Page 7 of 10 FirstFirst ...
5
6
7
8
9
... LastLast
  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    What boggles my mind about Trump's campaign is that no one would touch it, to the point that Paul Manafort is running his national campaign. And no one has even blinked an eye at Manafort. Why would they? He's only a political consultant whose main job before this campaign was advocating for third world despots and rebel leaders, like Jonas Savimbi, Ferdinand Marcos, and Siad Barre, and Sese Soko. I guess if your clients are African/SE Asian dictators and no one knows who they are, they don't matter.

    Nevermind that he was rumored to be bought by the Pakistani ISI in a false-flag operation, and that he knew about the operation.

    There has been a lot of talk about the Trump-Putin connection. There is a very good chance there is something real there. It needs to be looked into (to paraphrase Trump). Paul Manafort and others on Trumps staff have ties to Putin's inner circle, and Trump's statements on defense policy would benefit, most of all, Putin and Russia.

    That New York Times interview two days ago was the straw that broke the camels back for a lot of people who were on the fence as to if there was something there. There probably is and sooner rather than later, it must be exposed. Or to paraphrase Slate, Hillary Clinton is really running against Vladmir Putin in November.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by usiris View Post
    Selection confirms I will not be voting at all this year.

    Pro TPP and deregulation, I'm gona pass.
    Yeah a lot of people feel the same way.

  3. #123
    Liberals can also take solace in this scenario. Kaine is just 58. In 9 years he'll be 67. Younger than Clinton.

    Kaine-Warren 2024.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    Yeah a lot of people feel the same way.
    TPP is going to passs no matter what anyway. Probably in December.

  4. #124
    NAFTA has been a disaster.

    It hasn't raised the standard of living in other countries. In fact income inequality in Mexico is worse because of NAFTA and the massive amount of factories built on the U.S./Mexican border is a clear indication what the end game is.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    Liberals can also take solace in this scenario. Kaine is just 58. In 9 years he'll be 67. Younger than Clinton.

    Kaine-Warren 2024.

    - - - Updated - - -



    TPP is going to passs no matter what anyway. Probably in December.
    There is no way to know the fate of TPP because there are lot of wildcards in play. Right now Clinton is trying to line it up where there are no dissenting voices and finish what Obama started. Truth is that there will be massive resistance if the election goes as I think it will.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    NAFTA has been a disaster.

    It hasn't raised the standard of living in other countries. In fact income inequality in Mexico is worse because of NAFTA and the massive amount of factories built on the U.S./Mexican border is a clear indication what the end game is.

    - - - Updated - - -



    There is no way to know the fate of TPP because there are lot of wildcards in play. Right now Clinton is trying to line it up where there are no dissenting voices and finish what Obama started. Truth is that there will be massive resistance if the election goes as I think it will.
    NAFTA didn't work because the moderate-right compromise on it was to trust the companies going overseas to keep their standards high, and trusted the countries involved to internally raise their standards.

    TPP specifically doesn't trust those things, and seeks to address them, by putting standards on trading partners and corporations that they have to meet in order to not have fines and tariffs imposed on them. A lot of controversy has been made of the "corporate right to sue" in TPP, except that it isn't a right to sue the U.S. to lower its standards for Vietnamese companies, but rather a right of appeal if and when they are fined for not meeting the standards set out by the agreement.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    That's a fair point, I should have been far less general because many Sanders voters did so in good faith and campaign strategy is simply off their radar. I apologize. But I think you understand specifically what type of Sander voter I'm referring to, and similarly what type of Trump voter.
    Yup, I do - and I for one believe that if they are that way, than they weren't actually Bernie Sanders voters.

    I seriously SERIOUSLY do not believe for a second that any great majority (indeed, even a 2% minority) of people that voted for Bernie did so purely because he started as an Independent outside of corporate-funding and NOT for any his issues... that just seems like it's ironically the absolute WRONG reason to vote any politician into office if that was the ONLY criteria! The whole point of a politician is to support your views and what you wish for to happen as solid government policy. Just throwing a guy in there because normal people threw money at him isn't forming any government policy other than possibly one.
    Last edited by mvaliz; 2016-07-23 at 05:38 AM.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    http://www.270towin.com/maps/y11e8
    (242 votes)
    + the follow state combinations.

    + Virginia (13) and Ohio (18) = 273
    + Florida (29) = 276
    + New Mexico (5), New Hampshire (4), Nevada (6), Colorado (9) and Iowa (6) = 272
    + Virginia (13), Colorado (9) and Nevada (6) = 270
    + Virginia (13), Colorado (9) and Iowa (6) = 270
    PA is by no means safe. It has been trending Republican for a while now.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Abysal View Post
    People really overestimate how much the VP pick increases the odds of winning a state.

    She may very well win Virginia but it won't be because of Kaine.
    538 recon that it can add about 2% to your vote in the state.

  8. #128
    Merely a Setback Sunseeker's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    In the state of Denial.
    Posts
    27,075
    This is probably the most boring choice she could have made, and it's going to cost her in apathetic voters who he'll do absolutely nothing for.
    Human progress isn't measured by industry. It's measured by the value you place on a life.

    Just, be kind.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    There has been a lot of talk about the Trump-Putin connection. There is a very good chance there is something real there. It needs to be looked into (to paraphrase Trump). Paul Manafort and others on Trumps staff have ties to Putin's inner circle, and Trump's statements on defense policy would benefit, most of all, Putin and Russia.

    That New York Times interview two days ago was the straw that broke the camels back for a lot of people who were on the fence as to if there was something there. There probably is and sooner rather than later, it must be exposed. Or to paraphrase Slate, Hillary Clinton is really running against Vladmir Putin in November.
    Why cant we unite with russia and take over THE WORLD?.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    I'll tell you why. Because I don't know what it is about this election - maybe some people are just that goddamn frustrated with the world as it is - but there has been this ongoing state of delusion by individuals on the left and the right about the way things are or should be, that are extremely far from accurate or probable. It's basically lying to themselves.
    very true, the amount of delusion it takes to see all the flaws in Hillary and not see those very flaws in Tump is quite astounding.

    what really strikes me is people on the left and right saying Trumps flumps and shortcomings are somehow strengths and not just the obvious weaknesses that they are. I'm inches away from unsubscribing to secular talk [on youtube] because the host continuously makes arguments about things like Trumps campaign being hilariously understaffed is somehow a GOOD thing for him leading into the general election.
    Last edited by Sky High; 2016-07-23 at 06:43 AM.

  11. #131
    Deleted

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Sydänyö View Post
    The Young Turks live in this irrational view of reality where the country is "mainly progressive." He said it in this very video. It's simply not true.

    You don't pick Warren when she alienates the middle and she's going to work for your side anyways. You only pick her to appease a left-side base, and you fear actually losing them. It might be a valid concern, if the other side is running anyone other than Donald Trump.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    The Young Turks live in this irrational view of reality where the country is "mainly progressive." He said it in this very video. It's simply not true.

    You don't pick Warren when she alienates the middle and she's going to work for your side anyways. You only pick her to appease a left-side base, and you fear actually losing them. It might be a valid concern, if the other side is running anyone other than Donald Trump.
    Plus you'd lose a Democratic Senator when you probably can't afford to lose one.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    You don't pick Warren when she alienates the middle and she's going to work for your side anyways.
    Nothing about Warren alienates anyone who wasn't already voting for Trump. Her major claim to fame is that she's one of the most cited academics on bankruptcy law in the country; that doesn't make her Vladimir Lenin, as much as the people who nearly destroyed capitalism would have us believe that she is.

    You don't pick Warren because she's the Senator in a state with (a) a Republican governor who would appoint a temporary successor and (b) has Martha Coakley, who has already twice run for the Senate seat Warren currently occupies and lost twice, and would probably run for it again and lose again. The current composition and rules of procedure in the Senate make every single seat critical; unless there is a credible guarantee that there is a candidate waiting in the wings who will replace that Senator with a minimum of risk, you keep Democratic Senators in the Senate. Given that reality, it would be insane to nominate Warren. Not as insane as nominating Sherrod Brown of Ohio, whose name is sometimes floated along with Warren, but still a very boneheaded choice when it comes to actual governing.

    Yes, Kaine is also a Senator. But Virginia has a Democratic governor - Terry McAuliffe - who is probably going to run to replace Kaine. McAuliffe presently has a ~60% approval rating among Virginia voters.

  15. #135
    Another damn reason why this race is still too close to call.

  16. #136
    Hillary and Kaine are going to get demolished in the live debates. can not wait to see it.

    Hillary with that fake forced smile but you can tell she is full of hatred for humanity under her skin.

    proof of reptilians? just look at her.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    Liberals can also take solace in this scenario. Kaine is just 58. In 9 years he'll be 67. Younger than Clinton.

    Kaine-Warren 2024.

    - - - Updated - - -



    TPP is going to passs no matter what anyway. Probably in December.
    IMO if you look at the demographic data the country isn't ready yet for a strongly economically liberal president. The Reagan boomers are too economically conservative and they currently make up too large a share of the voting population for it to happen. This was why though I a Sanders supporter wanted him to win did not expect it to happen.

    But looking at the changing demographics the younger generation are much much more liberal than boomers, they are also on track to be much more asset poor than their parents and far more in debt, and that sets up the basis for a very redistributive president, i.e. a very economically liberal one. We can already see that playing out with how Sanders supporters were overwhelmingly composed of under 40's. So in 2-3 presidential election cycles, and certainly in no more than 4, when this demographic bulge replaces boomers as the key deciding voting generation in terms of who gets to be president, their will be a Sanders clone sitting in the white house, and the country will see a decades long generational shift to the left. The Obama election and the growing strength of the Warren wing was the beginning of that process and a harbringer of what is to come.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    The entire reknown Republican intellectual base is siting it out. Most moderate Republicans are sitting it out. Most Republican money men are sitting it out. Most of the Republican's most experienced campaigners are sitting it out. Basically Trump Incorporated is borrowing the RNC infrastructure for 5 months.

    It's even more fundamental than that though. The Democratic Party is by far the larger party in this country. There are something like 55 million Republicans and 75 million Democrats in the US. Trump can't win - no Republican can - without a near total approval rating by his fellow Repbulicans, which Trump is nowhere close to having.

    So many of the most vocal people now have voted Republican for years, but kept their racist, fascist side under wraps. Not this year though. This year though... it's on full view.

    So what comes next? Tim Keane. That man in many ways (not all ways), should be a Republican. It's that the REpublican party has moved so far to the right, to grab as many of the declining number of far right and older voters, that people who otherwise would be Republicans are now "Conservative Democrats". The future Republican party should have people like Time Keane in it. A center right party, more analogous to the Christian Democrats in Germany or the Tories in the UK, than whatever the Republican Party has become.

    It's really easy to vote for Hillary when she picks someone like Tim Keane, because in his model, I see the future. He, in many ways, Represents this country better than anyone. In someways he's very liberal - if you support growing the entitlement programs, like most Americans do, that is liberal policy by definition. In someways he is very conservative - he's basically Reaganite on Trade and National Security, the latter specifically, like most Americans. A party emulating that to a degree will have tremendous success, much more than another decade of playing to the crazies.

    I'm hopeful about the Republican Party's future. Trumps defeat will wreck so many careers that need to be wrecked,it's going to be wide open to have Paul Ryan and Marco Rubio, who are a lot more moderate than they let on (see Marco Rubio on the Daily Show if you wanna know what I'm talking about), rebuild the Party into something worthy of this country.

    And these fascists supporting Trump... they have this stain on them for the rest of their lives. There is no forgiveness, no second chances.
    Its understandable why you want to believe the republican party will moderate but I think you are deluding yourself. The problem isn't the leadership but the base. For two decades now the right-wing media (fox news / hate radio / moonbat internet) have been building up a wall garden around their followers that has indoctrinated and radicalized them. Its also stupidized them in that its taught them to ignore evidence, data, and reality because the positions that media is putting forth conflicts with evidence, data, and reality. So for example we get the laughably ludicrous claim that "guns make you safer" and the republican base somehow believes it. All this makes it impossible to deradicalize the party.

    Now the indoctrination and radicalization process is still ongoing and those republican base voters are still moving further rightwards into batshit insane insanity territory. So how can the republican party nominate a moderate and sane conservative when its this base that decides who moves past the primaries? Moreover how can the republicans get sane congressmen and senators when this base also decides who gets put up for those races? And as we have seen with the republican antics in the house and senate those are moving into batshit insane territory too.

    I am afraid I foresee a further weakening and radicalization of the republican party. The only other choice is to kick out the batshit base and they make up too large a share of the party for that to happen. Eventually I expect the party to implode, break apart, and something new to form to fill the void.

    Oh and as a moderate sane republican you might be interested in reading this blog which I have been following for a few years now -

    https://goplifer.com/

    Its by a now ex-republican local party committeeman. If you go through his older posts he has been writing about how and why the republican party went insane and what the future most likely holds.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redtower View Post
    I don't think I ever hide the fact I was a national socialist. The fact I am a German one is what technically makes me a nazi
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    You haven't seen nothing yet, we trumpsters will definitely be getting some cool uniforms soon I hope.

  18. #138
    Titan Lenonis's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    14,390
    Quote Originally Posted by XxStavXx View Post
    Hillary and Kaine are going to get demolished in the live debates. can not wait to see it.

    Hillary with that fake forced smile but you can tell she is full of hatred for humanity under her skin.

    proof of reptilians? just look at her.
    Ignoring the hyperbole there is very little reason to think that Hillary won't be able to hold her own in debates. She has a ton of experience and Trump has already signaled how he will attack her. She'll be well prepared and ready to keep her cool through Trump's insults.

    Will she shine in the debates? Who knows. But this idea that she's going to crumble has no real rational foundation.

    I don't know enough about Kaine's debating style (or Pence for that matter) to know how that'll work, but I will say that Pence has a well known record of extreme views that create a huge weakness in a general election debate. Kaine's quite moderate which means he doesn't have that weakness.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Lenonis View Post
    Ignoring the hyperbole there is very little reason to think that Hillary won't be able to hold her own in debates. She has a ton of experience and Trump has already signaled how he will attack her. She'll be well prepared and ready to keep her cool through Trump's insults.

    Will she shine in the debates? Who knows. But this idea that she's going to crumble has no real rational foundation.

    I don't know enough about Kaine's debating style (or Pence for that matter) to know how that'll work, but I will say that Pence has a well known record of extreme views that create a huge weakness in a general election debate. Kaine's quite moderate which means he doesn't have that weakness.
    experience does not mean she is good.

    you have only got to look at her inability to properly debate against bernie. The only reason she won the primary as we now know is because she stole delegates through secret e-mails you can read these for yourself, and secondly because the public for some strange reason still listen to mainstream media instead of making up their own minds on what they should believe.

    you can defend her all you like but the answer to 1984 is 1776. The awakening is happening, be on the right side of history.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Lenonis View Post
    Ignoring the hyperbole there is very little reason to think that Hillary won't be able to hold her own in debates. She has a ton of experience and Trump has already signaled how he will attack her. She'll be well prepared and ready to keep her cool through Trump's insults.

    Will she shine in the debates? Who knows. But this idea that she's going to crumble has no real rational foundation.

    I don't know enough about Kaine's debating style (or Pence for that matter) to know how that'll work, but I will say that Pence has a well known record of extreme views that create a huge weakness in a general election debate. Kaine's quite moderate which means he doesn't have that weakness.
    You appear to be trying to discuss reality with an Alex Jones disciple. Good luck with that.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •