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  1. #321
    The Undying Kalis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linadra View Post
    And if it's that one last end of career move either way, why would she pick anything other than she wants to? Whichever it will be when she decides.
    She is the leader of the Conservative Party, not Oliver Cromwell.

  2. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linadra View Post
    And if it's that one last end of career move either way, why would she pick anything other than she wants to? Whichever it will be when she decides.
    My point is that it isn't the last move of her career. Ignoring the referendum would be, but going through with it wouldn't. Maybe she goes down in history as being the person who started what would turn out to be a disastrous exit from the EU - but that won't be known until many years time.

    51% of the electorate who could be arsed to vote, more or less, seem to think that leave is the right option. I don't see how going through with that would end her career. By the time we feel the proper sting of the possible economic effects, she won't be in power anymore.

  3. #323
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    And for all we know Theresa May could delay until the next general election, then the next PM could also delay or scrap the idea altogether. It's also possible the bill to activate article 50 passes the Commons.
    And for all we know, the Pope is secretly the Buddha.

  4. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    And for all we know Theresa May could delay until the next general election...
    Not a chance, she would have a revolt in the House from the Tories if she tried that.

  5. #325
    Quote Originally Posted by Hjalmtyr View Post
    My point is that it isn't the last move of her career. Ignoring the referendum would be, but going through with it wouldn't. Maybe she goes down in history as being the person who started what would turn out to be a disastrous exit from the EU - but that won't be known until many years time.

    51% of the electorate who could be arsed to vote, more or less, seem to think that leave is the right option. I don't see how going through with that would end her career. By the time we feel the proper sting of the possible economic effects, she won't be in power anymore.
    And won't be elected again, once people feel the sting and are disgruntled. So in any case it's the last move.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

    Last edited by Thwart; Today at 05:21 PM. Reason: Infracted for flaming
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    millennials were the kids of the 9/11 survivors.

  6. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linadra View Post
    And won't be elected again, once people feel the sting and are disgruntled. So in any case it's the last move.
    This is one of the first big things she is to do as Prime Minister. That's not what 'last move' means. I doubt that going through with the Brexit will result in her being forced to resign.

  7. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maklor View Post
    Not sure an EU country can make special rules with a non-EU country about these things.
    Borders are more of a Schengen issue and what EU politician wants to go down as the one that restarted the Troubles? Special provisions will be made, because it is not worth not making those provisions, it could cause an Irexit and nobody needs more nation-exit portmanteaus.

  8. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by Hjalmtyr View Post
    This is one of the first big things she is to do as Prime Minister. That's not what 'last move' means. I doubt that going through with the Brexit will result in her being forced to resign.
    The time will be up on that PM spot eventually, and then she might aswell seek janitors jobs. Unless it's endless dictator position where you must yourself resign from.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

    Last edited by Thwart; Today at 05:21 PM. Reason: Infracted for flaming
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    millennials were the kids of the 9/11 survivors.

  9. #329
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    So many deluded people here, Ill just leave you to guys to fester in this pit of salt and grime.

  10. #330
    what you fail to realize is. with the exception of a few places.. people voted out.

    the Germans have agreed, out is out
    the French have agreed, out is out
    even May has agreed, out is out.

    what makes you. a forum poster so confident? xD

    the hubris is hillarious.

    the vote was held. Leave won. grow up and deal with it. pasting a few bits from the independent (which it is not btw.) hardly means anything.
    "There are no substitutes for violence of action and volume of fire. Move forward and shoot, always forward and shooting. The enemy will choose to fight and die or live and run either way move forward and shoot and he will fear you absolutely."
    - Otto Skoernzy

  11. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linadra View Post
    And you can't do crap about those with countries outside EU, so go invoke the article, and the sooner you can get to that.



    So invoke the article and take the 2 years you have for dialogue.

    ..Do you realize no one here can invoke the article? You've been wrong on every single thing I've seen you post on this thread so I'm not sure if you actually understand that no one here can invoke the article.

  12. #332
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    If they are going to stay they should make that clear fast, EU won't stand for that ambiguity for long as it hurts the economy more the longer they wait.

    About the UK citizens living in the EU; most of them prolly already have taken actions to get citizenship for the country they live in, usually quite easy as they have been here for several years.

  13. #333
    I just found it rather hilarious that after the leave campaign won, all the leave figure heads didn't actually want to lead anything. so the ppl who may have had some sort of plan decided they actually didn't want to try to corral the fustercluck, nigel farrage stopping being a politician was basically like the ultimate dose of irony. it just goes to show they never had any sort of plan for winning. wouldn't have been so bad if they actually stepped up after creating all that pointless hot air. now were left with politicians that didn't want this, apparently trade negotiations are going ok, i did read that countries are trying to secure new deals already.

    but I personally saw the benefit in the single market, I can understand nationalism if you live in the middle ages, the world most likely felt a whole lot bigger, but globalism is kinda more important in these modern times. we're never going to get over our petty differences if we keep each other at arms reach.
    Last edited by Heathy; 2016-07-23 at 10:20 AM.

  14. #334
    if brexit doesnt happen UK is not worth more than the banana state of turkey. like it or it not it got voted.

  15. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linadra View Post
    So since there was no plan or anyone having a single clue how to do it, nullify the vote? There's a proposal. Otherwise get on with it, and see if people learn a lesson of voting without a clue, or having any plans made before the vote.



    If it tanks, it's exactly on the Brexiters for not having any plans or even a clue on how to actually accomplish it. Why sweep that under a rug instead of pointing it out with what they wanted? Invoke the article.
    You have this all hopelessly wrong.

    There was never a "plan" for either side, at least in the way you are implying.

    There were various reasons why leaving won the vote.

    1) Remote governance whereby external courts can overrule our own.
    2) The complete inability to create free trade deals without the other 27 states agreeing on every letter.
    3) Immigration controls.

    These were the three main issues and the issues require addressing.

    The first point is easy to address, revoke the European Communities Act.

    The second is the reason Article 50 is being delayed, as we discuss, the UK is already in negotiations with countries outside of the EU to setup free trade deals. The moment we enact article 50, we can begin what we've been hindered from doing for 40 years... Free Trade.

    The third issue is to quite simply put, have control over the country's immigration, this does not mean no immigration.

    The UK is essentially leaving a job to find a new job. You do not leave your current one until you have a new one lined up. What you're suggesting is that the UK just quits and then finds itself in a tight spot without any job to go to... Despite the decision being ENTIRELY up to the UK. The UK can invoke the article WHENEVER they want and WHENEVER they feel ready.

  16. #336
    I am Murloc!
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    Oh, a tiny bit of Brexit: UK said goodbye to its presidency of EU council in 2017.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presid...t_of_rotations

    http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles...us-helm.619585

    the real decision is still the invocation of article 50, dont be fooled. you can resign from the presidency easily without merits to the idea afterwards.

  17. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Batman View Post
    We even saw that the demographics of who voted stay over who voted to remain were divided down lines of age. Old farts who are dying in 20 years and who won't be affected by staying or remaining voted to leave the EU largely. Young people who will be bearing the consequences of this largely voted to remain.
    Only 28% or so of people aged 18-25 voted. If the youth actually got off their fat ass and voted maybe you'd actually have remain win.

  18. #338
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    To be blunt: in referendum without limits a 52 % vote out of ~70% attending population is the same as a 99,9 % vote of all voters. And the minority is expected to stay silent, as per democracy rules the minority has no say and is of utter irrelevance.
    Tyranny of the dumb ? yup, is possible, but democracy is per definition infallible and the result of majority vote is always the best decision ever, moronic or not.

  19. #339
    Quote Originally Posted by ranzino View Post
    To be blunt: in referendum without limits a 52 % vote out of ~70% attending population is the same as a 99,9 % vote of all voters. And the minority is expected to stay silent, as per democracy rules the minority has no say and is of utter irrelevance.
    Tyranny of the dumb ? yup, is possible, but democracy is per definition infallible and the result of majority vote is always the best decision ever, moronic or not.
    That is not how democracy works at all.

    Take any other election as an example. The Tory party won the last election, but that doesn't mean that all other parties are expected to remain silent in Westminster until 2020. Not every parliamentary vote is a whipped vote, and the opposition has the right to make their case to members of the majority party. If members of the majority party are convinced by these arguments that the official party line of the majority party does not benefit their constituents then they may vote against the party line. (in the case of an open vote)

    Brexit itself wasn't the party line of the leadership of the majority party in government.

    The same is true with this. Maybe brexit is inevitable, maybe it isn't. I don't know. What I do know is that there are thousands upon thousands of decisions involved if we do leave. There are thousands of different versions of brexit that could happen. People who campaigned to remain in the EU are just as entitled to a voice on what brexit should look like as those who campaigned to leave.
    Last edited by klogaroth; 2016-07-23 at 01:09 PM.

  20. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by klogaroth View Post
    That is not how democracy works at all.

    Take any other election as an example. ....
    ok, parliament has opposition and sometimes even majority changes, usually leading to general elections. But with a referendum the vote is absolute; no second chance given and definetely no second chance to change your own vote. A referendum is much harsher than election in such matters.

    You can avoid brexit completely, if you ( read westminster and politicians elsewhere) are bold enough and declare the ref a silly idea of uninformed people or a risk too high regarding economics and complicated rulesets.
    Maybe Scotland "helps" you by cast a veto May somehow accepts to "preserve the union" or whatever she can made up.

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