[Beta] Vengeance Discussion

[Neudgae]

alright, ill rephrase my question then :3, what would allow me to solo a dungeon boss(considering most have few to no adds)

[ShasVa]

The Illidari Crest skins glow with coloured flame, depending on the colour selected. I'm going after the green one (research the full history of your artifact, aka get the maximum artifact knowledge level). If I can't use the WoA for transmog, then the aforementioned skin will be my target.

The Vengeance DH I'm running with on the Beta is still quite resilient despite the nerfs. Level 110, 824 ilvl, Charred Warblades unlocked, and I've almost unlocked Painbringer as well. The combination of Soul Rending and Fel Devastation is still very useful too.

[PeopleReady]

Hey guys, how is Veng leveling? On the beta I've leveled BM, Assass, Unholy, Havoc and Ret all up to 105-106 to get a flavor. Unholy and BM were pretty quick and safe. I leveled Vengeande to 103, but it seemed to kill incredibly slowly.. Where does it fall on the spectrum of "tank damage"? I'd like to tank in legion but also hope for a smooth leveling experience. Would you give think it's better to stick with Vengeande or swap to Blood DK? I enjoy the play styles of both.

[Munkky]

alright, ill rephrase my question then :3, what would allow me to solo a dungeon boss(considering most have few to no adds)

Talents aren't what's going to allow that, gear and skill is what you want. You can/will use the same general talent set up you would user in a group environment.

- - - Updated - - -

Hey guys, how is Veng leveling? On the beta I've leveled BM, Assass, Unholy, Havoc and Ret all up to 105-106 to get a flavor. Unholy and BM were pretty quick and safe. I leveled Vengeande to 103, but it seemed to kill incredibly slowly.. Where does it fall on the spectrum of "tank damage"? I'd like to tank in legion but also hope for a smooth leveling experience. Would you give think it's better to stick with Vengeande or swap to Blood DK? I enjoy the play styles of both.

Leveling makes up 10-15 hours so worrying about leveling is pointless especially your 2nd, 3rd, 6th time through when you know the path to take. Unless you are tanking at a high level in a top end guild, don't worry about what tank you pick, just choose your favorite because the rankings are most likely going to change between now and raid launch.

[PeopleReady]

Talents aren't what's going to allow that, gear and skill is what you want. You can/will use the same general talent set up you would user in a group environment.

- - - Updated - - -



Leveling makes up 10-15 hours so worrying about leveling is pointless especially your 2nd, 3rd, 6th time through when you know the path to take. Unless you are tanking at a high level in a top end guild, don't worry about what tank you pick, just choose your favorite because the rankings are most likely going to change between now and raid launch.

Thanks very much for the response man. Can I ask one more thing? I've been out of WoW for about five years and enter Legion guildless and friendless. Is it a fruitless endevour to try and break into tanking? I'm really worried that I'll sink a lot of time into a character and dungeons, only to find that every guild already has their two tanks. It's a role id love to fill and enjoy playing, but is it realistic at this point in the game's lifespan?

[TipTopPoet]

Hey guys, how is Veng leveling? On the beta I've leveled BM, Assass, Unholy, Havoc and Ret all up to 105-106 to get a flavor. Unholy and BM were pretty quick and safe. I leveled Vengeande to 103, but it seemed to kill incredibly slowly.. Where does it fall on the spectrum of "tank damage"? I'd like to tank in legion but also hope for a smooth leveling experience. Would you give think it's better to stick with Vengeande or swap to Blood DK? I enjoy the play styles of both.

If you're leveling a tank remember to pull groups. A dps can kill a single mob faster than a tank. But tanks can aoe down groups and have little to no downtime afterwards where most dps can't or have downtime. This speeds up your questing by a lot. This is especially true for the self healing tanks. Or at least this was my experience leveling DK, DH, Druid and Paladin to cap on beta.

Edit: I'm currently torn between DH and DK myself. I've mained a DK tank since wrath except when I briefly dabbled with a monk during SoO heroic progression (back before it was Mythic). Both are fun. So pick whatever you like most.

[Primalthirst]

Thanks very much for the response man. Can I ask one more thing? I've been out of WoW for about five years and enter Legion guildless and friendless. Is it a fruitless endevour to try and break into tanking? I'm really worried that I'll sink a lot of time into a character and dungeons, only to find that every guild already has their two tanks. It's a role id love to fill and enjoy playing, but is it realistic at this point in the game's lifespan?

This was the exact situation I had for Warlords of Draenor. I found it worked well to find a guild before release and have my interview and application then. Before the rush of freshly returning players arrived. If you're a good player and can convince someone to give you a shot you'll be fine.

[Munkky]

Thanks very much for the response man. Can I ask one more thing? I've been out of WoW for about five years and enter Legion guildless and friendless. Is it a fruitless endevour to try and break into tanking? I'm really worried that I'll sink a lot of time into a character and dungeons, only to find that every guild already has their two tanks. It's a role id love to fill and enjoy playing, but is it realistic at this point in the game's lifespan?

Yeah, I'll be honest, throughout brf all I did was pug, that was the first half of last year, then I left the game for 6 months and cane back in December, I've been 13/13M for a Couple months now, so anything is possible. Like primal said, you gotta get in asap, people are starting to come back already so figure out your tank and get it leveled.

If you plan on maining dh, level up another tank quci and gear it to join a guild. Just make sure they understand you wanna tank and on a dh. Plenty of people will be making guilds and even more guilds will be starting back up and will be looking for people so find one now.

[ShasVa]

Level 110, 824 ilvl, Charred Warblades and Painbringer unlocked.

Cleared Throne of Thunder Heroic up until Ra-Den, who killed me with a bit of effort. Seems solo unfriendly for the moment. Maybe with T19 gear it could happen.

EDIT: Attempted Blackrock Foundry. Gruul posed little trouble. Oregorger was almost a problem, but Empower Wards helped me out. Blast Furnace got me though, but I got it down to 6% at least.

Also attempted Highmaul. Kargath I got past, but Butcher killed me easily.

Both raids were solo attempted on Normal 10-man difficulty. Looks like I'll need more gear, and possibly more people. o.O LOL

[Cooper]

So I was looking at Legendaries in the Adventure Guide, and one of them gives a buff upon applying a loss of control effect to an enemy, and I'm not sure which Vengeance abilities would even apply. Imprison probably, but what else? Sigil of Misery? Illidan's Grasp?

[grizzlysaurusrex]

So I was looking at Legendaries in the Adventure Guide, and one of them gives a buff upon applying a loss of control effect to an enemy, and I'm not sure which Vengeance abilities would even apply. Imprison probably, but what else? Sigil of Misery? Illidan's Grasp?

Fel Eruption would also count. Legendaries don't work in PvP so Illidan's Grasp shouldn't proc it.

[Cooper]

Fel Eruption would also count. Legendaries don't work in PvP so Illidan's Grasp shouldn't proc it.

Ah, I forgot about the stun on Fel Eruption. Anyway, I noticed that particular legendary shows up for multiple classes, so it's not really intended FOR Vengeance specifically, so now it makes more sense to me.

[ambio]

So I was looking at Legendaries in the Adventure Guide, and one of them gives a buff upon applying a loss of control effect to an enemy, and I'm not sure which Vengeance abilities would even apply. Imprison probably, but what else? Sigil of Misery? Illidan's Grasp?

I have this ring, Fel Eruption goes on cooldown in the rotation (works even if they cant be stunned), haste and speed buff is OP for mythics

[Shimato]

I have this ring, Fel Eruption goes on cooldown in the rotation (works even if they cant be stunned), haste and speed buff is OP for mythics

@ ambio, have you done much testing with Veng in Mythic + ?

[Munkky]

Finally updated my guide for the past months worth of changes after being away. I'm ok with having the choice between Fel Devastation and Spirit Bomb, feels good.
@ambio If you wouldn't mind, could you do a log or 2 showing you with the ring equipped using all the various CC abilities on a target? I know how it is supposed to work, but would be nice to see how it actually works as I am doing my write up for legendaries still. Thanks!

[ambio]

Sure will do today

[Shimato]

I've not had chance to do much testing myself on beta, but following as much as I can on VODs and forums.

On the videos I've seen, Vengeance DH's health has been the most obscenely yo-yo bar I've ever seen. Has anyone who has been able to test (ambio?) had much difficulty in the amount of damage being taken at higher level rifts?

I've seen some youtube videos of people like Sco playing a DK and their HP bar didn't yo-yo anywhere near as much as the vengeance vids that I've seen. But then I don't know how good the vengeance tank was that I had watched.

[Munkky]

@Shimato
We are more of a healing style tank. Which means our health will go back and forth more. Dk isn't as much of a hamming tank as it used to, which is kind of where they are putting dh. I've seen dh tanking as high as 10 and 11 dungeons. In raiding I didn't really feel like it was an issue at any point.

Fueled by Pain proccing more and increased leech from spirit bomb helps to smooth or health, so we take more damage but use healing to make up for it. Similar to the old blood model.

[flzk]

i know you are kind of the advocate for demon hunter tanks here and it's your baby but at the current state of the class no serious progression guild will take a DH over any of the other tanks. the self healing is not even noticeable and the incoming damage without demon spikes is brutal in raids and dungeons 8 and above.
lets be real here, you could call it a healing style tank like 5 builds ago but now its just underwhelming compared to the other tanks

[ambio]

I've not had chance to do much testing myself on beta, but following as much as I can on VODs and forums.

On the videos I've seen, Vengeance DH's health has been the most obscenely yo-yo bar I've ever seen. Has anyone who has been able to test (ambio?) had much difficulty in the amount of damage being taken at higher level rifts?

I've seen some youtube videos of people like Sco playing a DK and their HP bar didn't yo-yo anywhere near as much as the vengeance vids that I've seen. But then I don't know how good the vengeance tank was that I had watched.

I havent gotten too crazy high just because I am not with a set group, the biggest thing I would say is healers want to keep us at full all the time which hurts our mitigation a bit and they burn their cooldowns for really no reason. The mobility is amazing and our sigils are really good oh shit buttons. I really dislike our 110 talents I think Spirit Barrier is clunky and should be off the GCD. I think Spirit Bomb is our best talent and really makes our healing seem constant and not so proc based, but I have had to drop it because of the ring. Our two CC sigils proc the ring and I am horde so arcane torrent does as well. But being able to use fel eruption on boss fights, I am guessing because of the permanent immune side of Fel Eruption spell, getting 15 percent increased haste every 35 seconds is pretty OP for sheer spam and GCD lowering.

Server have been meh today so will try to do a mythic this evening for logs