[BETA] Destruction Warlock Discussion

[Baconeggcheese]

Not sure I agree with this: at twice the shard (f.k.a. ember) cost, and the basically full randomizaion of gaining shards, it looks like they just reduced quality. Not much of a trade there. Wow life is becoming one single big lottery Don't even get me started on the Titanforged crap.

You take soul conduit and have immolates rolling on a few targets and you can hardly spend them fast enough, and that's without even looking at the shard on fire dmg legendary.

[corgikith]

Depending on talents legion destro has much more going on than mop or wod.

It's one of the only specs that actually got more complex with legion.

we walked through downstairs mythic last night with random addon wackyness and half the team reporting that they had forgotten to research their spec - or in one case forgot that 7.0 hit (camping and all - guild goal is to be world last. we plan to get mythic arch down and a picture snapped just before wow is taken off line for legion load. this is how we get the most out of our wow subscription). my fellow locks were rocking the demon dps numbers. being the slow one on the team, i reasoned i should start learning the new destro as i might have a clue by the end of august. i rather enjoyed it. endless havoc was a kick! cast time on shadowfury ended with some disgruntled raid leaders on soc, i thought roaring blaze and eradication actually made the rotation feel a little more like the part of affliction that i enjoy (paying attention to what is going on with the boss and adds more than what is going on with the trinkets in my pockets). anyway, i am feeling pretty good about the 'easy' locks spec. pretty sure it wont put me to sleep mid fight this month.

[Grizelda]

Using Roaring Blaze effectively on two targets, setting up good eradication chains with out capping embers is actually quite fun.

Using Destro spec trinket and keeping full stacks on two targets while doing the above is even more fun. I don't know how the trinket stacks up to others but I'm enjoying it.

[wholol]

Anyone else extremely disappointed with the whole destro playstyle shifting back to cataclysm era? I mean the mere thought of a burst spec having low burst and reliance on a dot for most of it's damage is just sad gameplay design.

[Turturin the Warlock]

Anyone else extremely disappointed with the whole destro playstyle shifting back to cataclysm era? I mean the mere thought of a burst spec having low burst and reliance on a dot for most of it's damage is just sad gameplay design.

I personally loved the cataclysm destro. It wouldn't disappoint me if they went back to it. But I don't see Legion as a return to Cataclysm design. I'm honestly not sure how you can make a connection between the two.

Also, low burst? What are you talking about? Low compared to what?

[Baconeggcheese]

Anyone else extremely disappointed with the whole destro playstyle shifting back to cataclysm era? I mean the mere thought of a burst spec having low burst and reliance on a dot for most of it's damage is just sad gameplay design.

I wouldn't say its low burst, its just not the instant kind of burst that you need to be viable a year into an end tier where everything dies almost instantly.

[Rogalicus]

Still can't understand where's our AoE. RoF is too weak for it's cost, Cataclysm has too long CD, FnB inci is slow and shitty.

[Baconeggcheese]

Still can't understand where's our AoE. RoF is too weak for it's cost, Cataclysm has too long CD, FnB inci is slow and shitty.

It's not as strong as it was before, and its sustained. You can overlap RoF's now, so in aoe you roll immolates on multiple targets and you layer on RoF's. Each immolate does 510 spellpower before artifact buffs, and RoF is 400% per target before artifact buffs which is nothing to scoff at. There's also cataclysm and FnB, though I honestly feel like FnB isn't all that great since it isn't helping you keep up RoF and cataclysm is a bit niche.

It's not the kind of aoe you can use to ninja aoe away from other people on undertuned content that people are also disgustingly overgearing like right now in 7.0. If that's what you're basing your conclusions on.

[Rogalicus]

It's not as strong as it was before, and its sustained. You can overlap RoF's now, so in aoe you roll immolates on multiple targets and you layer on RoF's. Each immolate does 510 spellpower before artifact buffs, and RoF is 400% per target before artifact buffs which is nothing to scoff at. There's also cataclysm and FnB, though I honestly feel like FnB isn't all that great since it isn't helping you keep up RoF and cataclysm is a bit niche.

It's not the kind of aoe you can use to ninja aoe away from other people on undertuned content that people are also disgustingly overgearing like right now in 7.0. If that's what you're basing your conclusions on.

Now it makes some sense, thanks. Maybe HFC won't be as frustrating today.

[Baconeggcheese]

Now it makes some sense, thanks. Maybe HFC won't be as frustrating today.

I'd take everything for the next month with a grain of salt, the specs are not designed for this current content that is extremely undertuned that we are increasingly overgearing. That's not to mention that certain set bonuses and trinkets completely break specs while others have nothing comparable.

Where the specs are now is an apples to oranges comparison vs what they're like in proper content.

[Gaidax]

Now it makes some sense, thanks. Maybe HFC won't be as frustrating today.

Just take Demo and roll everything... I found Destruction in pre-patch passable only when you can abuse Wreck Havoc a lot, it will change a lot at 110 though, because Wreck Havoc will stay, but all the crap that makes Demo (and couple other specs) OP will go.

[Gestopft]

Anyone else extremely disappointed with the whole destro playstyle shifting back to cataclysm era? I mean the mere thought of a burst spec having low burst and reliance on a dot for most of it's damage is just sad gameplay design.

The only part remotely Cata-esque about this iteration is that there is less burst. They definitely haven't gone back to that old clusterfuck. I'd like to see CB hit a bit harder, but w/e.

A question: If you have the Shadowburn talent, does it replace Chaos Bolt as a primary SS spender, or is it just used for the SS refunding?

[Gaidax]

CB will be reasonable enough in Legion, it gets a bump from Artifact, but it won't be the most damaging spell evah - various abilities will have higher potential, but CB will be quite spammable in comparison to those.

Shadowburn will have the same idea as it does now, it's not a replacement - pure throughput - CB will be better, so Shadowburn is shards snipe, mobility and PvP.

[Fallensaint]

Is Eradication increases the damage from Rifts? (and pets, maybe?)

Since the rifts are pets, they do not benefit from % damage increases. The exception is Soul Harvest, which explicitly increases your pets' damage.

The rifts also don't benefit from our mastery, and the Chaos Bolt rift does not benefit from haste. The Shadow Bolt and Chaos Barrage rifts are technically channeled spells, so more haste means more bolts, and one partial bolt when the channel ends.

Still can't understand where's our AoE. RoF is too weak for it's cost, Cataclysm has too long CD, FnB inci is slow and shitty.

Destro's baseline AoE isn't that great until you add in talents. Those talents do pick up quite a lot of slack if used properly, but they'll often come at a cost to single-target DPS. Knowing when and how to use talents is a huge part of playing Destro effectively.

Baseline: Spread Immo and stack RoF whenever possible. a 3-stack RoF can be quite strong, but pulling that off without talents is difficult and can take a while. Don't forget you have an infernal. It's not always the best option, but when it is it can do substantial AoE damage.

Cataclysm: The upfront burst damage is nice, but what this talent is really useful for is the instant Immolate spread. Very good for fights where add waves come in at set intervals, and it combos nicely with Soul Harvest. Can also be used for single-target damage if necessary, as 700% spellpower on a 3 second cast is pretty decent.

Fire and Brimstone: Very strong for sustained AoE, but not useful for anything else. It's strong enough that you can just maintain Immo on 1-2 targets and just spam Incinerate, but be sure to keep using RoF when you have the shards for it. If you aren't AoEing 4+ targets all the time, pick something else. Combos with Backdraft.

Soul Harvest: Not very good for single-target due to it's short base duration, but if you can get 5+ immolates for a 20+ second buff it can be quite strong.

Grimoire of Supremacy: GoSup Infernal isn't as much damage ad GoSac, but one advantage it does have is a very wide AoE. Not generally useful but not entirely useless either.

Grimoire of Sacrifice: This is my go-to talent for dungeons. At 20+haste rppm it'll proc roughly once every 3 seconds, so the okay damage stacks up really quickly. It's also passive, so as long as you can set up a couple Immolates it'll work on it's own. Not as good as the other options on this tier for single-target DPS, but it does at least do okay damage.

Wreak Havoc: Listed for one reason, but it's a big one: Shadowburn cleave. Very useful in situations with one large target and lots of weaker targets. Havoc the big guy and Shadowburn the adds when they're weak enough to die in 5 seconds. The extra shards add up quickly.

Soul Conduit: Pretty simple, more shards = more RoFs. It's RNG, sure, but the other options in this tier aren't really effective for common AoE. It's also great for encounters where you frequently swap between single-target DPS and AoE DPS.

[Netherspark]

After playing Destruction for 9 years I can say for the first time that I do not like playing it. It's agonizingly slow, it's dull, it's uninspired.

Destruction for so long has been very fast paced, yet interspersed with long-cast nukes. The mix of instants, quick casts and long casts blended really well. But in Legion now everything is slow and awkward. We're missing so many tools. I feel crippled.

[Gaidax]

We're missing so many tools. I feel crippled.

What do you miss? No really? Like what tool you don't have? It is easily the most well equipped warlock spec at 110, IMO. If you would say that about Aff/Demo I'd understand.

[Smog]

After playing Destruction for 9 years I can say for the first time that I do not like playing it. It's agonizingly slow, it's dull, it's uninspired.

Destruction for so long has been very fast paced, yet interspersed with long-cast nukes. The mix of instants, quick casts and long casts blended really well. But in Legion now everything is slow and awkward. We're missing so many tools. I feel crippled.

I really don't know what you're talking about. Nothing changed in terms of diversity of spells within the rotation. Immolate, Incinerate, Conflagrate, Chaos Bolt, and Shadowburn (when talented), all still exist and with unchanged cast times. The only thing that was added, in fact, were the Portals, which are instant and only add more burst and speed to the spec.

Is your complaint actually just that you can't consistently chain cast chaos bolts to the degree you could previously? Because otherwise the spec consists of the exact same spells it did previously, just utilized slightly differently due to the conversion to soul shards and the addition of Roaring Blaze. Wreak Havoc should have destro locks dancing in the streets.

If your complaint is the overall decreased pace of the spec in terms of resource generation, then that's legitimate at lower gear levels. But otherwise destro's kit is one of the least changed out of all specs in the entire expansion.

What do you miss? No really? Like what tool you don't have? It is easily the most well equipped warlock spec at 110, IMO. If you would say that about Aff/Demo I'd understand.

Beat me to it.

[striderZA]

Beat me to it.

Gotta be faster whooosh =)

[PickleballAce]

I really don't know what you're talking about. Nothing changed in terms of diversity of spells within the rotation. Immolate, Incinerate, Conflagrate, Chaos Bolt, and Shadowburn (when talented), all still exist and with unchanged cast times. The only thing that was added, in fact, were the Portals, which are instant and only add more burst and speed to the spec.

We're missing the old 1 second GCD from Chaotic Energy, aren't we now? Back to 1.5 reduced by haste like the other casters? That might contribute to the spec feeling slow.

[Smog]

Gotta be faster whooosh =)

This spec is really affecting my post reply ramp time.