Is Unholy strictly superior in dps numbers to Frost?

[fent]

DA terrible? it just does alot of dmg.

He is being facetious. Unholy is very strong right now, and he suspects that Blizzard will be nerfing it soon. Hence the "misdirection" in his post.

[CausalXXLinkXx]

DA isn't good at 110. It was nerfed a lot, and the ring is propping it up

[Deleted]

DA isn't good at 110. It was nerfed a lot, and the ring is propping it up

it could still be different when raids are out or people have the legendary that buffs army and DA/gargoyle when DT is up. personaly hope will be best choice for st or fights where you need high st burst at certain point.

[Baddok21]

even if they nerf DA will still be strong choice since you can buff it alot easly.

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it could still be different when raids are out or people have the legendary that buffs army and DA/gargoyle when DT is up.

DA falls closer in line with other dmg sources in legion at 110 because

1) no artifact buffs DA's dmg directly (other than the entry lvl talent)
2) Artifacts traits buff all other abilities but the ghoul and DA (bringing the dmg more in line)
3) no Ring and 1min WoD fights to condense the power of DA

but at 110 Unholy is still stronger than Frost Mechanically AND numerically.

[NecroSleetstorm]

DA falls closer in line with other dmg sources in legion at 110 because

1) no artifact buffs DA's dmg directly (other than the entry lvl talent)
2) Artifacts traits buff all other abilities but the ghoul and DA (bringing the dmg more in line)
3) no Ring and 1min WoD fights to condense the power of DA

but at 110 Unholy is still stronger than Frost Mechanically AND numerically.

Clawing Shadows needs a nerf.

[RuneDK]

Clawing Shadows needs a nerf.

Or they could just buff frost. Right now Frost is behind because the bugs got fixed that were causing us to do great damage. However we haven't been compensated for their loss. So...Now we wait.

[CausalXXLinkXx]

it could still be different when raids are out or people have the legendary that buffs army and DA/gargoyle when DT is up. personaly hope will be best choice for st or fights where you need high st burst at certain point.

With the shoulders it will prob be the go to ST talent again. Without shoulders and without a massive damage increase phase soul reaper is pretty solid.

[Deleted]

With the shoulders it will prob be the go to ST talent again. Without shoulders and without a massive damage increase phase soul reaper is pretty solid.

prolly , maybe da will be go to talent for tree boss(as far i know the hearth takes extra dmg) or rest phase of the dragon(not sure if she has dmg taken increase.)
or for ursoc M since as far i know he goes in frenzy in low hp and needs to be killed fast.

[NecroSleetstorm]

Or they could just buff frost. Right now Frost is behind because the bugs got fixed that were causing us to do great damage. However we haven't been compensated for their loss. So...Now we wait.

Do both. Unholy needs its damage redistributed more into spec mechanics. Ignoring Wounds is lolz and Blizzard doesn't like that. Apparently Frost DK is working out like Fire Mages usually do in better and better itemized and higher item level gear. Hearing rumors of FDK being nuts in internal testing in tier 2/3 of Legion. That would indicate we will scale for once with more than 1.5 stats.

[Deleted]

Do both. Unholy needs its damage redistributed more into spec mechanics. Ignoring Wounds is lolz and Blizzard doesn't like that. Apparently Frost DK is working out like Fire Mages usually do in better and better itemized and higher item level gear. Hearing rumors of FDK being nuts in internal testing in tier 2/3 of Legion. That would indicate we will scale for once with more than 1.5 stats.

as far i kno ingoring wounds doesnt happen anymore after they buffed them a while ago.

[NecroSleetstorm]

as far i kno ingoring wounds doesnt happen anymore after they buffed them a while ago.

Still don't see it being a huge portion of their damage and it should be.

[RuneDK]

Do both. Unholy needs its damage redistributed more into spec mechanics. Ignoring Wounds is lolz and Blizzard doesn't like that. Apparently Frost DK is working out like Fire Mages usually do in better and better itemized and higher item level gear. Hearing rumors of FDK being nuts in internal testing in tier 2/3 of Legion. That would indicate we will scale for once with more than 1.5 stats.

Hearing a spec is bonkers in later tiers that aren't even announced nor are itemized? Okay?

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Still don't see it being a huge portion of their damage and it should be.

I do agree with this statement...they are THE major mechanic of the revamp. They should be doing at a minimum 10-15% of the damage and I see most are sub 5%.

[CausalXXLinkXx]

as long as 1 FS and 3 wounds does more damage than 2 clawing shadows they are fine with it.

[Clash the DK]

Apparently Frost DK is working out like Fire Mages usually do in better and better itemized and higher item level gear. Hearing rumors of FDK being nuts in internal testing in tier 2/3 of Legion. That would indicate we will scale for once with more than 1.5 stats.

This is interesting. Now that I think of it...With secondary stat scaling reduced across the board, and Frost's secondary stat scaling hopefully remedied due to our newfound appreciation of Crit, Frost should be on even ground. But, this also means that now a higher percentage of spec scaling will come from primary stats. And we have Pillar of Frost.

With that being said, numbers will be brought in line at the start of each tier, but Frost very well may be in a good situation long term for the first time ever. Meaning we may no longer have to worry about falling behind in any future tier. This is good news.

[Deleted]

Funny how frost players see it as "us"(frost players) vs "them"(unholy) and actively want unholy nerfed and frost buffed, what happened to us dks as a whole vs other melee or even all dps specs

[psyquest]

Funny how frost players see it as "us"(frost players) vs "them"(unholy) and actively want unholy nerfed and frost buffed, what happened to us dks as a whole vs other melee or even all dps specs

true, people dont think. same class calling for its own nerf. mind blown

[Baddok21]

Funny how frost players see it as "us"(frost players) vs "them"(unholy) and actively want unholy nerfed and frost buffed, what happened to us dks as a whole vs other melee or even all dps specs

This stems from a long period of Unholy being the best spec for everything DK DPS related and then claiming it should remain that way due to preceived spec difficulty either real or imagined. If you have been playing for awhile you will remember this very attitude from the Paladin community from Vanilla when it was Ret vs Holy, Holy was considered raid spec and alot looked down on Ret Paladins add to that the lolret name calling and you had an extremely volatile in-spec fighting.

Even Warhammer tried to capitalize on this by stating the paladin class in there game "wont be standing in the back healing in a dress, you will have get into the fray in order to heal". Now the DK Spec fighting has not been that bad yet as Frost was mainly relegated to LFR-Normal-Heroic-BGs and had a place where it could preform admirably, but most Frost diehards are stating "I dont wanna have to play unholy for another expansion" and what they mean by that is pretty simple. If you step into the Mythic Raid scene your pretty much a 2 spec class if you care about performance (Unholy/Blood).

Thats mainly due to blizzard never giving both specs defined and solidified DPS roles, when one spec is strong its generally stronger at EVERYTHING AoE, Single target, Cleave, Burst. This is actually where Warriors have always been lucky because Arms is usually given cleave and AoE and Fury given Single Target and Burst (or the switch tier to tier).

thats why the Frost Legion thread was originally started because the main thread was talking primarily about Unholy because the majority of us are Mythic raiders and therefore are usually playing unholy.

[Clash the DK]

Funny how frost players see it as "us"(frost players) vs "them"(unholy) and actively want unholy nerfed and frost buffed, what happened to us dks as a whole vs other melee or even all dps specs

To be fair, I have seen this sentiment go both ways. Not just Frost players. But Unholy has traditionally been the superior spec for all things WoW, so it's makes sense that you would have seen this attitude more often from Frost players. But this really is a fringe perspective IMO.

Most Frost players just want the opportunity to play their favored spec competitively throughout a full tier of content; And we all know that has been an ongoing problem. Hopefully the well documented Frost scaling issues are behind us, and both specs can be better balanced going forward giving us players the choice of which spec to play. I believe that is what everybody wants. And I believe that scenario is much more attainable come Legion.

With that being said, there will always be a competitive relationship between Frost and Unholy. Furthermore, could we even rationalize calling ourselves Death Knights if we all sat around a campfire holding hands and singing Kumbaya? I think not.

[Fenrkyr]

Funny how frost players see it as "us"(frost players) vs "them"(unholy) and actively want unholy nerfed and frost buffed, what happened to us dks as a whole vs other melee or even all dps specs

Other classes have not had one spec significantly better than the other(s) for 6 years straight.

I really, really dislike unholy and always have, but I don't want it to be terrible. I just want frost to be on even, even somewhat even, footing, but Blizzard doesn't seem to agree and it creates a lot of animosity for me.

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Furthermore, could we even rationalize calling ourselves Death Knights if we all sat around a campfire holding hands and singing Kumbaya? I think not.

I've always envisioned DK's as Chaos Space Marines, and only cooperate with each other when it suits their needs. Frost DK's "getting along" with their Unholy brethren is like expecting the Night Lords to play nice with the Emperor's Children.

[Hellborne87]

This stems from a long period of Unholy being the best spec for everything DK DPS related and then claiming it should remain that way due to preceived spec difficulty either real or imagined. If you have been playing for awhile you will remember this very attitude from the Paladin community from Vanilla when it was Ret vs Holy, Holy was considered raid spec and alot looked down on Ret Paladins add to that the lolret name calling and you had an extremely volatile in-spec fighting.

Even Warhammer tried to capitalize on this by stating the paladin class in there game "wont be standing in the back healing in a dress, you will have get into the fray in order to heal". Now the DK Spec fighting has not been that bad yet as Frost was mainly relegated to LFR-Normal-Heroic-BGs and had a place where it could preform admirably, but most Frost diehards are stating "I dont wanna have to play unholy for another expansion" and what they mean by that is pretty simple. If you step into the Mythic Raid scene your pretty much a 2 spec class if you care about performance (Unholy/Blood).

Thats mainly due to blizzard never giving both specs defined and solidified DPS roles, when one spec is strong its generally stronger at EVERYTHING AoE, Single target, Cleave, Burst. This is actually where Warriors have always been lucky because Arms is usually given cleave and AoE and Fury given Single Target and Burst (or the switch tier to tier).

thats why the Frost Legion thread was originally started because the main thread was talking primarily about Unholy because the majority of us are Mythic raiders and therefore are usually playing unholy.

This is EXACTLY it. 10/10.

I have been raiding mythics / old heroic content for years and Unholy is the better damage spec, tier after tier after tier. I just want to fucking play Frost. Sure, I can and have played Unholy time and time again because, well, frankly, I have to. I have an undying love for Frost, the playstyle, the "spec fantasy", etc. and it's constantly shit. Most of the DK's I run in to are Unholy, whether these are actual mythic raiders or casuals to want to imitate them - and they all have an elitist attitude towards Frost. I don't want Unholy to get nerfed, I want Frost to get buffed, and to always be competitive with Unholy moving forward so that we ALL have a choice. Being a Frost die hard is like being an an immigrant or formerly oppressed people; lack of opportunities and looked down on by the rest of your peers. (extreme exaggeration, I know, but fuck it lol) For once, give us a fucking realistic choice, Blizzard. PLEASE.