About the "If you don't vote for Hillary you are voting for Trump!" nonsense.

[I Push Buttons]

Another fault is trying to break it down to just Florida and the cluster fuck that it was. Hanging chads. Buchanan getting large number in Palm Beach County. Add other factors.

Do you not know how our electoral college works?

[DeadmanWalking]

Well he prefers Trump to Hilary so then his voting Unicorn will get him the candidate he dislikes the least anyways.

That is because he thinks voting Trump is just voting Trump, but Trump is going to put every Republican wish list up to become reality. When he opens the door and steps through all of his Republican buddies will come filing in behind him. Is Trump really a Republican? Nope, he doesn't know what it means to be a republican which is why he gaffes so much of any kind of policy. But the truth is his party will make him push Republican Agenda.

If you are a Bernie Sanders supporter who votes Trump, you really are not going to enjoy the next 4-10 years as they outlaw weed, eliminate gay marraige, replace supreme court members, increase the size of the military, reduce welfare, increase corporate welfare, decrease gun control, illegalize abortion, put God back in schools, and refuse service to LGBT due to 'religious rights'.

You have to have a wider viewpoint than "I hate Hillary', there are consequences to actions and you don't get to decide what the consequences are

[I Push Buttons]

You have to have a wider viewpoint than "I hate Hillary'

Their brains can't handle that much.

[Azadina]

I don't think understand. I wish there was a better republican candidate. I don't know how trump will do though. Maybe he will be bad, maybe he will surprise people. I don't know. But I do know that hillary will be bad, and I can't see her somehow surprising everyone with somehow becoming a good president. Pointing out things that trump might do poorly is really irrelevant, but I wish there was a better candidate, like Cruz or Rubio, but he is what we've got, and he is still better than hillary, no matter how people try to spin him into some sort of evil devil monster.

I think all credibility is lost when you manage to name religious zealot and even more hardcore bigot than Trump, as better candidate than him.

[unbound]

So, its often said by a lot of pseudo-liberals that if your not "#WithHer," you are voting for Donald Trump. Allusions are obviously made to the 2000 election and the alleged impact Ralph Nadar had on the Gore-Lieberman ticket.

That X number of Democrats in Florida voted Nadar and it led us to George W. Bush. However, this is complete nonsense, Twelve percent of Florida Democrats (over 200,000) voted for Republican George Bush and 11% of Democrats voted for Bush in 2000.

In 2000, the Gore-Lieberman ticket couldn't even pull in the Democrats from Bush, why the fuck are we always fearing the dire spectre of Nadar, when Gore LOST those Democrats and more to Bush directly?

Ultimately it is on the Candidate to WIN voters, how many Democrats are going to ultimately write in Trump? Who the fuck knows, but maybe Hillary people should spend more time figuring out why Hillary deserves a vote and not screeching about spoilers and Trump.

Cool story bro.

Maybe Trump people should spend more time figuring out why Donald deserves a vote and not screeching about Hillary? Maybe, I don't know, actually looking at the history of Donald's business practices. See how he's actually behaved...things like not paying his debts, screwing over small businesses by threatening to keep them tied up in court, failing at far more businesses than he's succeeded at, etc instead of just accepting middle-school nonsense like "making America great" and general fear-mongering.

[Glnger]

It's quite clear. rather than politicians adjusting their views to more form with a broader audience (in this case, to capture the Sanders supporters who are more to the left of Hillary). The media and the Clinton campaign would rather fear monger and shame/blame voters that are to the left of her policies that are so far to the right it really is like voting for a Republican just without all the childish antics, dog whistling and fear mongering the Republicans do every election cycle. This is the problem with the two party system that we seem to identify every fucking election yet seem to never do anything legitimately about.

perhaps in a 3 or 4 party election it would force the Dems and Republicans to shift their views from catering to the establishment, banks and donors and back to the actual needs of the people.

the only thing either mainstream party has going for it, is that the other exists.

[spinner981]

I think all credibility is lost when you manage to name religious zealot and even more hardcore bigot than Trump, as better candidate than him.

Sorry, but your opinions on what makes somebody 'bigoted' or a zealot really don't matter to me in the slightest. I understand, you have to come up with a negative sounding word to call all the republican candidates. But if the way to become credible on this matter is simply cohering to your personal opinion, then I'm never going to be 'credible' on this matter because I am never going to be so ignorant and petty to call anyone religious a zealot and anyone that doesn't agree with my social beliefs a bigot, nor will I be so naive to think simply calling them those names should ever serve as reasoning for saying that they are poor presidential candidates.

[Paranoid Android]

Do you not know how our electoral college works?

Do you?

Florida is a winner take all state. So whomever wins the popular vote takes all of Florida votes and thus in 2000 election would have won the Presidency.

Well with all the cluster fuck in Florida. It could have easily swayed to Gore.

Did I explain myself?

[Theodarzna]

Cool story bro.

Maybe Trump people should spend more time figuring out why Donald deserves a vote and not screeching about Hillary? Maybe, I don't know, actually looking at the history of Donald's business practices. See how he's actually behaved...things like not paying his debts, screwing over small businesses by threatening to keep them tied up in court, failing at far more businesses than he's succeeded at, etc instead of just accepting middle-school nonsense like "making America great" and general fear-mongering.

Cool beans, don't plan to vote for him. :3 Thanks for saying what everyone else has been saying since day dot.

[I Push Buttons]

Do you?

Florida is a winner take all state. So whomever wins the popular vote takes all of Florida votes and thus in 2000 election would have won the Presidency.

Well with all the cluster fuck in Florida. It could have easily swayed to Gore.

Did I explain myself?

So you agree that it all came down to Florida, yet you criticized me for emphasizing Florida...?

Why argue for the sake of it?

[Azadina]

Sorry, but your opinions on what makes somebody 'bigoted' or a zealot really don't matter to me in the slightest. I understand, you have to come up with a negative sounding word to call all the republican candidates. But if the way to become credible on this matter is simply cohering to your personal opinion, then I'm never going to be 'credible' on this matter because I am never going to be so ignorant and petty to call anyone religious a zealot and anyone that doesn't agree with my social beliefs a bigot.

That is because you deny reality. You've shown it time and time again, that you agree on the kind of bigotry Cruz spouts. I don't know which one is more sad, the fact that you lie to me about not seeing it for what it is, or that you even lie to yourself about it.

For example: Racist is a racist, whether they want to agree with them being one or not.

[Pterodactylus]

So, its often said by a lot of pseudo-liberals that if your not "#WithHer," you are voting for Donald Trump. Allusions are obviously made to the 2000 election and the alleged impact Ralph Nadar had on the Gore-Lieberman ticket.

That X number of Democrats in Florida voted Nadar and it led us to George W. Bush. However, this is complete nonsense, Twelve percent of Florida Democrats (over 200,000) voted for Republican George Bush and 11% of Democrats voted for Bush in 2000.

In 2000, the Gore-Lieberman ticket couldn't even pull in the Democrats from Bush, why the fuck are we always fearing the dire spectre of Nadar, when Gore LOST those Democrats and more to Bush directly?

Ultimately it is on the Candidate to WIN voters, how many Democrats are going to ultimately write in Trump? Who the fuck knows, but maybe Hillary people should spend more time figuring out why Hillary deserves a vote and not screeching about spoilers and Trump.

You trying to rationalize your third-party vote?

[Barnabas]

The intention was for you to vote hillary all along. Trump and clinton are old friends. Trump ran in this election with the intention of being the greater evil since if she had to run against a real candidate she would lose like she did to obama. This is her only chance at ever being president since she's a shitty person.

[DeadmanWalking]

You get to choose the consequences or at least have a say in it.

Look at getting pulled over. How you interact with the police officer can change the punishment.

You can move the goal posts all you want, you are not going to change Republicans changing the laws to be the complete opposite of what Bernie wanted by sweet talking Republicans. If you havent learned anything from nearly a decade of blocking every single thing in government unless Republicans get 100% of what they want and 0% of what you want then I don't know what to tell you.

You vote Trump you get Republicans, that is the consequence of your actions. You don't get to say no, you don't get to barter with it by being nice. You get the consequences and they don't give a shit if you like it or not. You vote other, you get Trump and you get Republicans. You vote Hillary and you get Democrats. You vote Hillary you get liberal justices, you vote Trump you get Republican justices. That is the math, that is the truth even if you don't want to accept it.

[zEmini]

I hear the same shit that if you don't vote for Trump you vote for Hillary.

Anyone who says this is a BIG PART of the problem. 3rd party will not win this election, but if people get their heads out of their sheepish asses, more options will arise and in several elections from now we might actually have a more competitive candidates.

[May90]

I don't think you understand. I wish there was a better republican candidate. I don't know how trump will do though. Maybe he will be bad, maybe he will surprise people. I don't know. But I do know that hillary will be bad, and I can't see her somehow surprising everyone with somehow becoming a good president. Pointing out things that trump might do poorly is really irrelevant, but I wish there was a better candidate, like Cruz or Rubio, but he is what we've got, and he is still better than hillary, no matter how people try to spin him into some sort of evil devil monster.

Hillary was essentially Bill's mastermind during his presidency, and they did pretty darn well. I don't understand why people are so agitated against her after the recent smear campaign... It's not like similar smear campaigns weren't done against other candidates before: remember "Evil Islamist-communist agent Obama"?

Trump, on the other hand... It takes just listening to one of his speeches to understand that the guy is simply intellectually challenged.

[Barnabas]

Hillary was essentially Bill's mastermind during his presidency, and they did pretty darn well. I don't understand why people are so agitated against her after the recent smear campaign... It's not like similar smear campaigns weren't done against other candidates before: remember "Evil Islamist-communist agent Obama"?

Trump, on the other hand... It takes just listening to one of his speeches to understand that the guy is simply intellectually challenged.

Hillary is her own smear campaign. She doesn't care about anything else but power.

[Gamdwelf]

You can move the goal posts all you want, you are not going to change Republicans changing the laws to be the complete opposite of what Bernie wanted by sweet talking Republicans. If you havent learned anything from nearly a decade of blocking every single thing in government unless Republicans get 100% of what they want and 0% of what you want then I don't know what to tell you.

You vote Trump you get Republicans, that is the consequence of your actions. You don't get to say no, you don't get to barter with it by being nice. You get the consequences and they don't give a shit if you like it or not. You vote other, you get Trump and you get Republicans. You vote Hillary and you get Democrats. You vote Hillary you get liberal justices, you vote Trump you get Republican justices. That is the math, that is the truth even if you don't want to accept it.

I mean the Dems do the same shit.

Neither party is willing to compromise right now.

[Barnabas]

I mean the Dems do the same shit.

Neither party is willing to compromise right now.

Oh look someone that gets it. ^

[May90]

Hillary is her own smear campaign. She doesn't care about anything else but power.

Sounds like conspiracy theory to me...