Mass shooting Olympia shopping center in Munich, Germany.

[Mormolyce]

No, it isn't. Close the borders. Among those already here, give citizenship only to people who have relevant qualifications and pass language tests. For civil war refuguees, give them temporary shelter. Reexamine that status on a yearly basis. Deport everybody else.

Oh and who's going to execute this strategy? The departments that failed to stop the Paris attackers entering France despite many of them being on terror watch lists? But you trust them to work out who has "relevant" qualifications.

What is relevant anyway? Like, a pilot's license? The 9/11 hijackers had those...

[Deleted]

You don't get to make your own definition of what it means to be German.

He isn't German. He's Iranian with German citizenship.

On topic. I don't think this was political. From the talk he had with the people on the rooftop it seems more like he was mentally ill. He doesn't fit the islamic terrorist angle and sure as hell doesn't fit the skinhead nazi one either.

The information I'm finding actually states that most Iranians living outside Iran are Christian or secular, while the Sunni population is concentrated in isolated areas of Iran which makes emigration difficult.

Citation needed. We have quite a few Iranians here, many came after the revolution in Iran went down. I.e they're old Shah supporters and a few others aswell. Many of them are in fact muslim but they're not usually particularly religious. They don't fit the bill in that regard and aren't one of the recruiting targets for groups such as ISIS because of the Sunni and Shia divide.

So far from the rooftop discussion it seems he was mentally ill rather than politically motivated. He's most certainly NOT a German far right neo nazi though and I doubt he was screaming anti foreigner chants. The whole exchange on the rooftop should now be a lot clearer than before, with many of the insults being hurled at him rather than coming from him.

The question is, how do EU citizens find guns. I have no idea where to search at to get myself a gun. And the second question is, how do they aim? Even if I got hold of a gun, I think if I tried to fire, I would injure myself.

You can get guns. But it involves immense background checks, a long membership of a gun association, proving you need them for sport purposes and so on and on. The vast mayority of guns used in terrorist attacks or when someone goes on a killing spree tend to be illegal. It's far easier to get weapons illegal in general.

It's why I find the call for more weapon laws and regulations so adorable. We have certain lebanese family clans having shoot outs and increasingly being armed to the teeth, while the city council is ever extending their "weapon ban zone" around the inner city. So far it does the opposite of what it is doing, increasingly banning you from carrying anything resembling a weapon while every new arrival who wants to turn street mugger will have an assortment of knives within hours.

Oh and who's going to execute this strategy? The departments that failed to stop the Paris attackers entering France despite many of them being on terror watch lists? But you trust them to work out who has "relevant" qualifications.

What is relevant anyway? Like, a pilot's license? The 9/11 hijackers had those...

So you're saying it shouldn't even be tried, given we have the infrastructure and many of those peope could quite easily be deported. There's also another way many people forget about, cut them off from welfare. A great many criminal and problematic people who have arrived in recent times from the outside do heavily rely on welfare and other government grants. They couldn't sustain themselves inside Europe otherwise.

Cut it off and they will self deport, are forced to in fact. Obviously offer them to aid them with the tour back to their country of origin. If they refuse to take that opportunity they can see how they'll make it back once the money runs out.

[Hooked]

I notice the scumbag is referred to as a german-iranian. How come hes not labelled iranian-german like in the usa people are ethnicity then american?. Thought it was odd is all.

[Mormolyce]

Is "German" an ethnicity or a nationality?

Ethnicities are pretty hazy in Western Europe, you could take a German who's lived his entire life in Germany and a Frenchman who's lived his entire life in France, look back through their family tree and realise the Frenchman is more "German" than the German. Like most European nations Germany is defined much more by nationality than ethnicity.

[Deleted]

You don't get to make your own definition of what it means to be German.

Yes he is, it's the definition of ethnic german. One born outisde of Germany that get's his citizenship later on it's not a german. Dunno why people are still questioning who this guy was and why he did it. He was an extremist islamist that did the attacks for ISIS.

[Mormolyce]

So you're saying it shouldn't even be tried

I'm saying it's a dumb plan that won't work, because you're just doing the usual knee-jerk blame the immigrants thing without looking at the actual source of terrorist attacks. If France had shot dead every single immigrant in the country - all 6 million or so - on the 12th of November 2015, they STILL would've had the Paris attacks the following day.

Closing your borders won't keep terrorists out.

[Deleted]

Yes he is, it's the definition of ethnic german. One born outisde of Germany that get's his citizenship later on it's not a german. Dunno why people are still questioning who this guy was and why he did it. He was an extremist islamist that did the attacks for ISIS.

For the relativism and blurring of lines one just needs to take a country such as Japan. Imagine he had been born and grown up there to Iranian parents. Would he be Japanese? Most certainly not. Everyone would recognize he holds Japanese citizenship but is not ethnically Japanese and never will be. Even his children wont be unless he marries a Japanese women.

The problem is that due to the influence of US on politics and such their standards are often applied. There's no "American" ethnicity thus it's solely reliant upon citizenship. Which is from where they start to judge others and those for whom it is usefull tend to resort to that aswell when making judgements.

I'm saying it's a dumb plan that won't work

The Australian outcome disagrees, you're also excluding from the get go all ways in which this could be made to work. Mostly because of ideological reasons.

because you're just doing the usual knee-jerk blame the immigrants thing without looking at the actual source of terrorist attacks.

Oh f* off. My mother is a migrant herself. I'm not blaming all migrants. This is inherently dishonest and a very obvious attempt at slander. I'm blaming certain groups and certain types of immigrants whom a country is better off. Immigrants who do not have a job before they enter a country or in short order, are a drain on resources. Immigrants whom tend to dominate the crime statistics are NOT beneficial and never will be.

When my mother's parents came here they already had jobs, they didn't get any aid in integrating but did so themselves. It's a huge and very important difference one has to always remember. The motivation and attitude of people aswell as their qualifications. Otherwise you end up opening the door for abuse of the welfare system and to attract the bottom feeders of any group who exist aplenty and most everyone is happy to dump on someone else.

If France had shot dead every single immigrant in the country - all 6 million or so - on the 12th of November 2015, they STILL would've had the Paris attacks the following day.

Once again with the generalization. Please do tell me how an immigrant from Norway is in any kind of way relatable to let's say, one from Somalia. Stop throwing them together, it's dishonest. You also chose an arbitary starting point in time here. Ignoring how failed the immigration policies of the past are who saw millions move into Europe who had neither the education nor IQ to ever realistically benefit the countries they moved into and who would've always ended up a drain on society.

This obviously doesn't mean it will end criminality or terror attacks but it will massively cut down on them. You'll always have the usual crazy going off the short end or fingy mc fingers waiting to mug someone. But the numbers will be vastly lower across the board. And you will lose the ideological and cultural component currently leading to disaster in Europe, which is on fast track to emulate the Kosovo or Lebanon outcome.

Closing your borders won't keep terrorists out.

Citation needed. Then again, it's not about closing borders in general, stop pretending this is a black and white issue. It's about clamping down in certain groups, making sure people who inherently aren't beneficial to the society taking them in and so on are better vetted and not supported through welfare and other means. Forcing many of them to return on their own as they couldn't sustain themselves in Europe.

[THE Bigzoman]

Ethnicity=Nationality? Womp Womp.

I better get some sleep.

[Deleted]

Is Merkel's stasi still sitting on the identity of the terrorist?

[Deleted]

Is Merkel's stasi still sitting on the identity of the terrorist?

Prob. Tho they might be hard at work to monitor and raid other FB secret groups that talk bad about refugees. I mean what's worst than an islamic terrorist? A white german citizens not agreeing with Merkel's immigration policy!

ps: Also the rule is the more the media/govt. sits on the terrorist identity the more he was a islamic non- or part-citizen.

[Vilendor]

[Deleted]

If your parents are from China and you're born in Canada, we consider you a Canadian. That's how citizenship works.

You don't get to make your own definition of what it means to be German.

Hilarious. The only one making false claims - either uninformed or lying - is, like usual, you. German citizenship law works different than those of France or the USA. Simply being born in Germany constitutes no claim for Citizenship.



Wiki explanation: Deutschland verwendete das Geburtsortsprinzip bis zum Beginn des 19. Jahrhunderts. Seit der Einführung der ersten Staatsangehörigkeitsgesetze (Preußen: 1842) wurde das Abstammungsprinzip als herrschender Erwerbstatbestand eingeführt. Seit dem Reichs- und Staatsangehörigkeitsgesetz 1913 galt im Deutschen Reich ein reines ius sanguinis. Mit der Staatsangehörigkeitreform 2000 wurde mit dem sogenannten „Optionsmodell“ ein ergänzendes ius soli für die zweite Einwanderergeneration eingeführt.



full overview: Übersicht der Änderungen

Mit dem am 01.01.2000 in Kraft getretenen, grundsätzlich überarbeiteten Staatsangehörigkeitsgesetz hat es erhebliche Änderungen im deutschen Staatsangehörigkeitsgesetz gegeben. Weitere Überarbeitungen hat das Staatsangehörigkeitsgesetz mit dem Inkrafttreten des Zuwanderungsgesetzes zum 01.01.2005 und zum 28.08.2007 erfahren. Am 20.12.2014 ist das Zweite Gesetz zur Änderung des Staatsangehörigkeitsgesetzes in Kraft getreten, das die Optionsregelung für in Deutschland geborene Kinder ausländischer Eltern neu regelt.

Hier finden Sie die wichtigsten Eckpunkte der aktuellen Vorschriften des Staatsangehörigkeitsrechts.

Bestimmungen für in Deutschland lebende Ausländer

Seit dem Jahr 2000 erwerben Kinder von Ausländern bei Geburt in Deutschland die deutsche Staatsangehörigkeit, wenn ein Elternteil seit mindestens 8 Jahren rechtmäßig in Deutschland lebt und ein unbefristetes Aufenthaltsrecht besitzt. Diese Kinder müssen sich grundsätzlich mit Vollendung des 21. Lebensjahres zwischen der deutschen und der ausländischen Staatsangehörigkeit der Eltern entscheiden, die sogenannte Optionspflicht. Durch das am 20.12.2014 in Kraft getretene Zweite Gesetz zur Änderung des Staatsangehörigkeitsgesetzes wird der Kreis der Optionspflichtigen jedoch weitreichend eingeschränkt.

Mehr Informationen zur neuen Optionsregelung finden Sie hier.

Spätaussiedler erwerben nach § 7 Staatsangehörigkeitsgesetz (StAG) die deutsche Staatsangehörigkeit automatisch, sobald ihnen die Bescheinigung nach § 15 des Bundesvertriebenen- und Flüchtlingsgesetzes nach der Einreise in Deutschland ausgestellt wird.

Generell haben Ausländer unter bestimmten weiteren Voraussetzungen bereits nach 8 Jahren rechtmäßigen Aufenthalts in der Bundesrepublik Deutschland einen Einbürgerungsanspruch. Die Mindestaufenthaltsdauer ist für Ehegatten Deutscher in der Regel kürzer. Für die Einbürgerung ist der Nachweis ausreichender deutscher Sprachkenntnisse erforderlich. Straflosigkeit und Verfassungstreue sind weitere Kriterien. Auch muss der Einzubürgernde in der Lage sein, sich finanziell selbst zu unterhalten.

Das Prinzip der Vermeidung von Mehrstaatigkeit bleibt auch heute noch kennzeichnend für das Staatsangehörigkeitsrecht. Einbürgerungswillige müssen also prinzipiell ihre bisherige Staatsangehörigkeit ablegen. Jedoch gibt es seit dem 01.01.2000 großzügigere Ausnahmeregelungen, durch die die Beibehaltung der bisherigen Staatsangehörigkeit gestattet wird. Diese gelten z.B. für ältere Personen und politisch Verfolgte. Wenn die Entlassung aus der bisherigen Staatsangehörigkeit rechtlich unmöglich oder den Betreffenden nicht zumutbar ist, z.B. wegen zu hoher Entlassungsgebühren oder entwürdigender Entlassungsmodalitäten, dürfen diese gleichfalls ihre bisherige Staatsangehörigkeit beibehalten. Dies gilt auch, wenn mit der Entlassung aus der bisherigen Staatsangehörigkeit erhebliche Nachteile, insbesondere wirtschaftlicher oder vermögensrechtlicher Art verbunden wären.

Seit dem 28.08.2007 werden Staatsangehörige aus den EU-Ländern und der Schweiz in Deutschland unter Hinnahme der Mehrstaatigkeit eingebürgert. Ob eine Mehrstaatigkeit nach den Rechtsvorschriften der jeweiligen Ursprungsländern auch dort akzeptiert wird, muss im Vorfeld erfragt werden.

Der Gesetzestext selbst sowie statistische Angaben zur ausländischen Bevölkerung in Deutschland finden sich auf der Internetseite der Beauftragten der Bundesregierung für Migration, Flüchtlinge und Integration. Das innerhalb der Bundesregierung für die Staatsangehörigkeitsrechtsreform zuständige Bundesministerium des Innern hat auf seiner Homepage weitere Einzelheiten zum Staatsangehörigkeitsrecht aufgeführt.

Zuständig für Auskünfte sind für Ausländer in Deutschland im Allgemeinen die Staatsangehörigkeitsbehörden der kreisfreien Städte und Landkreise.

from http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/DE/Ei...echt_node.html

[Deleted]

The bodies are not even cold and the trolls are crawling out of the woodwork to feast.

[Super Friendly Kitty Cat]

If your parents are from China and you're born in Canada, we consider you a Canadian. That's how citizenship works.

No, you call them Chinese Canadian.

[primalmatter]

No, you call them Chinese Canadian.

Din't try to explain it to them...

These people would call a dog born in a barn a horse...

- - - Updated - - -

I'm saying it's a dumb plan that won't work, because you're just doing the usual knee-jerk blame the immigrants thing without looking at the actual source of terrorist attacks. If France had shot dead every single immigrant in the country - all 6 million or so - on the 12th of November 2015, they STILL would've had the Paris attacks the following day.

Closing your borders won't keep terrorists out.

I question how you reached this conclusion to be honest.

[eschatological]

I was born in India, and moved to the States when I was a kid. I've only known American culture my whole life. I speak English as my first language. I've been educated in only American schools. I've had American citizenship since I was 7.

I say I'm American. After all, I am a naturalized citizen. By every definition I know of, my nationality is "American." My culture is American. My ethnicity? Sure, that's Indian, but it's irrelevant.

Are you saying I'm Indian, and not American? Because I can't relate to being from India at all. At best, my physical geneology is Indian. I like Indian food, that's for damn sure. But I'm American, through and through. Nationality refers to one's citizenship. Ethnicity refers to one's actual geneology. Which one matters more to you differs from person to person. From the exchanges we know of, this guy seemed to desperately want to be considered German, and had German citizenship or at least legal status. We don't know the full details about how much he considered himself Iranian, how important that heritage was to him, but it seems that at least his nationality was German, possibly even his culture, and only his ethnicity is Iranian.

[primalmatter]

I was born in India, and moved to the States when I was a kid. I've only known American culture my whole life. I speak English as my first language. I've been educated in only American schools. I've had American citizenship since I was 7.

I say I'm American. After all, I am a naturalized citizen. By every definition I know of, my nationality is "American." My culture is American. My ethnicity? Sure, that's Indian, but it's irrelevant.

Are you saying I'm Indian, and not American? Because I can't relate to being from India at all. At best, my physical geneology is Indian. I like Indian food, that's for damn sure. But I'm American, through and through. Nationality refers to one's citizenship. Ethnicity refers to one's actual geneology. Which one matters more to you differs from person to person. From the exchanges we know of, this guy seemed to desperately want to be considered German, and had German citizenship or at least legal status. We don't know the full details about how much he considered himself Iranian, how important that heritage was to him, but it seems that at least his nationality was German, possibly even his culture, and only his ethnicity is Iranian.

Should of stayed in Iran. Lot of people wouldn't be dead if he did.

We are fast getting to the point where people are putting their trust in ethnicity rather then nationality for when it comes to who they consider a danger or not. You might not like this but the situation is so far out of control I can't see how it can be stopped. We are far past the point of words. Violence towards people of middle eastern descent will rise unless they actively take a part of stopping attacks like this.

People are sick of turning on the new every fucking week at this point and finding out some middle eastern guy killed a dozen or so people give or take.

[Deleted]

15 dead confirmed.

Idiots.
It's 9 dead, 16 wounded.

And no, it wasn't a refugee. He was a german-iranian. That means his parent's are from Iran but he grew up in germany. Most of the terrorist recently have such a profile, the one who drove the truck in France aswell.

[eschatological]

I do like how you dodged the question. How do you even know if he ever was in Iran?

What if he was German-born and raised, of Iranian ethnicity?

Furthermore, how is it not bigotry to say a person's nationality isn't who they really are, that their ethnicity is what determines who they are and what you can class them as?

[primalmatter]

I do like how you dodged the question. How do you even know if he ever was in Iran?

What if he was German-born and raised, of Iranian ethnicity?

Furthermore, how is it not bigotry to say a person's nationality isn't who they really are, that their ethnicity is what determines who they are and what you can class them as?

It is.

I am saying that when a dozen people are killed by that ethnicity a week people are going to attack that ethnicity.

You are morally right. The problem is this has become such a common occurrence no one cares anymore.