The voice of N'Zoth confirmed (Blackfathom Deeps)

[purebalance]

It happened in the WoD pre-patch.

I really want to finally go face to face with this fella, he's caused so much trouble in Azeroth over the years, he and the Naga must be dealt with!

And he only deserves a mid expansion tier. He is confirmed to be the weakest of the old gods and we've personally killed 2. His little handmaiden is the most overrated character in lore by headcanon fanatics and needs to die a quick and silent death.

[Traveler Voltin]

Orcs can talm to their dead.
Ghosts appear everywhere.

The dead can still mess with the dead

[Sylvaeres]

Yeah, pretty sure it was added in Cataclysm.

Also, BFD. <3

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Link to this Chronicles? <3

it's a book. came out sometime in April or May I believe. Official lore from Blizzard. You should check it out. Alot of it is pretty in depth

[Qualia]

Wow. Holy smokes.

So, if Old Gods can put up a fight with the Titans (it would seem) then how would a Titan fair against a Void Lord if somehow they were on equal playing fields?

Well, for one, Old Gods are far from being able to put up a fight with the Titans. It was only appeared to be so during Vanilla to early WoTLK, which I assume was Blizzard's original intention when they introduced the Old Gods. However, since then, we've gotten evidences that it wasn't the case (like how Blizzard confirmed that we killed C'Thun / Yogg, or how they said that the Titans actually killed a lot, or the Mogu's poem about them killing Y'Shaarj possibly with help of Ra-den, etc.).

As of Chronicle, Blizzard made it clear that the Old Gods are nothing compared to the Titans. Sargeras found a planet with an infant Titan's spirit that were being corrupted by some Old Gods. What did he do? Literally sliced that planet in half and killing all Old Gods on it in one strike. The titan-forged armies (consisted of the Keepers + mogu, vrykul, etc.) were having trouble with Y'Shaarj, what did the Titan do? Aman'thul just reached down and grabbed Y'Shaarj with one hand, then pluck him off Azeroth, killing him in process. The Pantheon didn't even need to help the Keepers to defeat the rest of the Old Gods - they (the Keepers + the titan-forged armies) were able to do it by themselves.

All in all, the Old Gods aren't anything to the Titan. How would the Void Lords fare - we actually don't know. They haven't clashed yet and people have been interpreting Chronicle in their own ways (i.e: does being "envious of the Titans' power" means they aren't as powerful, or does that mean they are envious of the Titans' ability to travel around). Some believe that the VLs are more powerful, some believe the Titans are (I think so as well), but I don't think any of us is 100% sure. Probably have to wait for Blizzard to give us more information.

[Bisso]

Well, for one, Old Gods are far from being able to put up a fight with the Titans. It was only appeared to be so during Vanilla to early WoTLK, which I assume was Blizzard's original intention when they introduced the Old Gods. However, since then, we've gotten evidences that it wasn't the case (like how Blizzard confirmed that we killed C'Thun / Yogg, or how they said that the Titans actually killed a lot, or the Mogu's poem about them killing Y'Shaarj possibly with help of Ra-den, etc.).

As of Chronicle, Blizzard made it clear that the Old Gods are nothing compared to the Titans. Sargeras found a planet with an infant Titan's spirit that were being corrupted by some Old Gods. What did he do? Literally sliced that planet in half and killing all Old Gods on it in one strike. The titan-forged armies (consisted of the Keepers + mogu, vrykul, etc.) were having trouble with Y'Shaarj, what did the Titan do? Aman'thul just reached down and grabbed Y'Shaarj with one hand, then pluck him off Azeroth, killing him in process. The Pantheon didn't even need to help the Keepers to defeat the rest of the Old Gods - they (the Keepers + the titan-forged armies) were able to do it by themselves.

All in all, the Old Gods aren't anything to the Titan. How would the Void Lords fare - we actually don't know. They haven't clashed yet and people have been interpreting Chronicle in their own ways (i.e: does being "envious of the Titans' power" means they aren't as powerful, or does that mean they are envious of the Titans' ability to travel around). Some believe that the VLs are more powerful, some believe the Titans are (I think so as well), but I don't think any of us is 100% sure. Probably have to wait for Blizzard to give us more information.

just a quick note about Sargeras slicing the planet in half. It might not be as literal as it reads. I mean, yes, slicing a planet in 2 with his sword, and there's a drawing of it. But since we don't really know how Titans are, are they 100% physical bodies of the size of a planet? If there's a dormant titan in the planet, if you dig inside, do you see the actual titan in there? Could it be possible that it's Mythology, basically applying mortal concepts to things that are out of comprehension. I don't know, just thinking out loud.

[Kralljin]

And he only deserves a mid expansion tier. He is confirmed to be the weakest of the old gods and we've personally killed 2.

Blizzard can make N'zoth more powerful as they like, let him break out of his prison and tap into the power of the World Soul => Boom, N'zoth is super powerful.

The problem here is rather that Blizzard pefers to slap people like the LK; Deathwing; Chen or Grom on their cover of an expansion rather than a huge squid alien.

[deviantcultist]

They haven't clashed yet and people have been interpreting Chronicle in their own ways (i.e: does being "envious of the Titans' power" means they aren't as powerful, or does that mean they are envious of the Titans' ability to travel around). Some believe that the VLs are more powerful, some believe the Titans are (I think so as well), but I don't think any of us is 100% sure. Probably have to wait for Blizzard to give us more information.

I personally believe that the envious statement implies the inability of the Void Lords to be able to exist and create within an ordered and consistent universe. Hence, they are jealous of the Titans being explorers of the universe when they exist outside of it.

I believe that pure Light and pure Void are of immeasurable strength. The issue comes with the fact that they are divine concept rather than material, fully interactive ones.

Therefore, the goal of the Void Lords should be to turn creation's rules in the favor of the Void. However, what I am mostly curious of is the reason behind the balance of Light and Void. I understand why the Void needs to be checked by the Light. But why the opposite too?

[Ailil]

Except Blizzard said their deaths caused Cataclysm. It's not fans' words. It's Blizzard's words (in reply to the "why haven't there been anything bad happened even with two of them down?" question). Thus, they are dead (for now). What you think is just simply incorrect at the moment.

Also, I'd like to point out that while it's clear that originally, the Old Gods were inspired by Lovecraftians, Blizzard seemed to have moved away from that for a while (since post-WoTLK). At the time being, going by Chronicle, they (the OGs) are pretty much reduced to just mass produced disposable tools of the Void Lords. Seeing the Void Lords didn't even care where all those Old Gods lands, and just created & hurled them around the universe randomly.

That reply seems like a dodge
The cataclysm was clearly caused by deathwing, the old earth warden going crazy and fucking up the earth, its show in Cata over and over again

So how exacly the deaths of the old gods caused this? The only cause seems to be a political cost, maybe N'zoth got scared of his brothers dying and decided to act fast
But the death of a old god by itself was never show to do anything

[Qualia]

That reply seems like a dodge
The cataclysm was clearly caused by deathwing, the old earth warden going crazy and fucking up the earth, its show in Cata over and over again

So how exacly the deaths of the old gods caused this? The only cause seems to be a political cost, maybe N'zoth got scared of his brothers dying and decided to act fast
But the death of a old god by itself was never show to do anything

The Cataclysm started happening way before Deathwing bursted back into Azeroth, though. That's the premise of "The Shattering: Prelude to Cataclysm" book - the elementals went disarray, the surface of the world were ripped torn asunder - that's why Thrall left Garrosh in charge. We also get the pre-release event in game (the Elemental Unrest) as well. All of those happened when Deathwing was still in the elemental plane - another separated dimension altogether. As powerful as Deathwing was, if he could damage Azeroth to that degree without even being on it, he'd have had no need to go back to Azeroth. Deathwing only bursted back to Azeroth and started flying around destroying things later.
Deathwing might have been the main actor of the expansion, but it wasn't necessarily that he was the only cause of it. In fact, the questioner, after received the answer from Metzen & Afrasiabi, even asked again for confirmation ("Because of the Old Gods???") and they double confirmed it ("Right!"). It's similar to how Yogg was the one who started the Emerald Nightmare, but N'Zoth is putting the finishing touches in now.

How did their deaths cause it? There is no official statement in regard to that matter. However, we know that their deaths caused it for now. If I'm to make a guess based on that - it could very possibly be that since they (the Old Gods) burrowed deeply and connected well with Azeroth, killing them also weakening the world as an effect. We didn't get a big wound bleeding out arcane energies on the world because we didn't (well, couldn't) rip them off the world like Aman'thul, but that doesn't mean there was no effect on Azeroth. As their deaths weakened Azeroth, we got all those pre-Cataclysm happened in game and in book, and the world was weakened enough that Deathwing could cause the final Cataclysm.
(Again, all of those were just guesses, of course. While M&A said their deaths caused the Cataclysm, they didn't say how either)

[DeltrusDisc]

Well, for one, Old Gods are far from being able to put up a fight with the Titans. It was only appeared to be so during Vanilla to early WoTLK, which I assume was Blizzard's original intention when they introduced the Old Gods. However, since then, we've gotten evidences that it wasn't the case (like how Blizzard confirmed that we killed C'Thun / Yogg, or how they said that the Titans actually killed a lot, or the Mogu's poem about them killing Y'Shaarj possibly with help of Ra-den, etc.).

As of Chronicle, Blizzard made it clear that the Old Gods are nothing compared to the Titans. Sargeras found a planet with an infant Titan's spirit that were being corrupted by some Old Gods. What did he do? Literally sliced that planet in half and killing all Old Gods on it in one strike. The titan-forged armies (consisted of the Keepers + mogu, vrykul, etc.) were having trouble with Y'Shaarj, what did the Titan do? Aman'thul just reached down and grabbed Y'Shaarj with one hand, then pluck him off Azeroth, killing him in process. The Pantheon didn't even need to help the Keepers to defeat the rest of the Old Gods - they (the Keepers + the titan-forged armies) were able to do it by themselves.

All in all, the Old Gods aren't anything to the Titan. How would the Void Lords fare - we actually don't know. They haven't clashed yet and people have been interpreting Chronicle in their own ways (i.e: does being "envious of the Titans' power" means they aren't as powerful, or does that mean they are envious of the Titans' ability to travel around). Some believe that the VLs are more powerful, some believe the Titans are (I think so as well), but I don't think any of us is 100% sure. Probably have to wait for Blizzard to give us more information.

Sounds like I'll be buying Chronicle... I've been needing a new Warcraft book! Thanks, this sounds pretty epic! :O

[Kallisto]

That reply seems like a dodge
The cataclysm was clearly caused by deathwing, the old earth warden going crazy and fucking up the earth, its show in Cata over and over again

So how exacly the deaths of the old gods caused this? The only cause seems to be a political cost, maybe N'zoth got scared of his brothers dying and decided to act fast
But the death of a old god by itself was never show to do anything

No it wasn't though. The first signs of trouble with Azeroth were earthquakes that started in 3.3 which was 8 December 2009 though infrequent that was when the Cataclysm symptoms began. Given that lore wise most expansions last a year it could be said that it was a couple months after Yogg was killed and the world was reacting to it. (Chronicles state Yogg's tentacles were large enough that great trees were needed as far south as Feralas/Duskwood. So basically while the Lich King still stood and watched down on us the beginnings of the Cataclysm were already underway.

Time went on we had more frequent Earthquakes, then we had the elemental unrest and a load of other things all related to the deaths of the old gods before Deathwing burst out. The damage had already been done, all deathwing did was the final push.

[shockzine]

just saying, but you know who else was dead...and was dead up until this coming xpac.....Illidan.. so not hard for ogs to be back someday as well

[Tanthoris]

I think that one of the big issues people have with the old gods that we have defeated being dead is that Blizzard really only ever said that at blizzcon, or via tweet, which is poor story telling for something like this. It might be confirmed outside of the in game or even book lore, but because it was never actually stated in any written lore some people seem to have issues with it, or they simply don't believe it and call it head cannon.

OT: N'Zoth has a voice!

[Cooper]

No it wasn't though. The first signs of trouble with Azeroth were earthquakes that started in 3.3 which was 8 December 2009 though infrequent that was when the Cataclysm symptoms began. Given that lore wise most expansions last a year it could be said that it was a couple months after Yogg was killed and the world was reacting to it. (Chronicles state Yogg's tentacles were large enough that great trees were needed as far south as Feralas/Duskwood. So basically while the Lich King still stood and watched down on us the beginnings of the Cataclysm were already underway.

Time went on we had more frequent Earthquakes, then we had the elemental unrest and a load of other things all related to the deaths of the old gods before Deathwing burst out. The damage had already been done, all deathwing did was the final push.

And yet the Cataclysm cinematic shows Deathwing causing the earthquakes and tsunamis and what have you from his lair in Deepholme, as his peons hammer the plates into him, before he ever even leaves, because the land is still connected to him and his agony as Earthwarder.

[Nibelheimy]

And yet the Cataclysm cinematic shows Deathwing causing the earthquakes and tsunamis and what have you from his lair in Deepholme, as his peons hammer the plates into him, before he ever even leaves, because the land is still connected to him and his agony as Earthwarder.

Maybe, but he was in agony & insane well before they started hammering the plates into him, & that all just is for cinematic pacing, that's not strictly canon whatsoever.

Also, Deathwing was an old god minion, if Deathwing was probably told by N'zoth to go help the cataclysm along which the deaths of the others caused. It was all part of his plan. Just becuase he isn't physically as powerful as the other OG's, doesn't mean he's not been a big player from the shadows, and just as big a threat.

[Deleted]

I dont think nzoth will get a full xpansion, a raid with him as final boss and azshara in there somewhere could happen in legion tho.. Then voidlords or southern hemisphere azeroth .. either with spaceships or boats is my guess.

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Makes sense to me we fight with his forces and he betray us on the end and take the pillers of creation to empower himself and so the Nzoth expansion beginns.

I dont see anduin ever trusting an old god, personally

[Qualia]

And yet the Cataclysm cinematic shows Deathwing causing the earthquakes and tsunamis and what have you from his lair in Deepholme, as his peons hammer the plates into him, before he ever even leaves, because the land is still connected to him and his agony as Earthwarder.

No, it didn't.

It showed Deathwing who were in agony as his peons hammered the plates into him in his lair and earthquakes / tsunami on Azeroth. Deathwing bragged / muttered that while he was in pain and agony, the world were trembling with quakes as well. It's true that there *might* be connections. However, it isn't the conclusive evidence that Deathwing were the sole cause (if not even the cause at all) of those events on Azeroth. The movie could, for example, have tried to show that terrible things were happening at two places (Azeroth and the Elemental Plane) at the same time, and ended with the two dimensions connecting together with Deathwing bursting into Azeroth, signifying the beginning of the end.

Makes sense to me we fight with his forces and he betray us on the end and take the pillers of creation to empower himself and so the Nzoth expansion beginns.

I sure hope we aren't going to get so much Plot-Induced Stupidity as to trust or ally with an Old God no matter how desperate we are, to be honest. Having N'Zoth force fighting / trying to corrupt the Legion and we take advantage of that, turning it into a three way war, sounds more realistic to me.

[Kokolums]

Is it really that hard for people to understand that the old gods are fucking dead?

Blizzard has retconned and changed too many things in the lore. This is the result. Blizzard can state they are dead 50 times and it has no effect. Maybe Blizzard felt they were fixing some minor issues with those retcons but now they've got a NEW permanent problem.

[Qualia]

Blizzard has retconned and changed too many things in the lore. This is the result. Blizzard can state they are dead 50 times and it has no effect. Maybe Blizzard felt they were fixing some minor issues with those retcons but now they've got a NEW permanent problem.

It has effect on rational minds. Some people just like to pretend they can't read, or being stubborn sticking to their headcanon since it sounds cooler. Personally, I'm pretty sure that when discussing lore - ANY lore, real life or fiction, not just Blizzard-related stuff - we'd be talking about such lore at the time of the discussion, not what it were before, nor what it might become later. The fact that Blizzard might change it later has no bearing to what we are talking about now.

It'd be understandable if someone is to claim that they didn't know current lore due to it being changed since the last time they checked. However, when people all over the place have stated what current lore is (probably coming close to the 100th times if not more), with proper latest official sources plus link to said sources, one must be either incapable of reading, too lazy to do a simple search, or just stubborn to keep claiming that the (current) truth was something else.

[Cooper]

No, it didn't.

It showed Deathwing who were in agony as his peons hammered the plates into him in his lair and earthquakes / tsunami on Azeroth. Deathwing bragged / muttered that while he was in pain and agony, the world were trembling with quakes as well. It's true that there *might* be connections. However, it isn't the conclusive evidence that Deathwing were the sole cause (if not even the cause at all) of those events on Azeroth. The movie could, for example, have tried to show that terrible things were happening at two places (Azeroth and the Elemental Plane) at the same time, and ended with the two dimensions connecting together with Deathwing bursting into Azeroth, signifying the beginning of the end.

That's not how cinematic language works. When a movie makes a soft transition from one scene to the next with each having the same framing and even the same overall motion of action, it is drawing a direct connection between the two. For example, when Deathwing sweeps his wing and the tsunami hits Booty Bay, the cinematic is drawing a direct connection between the two. It is the exact same technique that Game of Thrones used in its final episode this season when it faded from a face in the Tower of Joy to another, older face in another place at another time.

When Deathwing monologues about how the earth trembles at his agony while the visuals draw a direct connection between his agony and the events on Azeroth it just further amplifies the connection between his actions and the events on Azeroth. Even without the dialogue, the connection would be clear, however.