Does tanking get better at 110?

[Deleted]

so if healers are supposed to handle tanking situations, what are tanks supposed to do?

stand there and be heal sponge ofc just ignore those retards who never ever touched a tank

[Xequecal]

I don't know where did you get that idea from but it's totally bullshit, prot war are average at best, dh and dk are infintely better than war.

1. Inspiring Presence is an absolutely mandatory raid talent for progression and the ONLY way you can get it is to run a prot Warrior.
2. Ignore Pain is 2,800% of AP baseline. With talents you can get the cost down to 30-45 Rage and up to 5,600% of AP. When you add the weapon talents and a Dragon Scales proc it's over 10,000% of AP, IE an absorb that's over double the size of your health bar. This is exactly what Monks in BRF were doing with Guard and it's just as broken when Warriors do it now.

[Deleted]

1. Inspiring Presence is an absolutely mandatory raid talent for progression and the ONLY way you can get it is to run a prot Warrior.
2. Ignore Pain is 2,800% of AP baseline. With talents you can get the cost down to 30-45 Rage and up to 5,600% of AP. When you add the weapon talents and a Dragon Scales proc it's over 10,000% of AP, IE an absorb that's over double the size of your health bar. This is exactly what Monks in BRF were doing with Guard and it's just as broken when Warriors do it now.

3% leech is mandatory for raid progression? what the fuck are you smoking.
never surrender talent is based on missing health, you would need to be under 5% total health to have a 5k ap ignore pain, dragon scales are completely rng, you can't manipulate it to have when the next big damage is coming, it's totally different with how brewmasters were doing it, not to mention brewmasters were op because of really high stagger percentage (like passive 70%) Guard had nothing to do with that.

[DisposableHero]

And you dont see the problem with a tank that can survive very intense tanking situations on his own for 20 seconds?

Why even have healers lol

For the raid/party/dealing with interesting mechanics. Pouring heals into a slow moving health bar is easily the least compelling of Healer mechanics. You know what is maddening though. Sitting on Mannoroth at 20% hp with literally my entire arsenal of defensives at the ready and the most effective thing I can do to survive is yell on mumble "Combo in 6 seconds, please top off the tank, I repeat, Glaive Combo in 4 seconds, top off the tank".

3% leech is mandatory for raid progression? what the fuck are you smoking.
never surrender talent is based on missing health, you would need to be under 5% total health to have a 5k ap ignore pain, dragon scales are completely rng, you can't manipulate it to have when the next big damage is coming, it's totally different with how brewmasters were doing it, not to mention brewmasters were op because of really high stagger percentage (like passive 70%) Guard had nothing to do with that.

Guard, at 900% attack power trivialized most of the tank mechanics in HFC, and could reach 3x a monk's HP bar. The baseline for Ignore Pain is more than twice that.

[Dezminion]

You dont play tank becouse u wanna dps and have 10 dps abilities, tanking today is all about surviving, using dmg red and AM correct.. just how it hould be.
For me as a healer i immediately notice if the tank is shit or not.

It is just sad, that AM is so weak that if sh&t hits the fan no correct AM usage will save a tank. Plus rocking with 4 skills is not hard, since if you push a button, that is not on CD you will be tanking just fine.

Tanking should be 'bout choises, if you make a correct one, then you take less dmg, if you make the wrong one you get hammered into the ground.

Sure in WoD one could easily tell if tank was crap or not, but now at Legion the skill ceiling will be 1cm high, from the bottom of the ocean. It is nowhere close to an enjoyable experiense. Sadly.

[Gorsameth]

It is just sad, that AM is so weak that if sh&t hits the fan no correct AM usage will save a tank. Plus rocking with 4 skills is not hard, since if you push a button, that is not on CD you will be tanking just fine.

Tanking should be 'bout choises, if you make a correct one, then you take less dmg, if you make the wrong one you get hammered into the ground.

Sure in WoD one could easily tell if tank was crap or not, but now at Legion the skill ceiling will be 1cm high, from the bottom of the ocean. It is nowhere close to an enjoyable experiense. Sadly.

Sounds like you haven't done any tanking because healing dungeons I can certainly notice the difference between tanks who do and do not press their buttons correctly.

[Xequecal]

For the raid/party/dealing with interesting mechanics. Pouring heals into a slow moving health bar is easily the least compelling of Healer mechanics. You know what is maddening though. Sitting on Mannoroth at 20% hp with literally my entire arsenal of defensives at the ready and the most effective thing I can do to survive is yell on mumble "Combo in 6 seconds, please top off the tank, I repeat, Glaive Combo in 4 seconds, top off the tank".

Guard, at 900% attack power trivialized most of the tank mechanics in HFC, and could reach 3x a monk's HP bar. The baseline for Ignore Pain is more than twice that.

Guard was actually 1800% of AP, they never updated that tooltip throughout almost the entirety of BRF. It's still a lot less than what Warriors get for a shield from AP now, though.

- - - Updated - - -

3% leech is mandatory for raid progression? what the fuck are you smoking.
never surrender talent is based on missing health, you would need to be under 5% total health to have a 5k ap ignore pain, dragon scales are completely rng, you can't manipulate it to have when the next big damage is coming, it's totally different with how brewmasters were doing it, not to mention brewmasters were op because of really high stagger percentage (like passive 70%) Guard had nothing to do with that.

3% leech that you get entirely for free without having to make any tradeoffs other than using what is already the best tank is mandatory, yes. The only other class-specific raid utility anywhere in the league of Inspiring Presence is Stampeding Roar and that can be done by any Druid, not just one spec.

[salk10022]

3% leech is mandatory for raid progression? what the fuck are you smoking.
never surrender talent is based on missing health, you would need to be under 5% total health to have a 5k ap ignore pain, dragon scales are completely rng, you can't manipulate it to have when the next big damage is coming, it's totally different with how brewmasters were doing it, not to mention brewmasters were op because of really high stagger percentage (like passive 70%) Guard had nothing to do with that.

Never surrender allows for a 6x base IP to be stacked up (3x fully boosted IP - essentially a 0hp IP). Without it, the cap is 3x. If you are using IP one off (pressing it once then waiting for the damage to eat it), you are doing it wrong. IP should be up nearly 100% of the time, stacked as high as it will go.

I am a mythic dungeon tank (ilvl 719, no class trinket, no tier at all). I rarely raid (who has time these days?). In mythic dungeons, I generally top the healing meters, doing about 25-30k hps, most of which is Ignore Pain. I weave FR and IP (because of Vengeance) the best I can, keeping as big of a stack of IP as I can. I run either Never Surrender or Indomitable, and honestly, I couldn't feel a difference between the 2 in mythic dungeons.

Every healer I've run with has said that I was super easy to heal. On "Healing Taken" from Recount, I am normally doing 90% of my own heals taken.

At the end of the day, its clear that people haven't figured out how to play their new classes. Some have, and that class seems OP until you run into someone who doesn't have a clue. Then they get wrecked.

[Noruego]

Never surrender allows for a 6x base IP to be stacked up (3x fully boosted IP - essentially a 0hp IP). Without it, the cap is 3x. If you are using IP one off (pressing it once then waiting for the damage to eat it), you are doing it wrong. IP should be up nearly 100% of the time, stacked as high as it will go.

I am a mythic dungeon tank (ilvl 719, no class trinket, no tier at all). I rarely raid (who has time these days?). In mythic dungeons, I generally top the healing meters, doing about 25-30k hps, most of which is Ignore Pain. I weave FR and IP (because of Vengeance) the best I can, keeping as big of a stack of IP as I can. I run either Never Surrender or Indomitable, and honestly, I couldn't feel a difference between the 2 in mythic dungeons.

Every healer I've run with has said that I was super easy to heal. On "Healing Taken" from Recount, I am normally doing 90% of my own heals taken.

At the end of the day, its clear that people haven't figured out how to play their new classes. Some have, and that class seems OP until you run into someone who doesn't have a clue. Then they get wrecked.

Most tanks can solo mythic dungeons at that ilevel. So i'd hardly draw any conclusions as to what is "OP" from doing what is essentially trivial content.

[Deleted]

Guard was actually 1800% of AP, they never updated that tooltip throughout almost the entirety of BRF. It's still a lot less than what Warriors get for a shield from AP now, though.

3% leech that you get entirely for free without having to make any tradeoffs other than using what is already the best tank is mandatory, yes. The only other class-specific raid utility anywhere in the league of Inspiring Presence is Stampeding Roar and that can be done by any Druid, not just one spec.

Difference is Resolve was a thing back in BRF, you would actually have a 1800%x10 with max resolve, resolve is gone now.

Inspire presence is not free, you lose safeguard, which in a world where tank cooldowns are very scarse (or awful like blessing of sacrifice) is actually really powerful

[Xequecal]

Difference is Resolve was a thing back in BRF, you would actually have a 1800%x10 with max resolve, resolve is gone now.

Inspire presence is not free, you lose safeguard, which in a world where tank cooldowns are very scarse (or awful like blessing of sacrifice) is actually really powerful

Resolve capped at 200%, not 1000%. So a max resolve Guard was 5,400% of AP. You got 1 every 30 seconds, and it was insane. Warriors get a lot more IPs than one every 30 seconds and once Dragon Scales is in play the average IP is going to be bigger than 5,400%.

[Marrilaife]

If you outgeared the content a healer could go afk for 5 minutes and come back to see the tank was still alive. That is bad and needed fixing.

If you outgeared the content then we should really not talk about balancing or overpowered-ness, a dps can solo content they outgear, it doesn't even need to be a tank.

Anyway I don't get why I hear such mixed comments. I heard DHs are best tanks especially for mythic+ dungeons, now I hear they're mediocre. I hear paladins are ruined, then I hear they're one of the better tanks. I hear warriors are OP, then that there's no point playing them. Is it just wildly varying opinions with no basis than personal preference or is there any data behind those disparities?

[salk10022]

Most tanks can solo mythic dungeons at that ilevel. So i'd hardly draw any conclusions as to what is "OP" from doing what is essentially trivial content.

Reading is a thing. Where did I draw conclusions on what is OP? I never said ANY class is OP. Let me dumb what I wrote down for you: if someone plays a class well, it SEEMS, to outside observers, that the class is OP. If someone plays their class badly, they get wrecked. Long story short, there is no "best" tank right now. If you are a good player, then everything is "trivial."

Also, I'd like to see a video of a non-DK solo a mythic dungeon post 7.0 below 720 ilvl. This isn't a challenge, I really am interested in seeing it.

[Haywire5714]

The post above mine is pretty typical garbage that you usually hear from bads who freak out at the slightest change. Anyone claiming there is no play difference between good and bad tanks is probably just too bad a tank to see how high the skill ceiling goes. Hyperbolic shitposts from tanks that are upset that they cant solo everything anymore should not be used as a basis of tank effectiveness come legion.

Can you explain to me what specifically makes the skill ceiling really high, I don't play the game right now and I don't plan on playing legion but I just want to see if you're saying nonsense right now.

[DisposableHero]

Anyway I don't get why I hear such mixed comments. I heard DHs are best tanks especially for mythic+ dungeons, now I hear they're mediocre. I hear paladins are ruined, then I hear they're one of the better tanks. I hear warriors are OP, then that there's no point playing them. Is it just wildly varying opinions with no basis than personal preference or is there any data behind those disparities?

You have to sort between those that are comparing tanks to their former selves and those that are comparing tanks to other tanks in the current environment. Every tank was bludgeoned with the nerf bat by comparison to their 6.2 self and every tank's mechanics were fucked up in someway compared to how they were and basically there are only two groups of people happy with the current tanking design and neither of those groups play tanks.

Contrastingly there are comparison of 7.0.3 tank specs to other 7.0.3 tank specs, which is where some specs can be looked upon favorably in a "at least I'm not as bad as that steaming pile of dung" kind of way, despite being almost completely gutted.

[Deleted]

Resolve capped at 200%, not 1000%. So a max resolve Guard was 5,400% of AP. You got 1 every 30 seconds, and it was insane. Warriors get a lot more IPs than one every 30 seconds and once Dragon Scales is in play the average IP is going to be bigger than 5,400%.

max resolve was 232%

[Sencha]

In former expansions, tanks had to manage their threat.

In recent expansions, threat was no longer a problem but tanks had to manage their active mitigation to survive.

In Legion you don't need to care about threat and you only rely on healers to survive. So you basically don't do anything impactful except one or two CD once in a while.

[judgementofantonidas]

I logged in to play around with the pre-patch. I've consistently played tanks during WoW.

I was in a bit of a shock when I logged into my brewmaster, then my prot warrior, then my prot pali. They gutted everything... I feel like I have 6 abilities to press now on any of the tank classes. I've never been more sad than now with the state of tanking.

So I haven't been blessed with legion beta access, and haven't kept up with much information, but does tanking get better at 110 as far as gameplay depth?

I just cannot see myself playing the cut down version of tanks if it doesn't get significantly better at end game.


Thanks

no. not particularly. prot paladin has had it's one key attraction removed in making it nothing more than a warrior with slightly different spells. your past abilities used to keep you alive and relevant with your peers of the other tank class have been removed making you nothing more than a meat shield reliant on healers to pay attention. meanwhile many of the healing classes have been given damage abilities. go figure.

- - - Updated - - -

I was going to play a DK tank and this worries me

dk are the same one button wonders of the previous expac

- - - Updated - - -

The lack of artifacts hurts tanks more so than any other class archetype. Not having the mitigation passives/abilities from the Legion weapons really makes the tank specs feel incomplete. My advice from an alpha/beta player who focused almost exclusively on tanks is to wait until you get your artifact weapon to make any game-changing decisions.

Having said that, the artifacts arent going to make any huge play style changes.

Increase your tank's sturdiness - yes.
Make the spec play substantially different - no.

The post above mine is pretty typical garbage that you usually hear from bads who freak out at the slightest change. Anyone claiming there is no play difference between good and bad tanks is probably just too bad a tank to see how high the skill ceiling goes. Hyperbolic shitposts from tanks that are upset that they cant solo everything anymore should not be used as a basis of tank effectiveness come legion.

Leveled, dungeoned, and raided three prot paladins in the alpha,beta,ptr stages. Kept hoping for changes that would make them more than just a damage sponge reliant on the attention span of healers trying to keep dps standing in shit alive.

- - - Updated - - -

You dont play tank becouse u wanna dps and have 10 dps abilities, tanking today is all about surviving, using dmg red and AM correct.. just how it hould be.
For me as a healer i immediately notice if the tank is shit or not.

No. We are only damage sponges now due to the great outcry of bad dps that most of us used to, and some of us still can outdamage.

- - - Updated - - -

Most tanks can solo mythic dungeons at that ilevel. So i'd hardly draw any conclusions as to what is "OP" from doing what is essentially trivial content.

Tanks should be able to solo dungeon content by the end of an expac.
Now some no longer can do to over pruning and shit abilities.

- - - Updated - - -

Can you explain to me what specifically makes the skill ceiling really high, I don't play the game right now and I don't plan on playing legion but I just want to see if you're saying nonsense right now.

there is no high skill cap at least with the tanks I trialed in both alpha and beta stages. some of the abilities are not necessarily gone but baked into something else moving ever closer to having me get rid of my orb weaver and hook up an xbox controller. watching timers is not hard. saving your active mitigation instead of using it to also contribute to the damage pool is not hard. Being one shot in on normal Mannoroth with active mitigation and a cooldown up because the healer looked away from the screen for 3 seconds is not hard either. Sure, make healers job "fun". Don't do it at the expense of a tank's ability to survive.

[Elbob]

there is no high skill cap at least with the tanks I trialed in both alpha and beta stages. some of the abilities are not necessarily gone but baked into something else moving ever closer to having me get rid of my orb weaver and hook up an xbox controller. watching timers is not hard. saving your active mitigation instead of using it to also contribute to the damage pool is not hard. Being one shot in on normal Mannoroth with active mitigation and a cooldown up because the healer looked away from the screen for 3 seconds is not hard either. Sure, make healers job "fun". Don't do it at the expense of a tank's ability to survive.

I don't know what you are doing wrong or what classes you are playing but skill ceiling for tanks is certainly gonna be high.
Are tanks as self reliant as they were in wod? def not. At the same time a good tank will never fall over cause a healer looked away for a few seconds. My ilvl 700 tank walked into heroic manno and archi and made them look like a joke.
My monk felt like crap on mythic but thats mostly do to artifact traits I think (monks get 6-12% dmg reduction with really high uptime, depending on relics, from one artifact trait.)

[Bigbazz]

The simple answer is not it does not, not in terms of gameplay complexity, you get one new medium cooldown ability with your artifact.