.

• Is the T18 4pc bonus even worth taking? I swapped mine out in lieu of pieces with better stats. My reasoning being that with my Haste, I get a 10sec CD on PoM, used on CD is maybe 30 PoM’s in a 5min fight. (And is the 10% extra PoM a full cast with 5 bounces or just a single extra bounce?) I would get 3 bonus PoM’s, mine average 17k each, so that’s 51k bonus per fight (plus EoL), or a max of 255k if each gets a full set of bounces (plus EoL.) Again, my thoughts could be way off.

• How long of a fight would you need to make Enduring Renewal+Benediction+T18 4pc an hps increase? I get that you would want consistent ticking damage where all of the PoM were fully used, but that’s pretty general and doesn’t give any information about the talents you would be giving up.

• How much will your total healing be reduced if you take SoH over the Naaru talent? I am interested in knowing how much would need to be done during that 10sec to compensate for the loss. (The 10sec could be the difference between a kill and a wipe, obviously. However, if I’m just taking it because it’s neato to save mana for 10 seconds and it’s not saving the raid, that’s a different story.)

• How a would a 5sec Binding Heal (with the Naaru talent) Serendipity could affect total numbers? That seems like it might be good in 5-mans, but what about a raid setting?

• Speaking of Binding Heal… I’m most likely always going to be taking a speed boost and not Desperate Prayer. So with not having a personal DR in PvE, is Binding Heal worth taking just to get the extra healing on yourself? With the Naaru talent, it would be helpful with Serendipity. The alternative of saving Serenity and Guardian Spirit for myself seems like a terrible alternative.

• That big gold artifact trait at the top of our artifact seems to be pretty sweet. Could it be possible that Holy will start with Mastery as their top stat and then switch to Crit once we reach that trait? A 20% bonus on all healing is pretty big. I’m wondering how long you would need that buff to be present in a fight in order to surpass EoL healing (and if it even would, how much of a healing increase would it be and would swapping out all of your gear even be worth the trouble.)

Thank you

- - - Updated - - -

You kind of forgot about Disc there, but yeah, holy should still be decent, we'll see how things are at 110.

I don't think anyone forgot Disc... a Prot Pally brings more healing CD's to a raid than Disc does.

Externals

Prot

• BoP: physical immunity, 5min CD
• Sac: txfr 30% damage, 2.5min CD
• Spellwarding: magical immunity, 3min CD
• Lay on Hands: duh

Disc

• Pain Supp: 40% DR, 4min CD

Raid CD

Prot

• Aegis of Light: 20% DR, 10yd radius behind paladin, 5min CD

...Which is almost as good as a healer's CD:
Disc

• Barrier: 25% DR, 3min CD

Prot also has Hand of the Protector: 25% missing health heal, 10sec CD
Disc doesn’t even have an instant ST heal this big…


Oooooo my saltiness as a Disc is palatable, eh? Lol

[salmonman78]

T100: Apotheosis is a nice cooldown. The problem I see with this choice is that most of the fights prevent using it more than once. It seems to be strong at fights like gorefiend or fights that are short (something like under 2:30min?!).
In my opinion CoH seems to be the better talent. An argument could be that we already have a group heal in form of PoH. But CoH is more mana effective and it's an instant! I think it fits better in a 'rotation' that allows a nearly 100% uptime of divinity.

I'm very interessted in your thoughts!

Greetings
Kasumii

Glad to see you're enjoying it. Apotheosis is a great CD to use for those "oh crap!" moments or as a coordinated CD. The whole thing about CoH vs PoH is yes CoH heals for a little bit more but it also costs more, think it is 4.5%(PoH) to 5%(CoH). But with the fights being so short cause of the end of the expansion CoH might win out for now.

[Deleted]

For those who think disc doesnt deserve a raid spot:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...5&type=healing

Not me btw but i just want to show people disc is stronger then you think. It just requires skill to play and alot of people who play disc atm dont know how to play it and make it look bad. Once you get the hang of it disc is very strong. I main holy and dont even like disc playstyle but i don´t like when people undervalue it.


Anyway about holy, i am really enjoying it and pushing out nice numbers and feels very strong. I also got 0 mana problems and now that fights only last between 0.4-3 min i dont even pick up enlightment and symbol of hope anymore. This is in norm/hc solo healing btw, will try pug (shudders....) mythic 13/13 mon/tue.

I played my resto shaman, who is not that far behind on gear, and it felt alot worse for me. I went oom in no time and spells like tide and chain heal (i know not to spam it like before pre-patch) do almost no healing compare to holy priest. I still managed to solo heal alot of the raid, but later on i needed help cause i just couldnt keep up with the raid dmg on some fights like i could on my priest and had alot of mana issues.

I will still main priest like always, my shaman is just always my alt and wanted to share my experiences since alot of people say shaman is stronger. But to me they feel weaker then holy priest at least now in pre-patch. I will surely see them be very strong in Legion progress raiding.

[Deleted]

Since people keep mentioning it :

How was Flash Heal and Heal nerfed recently by blizzard ?

Where they higher than 475% spellpower ?

[Isheria]

The nerf is on the artifact weapon, for live pre-patch there is 0 difference whatsoever since you don't have access to it. Reverence is a trait on the artifact that boosts heal and flash heal, before the latest hotfix it was 5%/10%/15% and it was reduced to 3%/6%/9%.

[Deleted]

The nerf is on the artifact weapon, for live pre-patch there is 0 difference whatsoever since you don't have access to it. Reverence is a trait on the artifact that boosts heal and flash heal, before the latest hotfix it was 5%/10%/15% and it was reduced to 3%/6%/9%.

And other healers kept their equivalents at 15% ?

I do know Rshaman has an identical trait for Surge and Wave at 15% 3/3.

Man, that makes no sense to me, why should priest single heals be weaker ?!

[Xio]

The big decision is about raid spots. It's clear druids are better to raid than holy priest. RS have great cd's for progression.
Taking double resto shaman is a valid option, I am fear about keep going as holy priest and do not have raid spot.

[Aydinx2]

And other healers kept their equivalents at 15% ?

I do know Rshaman has an identical trait for Surge and Wave at 15% 3/3.

Man, that makes no sense to me, why should priest single heals be weaker ?!

Probably because the priest single heals are stronger, and the trait made them too strong.

[Nephthysis]

Probably because the priest single heals are stronger, and the trait made them too strong.

No, Flash Heal and Heal were 500% and got nerfed to 475 while resto shaman was buffed to 475. Later on the artifact trait was also nerfed while the others remain 15%.

Cuz Blizzard says we can't have nice things.

[xdmemes]

Holy priest tank healing rivals paladin and druid at this point, even with the nerfs. If you think holy is bad then you're probably just bad.

[salmonman78]

Holy priest tank healing rivals paladin and druid at this point, even with the nerfs. If you think holy is bad then you're probably just bad.

Don't think there are any of us saying it's bad here. Think almost all of us are rather enjoying the new tools we have. Now if I could just get out of the habit of renew spam like we used to. >.<