1. #3101
    Quote Originally Posted by Turturin the Warlock View Post
    Destro became more popular as the expansion went on, it had almost nothing to do with mechanics
    The argument that the spec became more popular over time implies that it wasn't particularly popular to begin with, which directly counters the dude I quoted who said that "everyone thought MoP Destro was awesome the whole expansion".

    In fact, Destruction got buffed in 5.1, buffed in 5.2, buffed in mid-5.2 hotfixes, and buffed in 5.4. That's not really indicative of a spec that "was awesome the whole expansion".

    e: Sorry, didn't notice there were so many new posts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rethul Ur No View Post
    We're missing the old 1 second GCD from Chaotic Energy, aren't we now? Back to 1.5 reduced by haste like the other casters? That might contribute to the spec feeling slow.
    Yeah, I've noticed I'm actually having a bit of muscle memory problems relating to the slower GCD. And also to Havoc not being a super-short GCD. But even so, with all the new things going on, talents-wise, the spec still feels faster to me right now because I'm operating on new parameters.
    Last edited by bio347; 2016-07-22 at 10:51 PM.

  2. #3102
    Quote Originally Posted by Netherspark View Post
    After playing Destruction for 9 years I can say for the first time that I do not like playing it. It's agonizingly slow, it's dull, it's uninspired.

    Destruction for so long has been very fast paced, yet interspersed with long-cast nukes. The mix of instants, quick casts and long casts blended really well. But in Legion now everything is slow and awkward. We're missing so many tools. I feel crippled.
    I pretty much feel the same about most of that, and i'm not fond of the damage shifting over to immolate.

  3. #3103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenzha View Post
    I'm not fond of the damage shifting over to immolate.
    This is the only thing I agree with, I also am not very fond of this sudden Immolate experiment Blizzard is conducting.

    I would love to have that power go into direct damage instead, it's not much to ask to have one spec which is not living or dying with some over time effect/s.

    I honestly wish they would make Backdraft a viable alternative for those who are not psyched over Roaring Blaze - Roaring Blaze is just a bit too highly tuned now (OR Backdraft undertuned).

  4. #3104
    Quote Originally Posted by bio347 View Post
    The argument that the spec became more popular over time implies that it wasn't particularly popular to begin with, which directly counters the dude I quoted who said that "everyone thought MoP Destro was awesome the whole expansion".

    In fact, Destruction got buffed in 5.1, buffed in 5.2, buffed in mid-5.2 hotfixes, and buffed in 5.4. That's not really indicative of a spec that "was awesome the whole expansion".
    I said it didn't have notable mechanics changes beyond the mid first tier kjc buff. Damage buffs are not mechanics changes.

    Dude I was responding too was claiming some big change in playstyle caused increase in popularity. Demonstrably false since mechanics didn't change when he was asserting they did.

  5. #3105
    If only destruction had a BIG nuke to shift some of that silly immolate DOT stuff into... you know, seeing as we have affliction for DOTS, and this being our Direct Damage spec... Wouldn't it be cool if we had some big CHAOTIC bolt of damage...

  6. #3106
    I haven't tested anything yet (I am in a Greek island drinking coffee half meter from sea) but do you like this trade of quality for quantity of chaos bolts? I liked the fear factor behind this spell. Don't want it to be a common spell
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  7. #3107
    Personally no, but it was gonna happen with us not having any real major CD anymore.

    They actually buffed chaosbolt from the wod number iirc quite a bit, its just there's no dark soul and crazy trinkets to stack with it anymore.
    ..and so he left, with terrible power in shaking hands.

  8. #3108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rayaleith View Post
    I haven't tested anything yet (I am in a Greek island drinking coffee half meter from sea) but do you like this trade of quality for quantity of chaos bolts? I liked the fear factor behind this spell. Don't want it to be a common spell
    So-so, on one hand it beats casting Incinerate in my book - remember the drudgery of early Highmaul with GoServ where you had to frikkin' Incinerate spam for 20 seconds just to be able to do 1 Chaos Bolt? So, I'm glad we are not there.

    On the other hand frequently casting 3 (2.5 talented) seconds baseline cast time spell is not terribly amazing either. Honestly I am a bit surprised they did not drop it to 2.5 seconds baseline, Chaos Bolt hits decently, but it lost quite a bit of it's power to fuel things like rifts, pets and Roaring Blaze (a talent I loathe for this reason).

    Let's say, it is okay-ish-ish, but I would hope to see Chaos Bolt cast time getting reduced by another 0.5 seconds to make this whole thing faster.

  9. #3109
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    WoD6.2 destro GoSac/Cata build had, among other things, almost perfect balance and interaction between builders and spenders. The legion iteration of the spec is much worse in comparison... which is not surprising since it's worse in almost every way.

  10. #3110
    People asking for a cast time reduction of chaosbolt is just a symptom of backdraft being removed from the class, especially in PvP.

    Saw some arenas with Cartoonz, and Chaosbolt didn't even remove 1/5 of a character's healthpool, it's truly pathetic for the cast time and resource generation it requires.

    Meanwhile flame cannon fire mage is spitting out like 9 pyroblasts within a combustion and with the pvp talents he's getting combustions more often. Pyroblast is also instant cast and ends up doing comparable damage.

    It also really irks me that the aoe fire spread fire mages get for free, we as warlocks have to talent for with FnB and Cataclysm. It's just awful.

  11. #3111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucrece View Post
    It also really irks me that the aoe fire spread fire mages get for free, we as warlocks have to talent for with FnB and Cataclysm. It's just awful.
    To be fair, Fire mages not talenting Living Bomb have no AoE whatsoever either. And in regards to spamming instants in PvP, check out Firestone PvP talent.

  12. #3112
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    To be fair, Fire mages not talenting Living Bomb have no AoE whatsoever either. And in regards to spamming instants in PvP, check out Firestone PvP talent.
    You know what the sad part about all of this is in pvp? even with fire stone and soul harvest chaos bolt hits for 400k ~ and it has a cast time, totally baffling in comparison to pretty much any other burst centered spec using cds, heck fire mage just needs to hit back to back instant pyros to deal more than 400k no sweat involved.

    I feel chaos bolt is too under tuned for any pvp/pve scenario in general, they should just shift power from immolate into chaos bolt as that would fit more the "class fantasy theme" imo.
    Last edited by wholol; 2016-07-23 at 10:30 AM.

  13. #3113
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    Quote Originally Posted by wholol View Post
    You know what the sad part about all of this is in pvp? even with fire stone and soul harvest chaos bolt hits for 400k ~ and it has a cast time, totally baffling in comparison to pretty much any other burst centered spec using cds, heck fire mage just needs to hit back to back instant pyros to deal more than 400k no sweat involved.

    I feel chaos bolt is too under tuned for any pvp/pve scenario in general, they should just shift power from immolate into chaos bolt as that would fit more the "class fantasy theme" imo.
    Who said you have to use Chaos Bolt with it? Spam Shadowburn with auto-crit and you can indeed chain 5+ Shadowburns no swetarino unlike Pyroblasts. Heck you can cleave them with Havoc too, can Fire Mage do that?

    But other than that I agree, I don't like this Roaring Blaze and Immolate hard on going on (and imp for that matter either), I would like that power to be shifted back to Chaos Bolt.

  14. #3114
    Chaos bolt with firestone hits more then 400k even without the Dark soul. With the calculation I was doing, if everything is done right, chaos bolt can hit up to 900k with firestone, soul harvest, mastery luck (this is the greatest problem, mastery is retarded...), initiation and orc racial. I am not in the beta atm, but the calculation was done purely from my math knowledge and a sample of data I gathered from friends in the beta and videos by Hazzed and Cobrak.

    It is looking grim, but I am able to perform even on ptr without firestone/cremation. What I recommend ppl should try out on beta is the following

    http://www.wowhead.com/talent-calc/w...struction/MN90
    http://www.wowhead.com/talent-pvp/wa...estruction/J84

    A one trick chaos bolt pony. Start of with pet to control the start of a duel/match (sacrifice and use dark pact to defend) pull out a firestone (with soulharvest) Chaos bolt and a cremation conflagrate. Afterwards spawn 2 portals and a CoFrag and continue on spamming shadowburn/confla.. Doing the soulharvest/orc racial chaos bolt on ptr makes me crit for about 67k in duels. COmbined with shadowburn hitting like a truck I am able to beat anything but prots/blood/feral. But thats ptr, and dueling is what I do best.

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  15. #3115
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Who said you have to use Chaos Bolt with it? Spam Shadowburn with auto-crit and you can indeed chain 5+ Shadowburns no swetarino unlike Pyroblasts. Heck you can cleave them with Havoc too, can Fire Mage do that?

    But other than that I agree, I don't like this Roaring Blaze and Immolate hard on going on (and imp for that matter either), I would like that power to be shifted back to Chaos Bolt.
    Yeah but SB spamming just feels meh, I just hate the fact that we can play the spec without having to cast CB at all , seems awkward.

    @Janke I've tried that build quite a few times tbh, at best I got a 500k when the stars were aligned, don't forget that our mastery is pre-set with the templates so don't expect your stats to be any useful even with higher ilvl ( 10% more shit is still shit ).

    Edit: the only way they could change this is to directly buff CB, if they buffed the mastery template instead it would affect SB too and thus the SB spec would still be the better option for pvp destro.
    Last edited by wholol; 2016-07-23 at 12:51 PM.

  16. #3116
    Is Chaos Bolt back as the hardest hitting spell in game as it was meant to be? If no (and I fear it isn't), what abilities have you found hitting harder?

  17. #3117
    Starsurge hits for a metric ton of damage, but it also takes balance druids a lot longer to pump out starsurges than it takes a warlock to cast chaosbolts.

    The druid must hardcast to generate resources (dots offer a miserly 3 asp on cast, you would need to moonfire about 14 times to be able to cast a single starsurge), whereas on my warlock i can gain shards while moving from immolate procs and conflagrate.

    Lock also has casting circle and unending resolve, and those immunities to interrupts matter a great deal whereas the only thing a balance druid has is a pitiful 20% damage reduction every minute.

    It's also funny because hybrid healing is utter trash now, especially druid. My warlock with drain life heals in one single cast more than my druid heals by casting regrowth, rejuv, and healing touch together with resto affinity.

    PvP balancing is most certainly not even close to finished, at least I hope so.
    Last edited by Lucrece; 2016-07-23 at 02:59 PM.

  18. #3118
    Quote Originally Posted by Sylar Hao View Post
    Is Chaos Bolt back as the hardest hitting spell in game as it was meant to be? If no (and I fear it isn't), what abilities have you found hitting harder?
    Full moon hits like a truck (artifact druid spell), demo lock artifact spell hits for a ton, but was nerfed for a lot, anything prot can hit like a truck in pvp.

    And so on...
    @wholol Dunno how is that possible, for instance Cobrak hits for 480k without soul harvest, initiation and ofc the orc racial in one of his videos. Your either hitting some1 with dmg reduction cd used (which is a good deal of dmg to do when some1 used dmg reduction) or didnt align everything. Calculation hits about >700k if you calculate all the data (as I said what I did on friends acc, and what I saw on Cobrak streams). When it coems to wpvp this even goes up, I mean until the end of the patch, with some legendaries mythic raiders will be able to hit for 1mil with no problems in wpvp. This also works for pvp players with ratting of 2200+ (1700 was a mentioned ratting which gives you normal raiding gear, 2000 prolly for heroic and 2200+ for the mythic equal stuff probably).


    Yes, I totally agree they need to balance chaos bolt to not be a one trick pony. I really dont see even a decent 3s team let you align the whole thing. After a month every1 will figure out to counter this. So yeah, they need to change sustained dmg chaos bolt is doing, or we will be cd stacking all over again, with a shadowburn spam in between... Dont see taht being viable at all compared to affliction, which is back to being a cancer sl/sl once was. 3 melees can train you, and u will just be spamming insta dots and drain tank them.

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  19. #3119
    That's what I was fearing...

    In PvP, without arctifact I don't see Chaos Bolt any strong and the few arctifact traits that enhance it don't enhance it that much. I've only been able to do some pvp in the PTR with my character (I'm on vacation right now, so can't play in the live game) and Chaos Bolt was utterly dissapointing, it was not worth casting it and it barely did any damage. This whole RNG focus they've put into Destro has made the spec feel very sustained-ish instead of burst-y, because the randomness is so frequent it actually isn't that random.

    I'd rather we'd go back to cast far fewer Chaos bolt that actually are scary and deal nice damage. What's the point of having a spec named "Destruction" when it can't destroy?

  20. #3120
    I don't PvP much, but I was wondering if anyone has found any merit in the Fel Fissure PvP talent. An AoE double-MS on every CB seems pretty good, but I suppose maybe the opportunity cost hurts it too much?

    Quote Originally Posted by Turturin the Warlock View Post
    I said it didn't have notable mechanics changes beyond the mid first tier kjc buff. Damage buffs are not mechanics changes.

    Dude I was responding too was claiming some big change in playstyle caused increase in popularity. Demonstrably false since mechanics didn't change when he was asserting they did.
    On the contrary, there were several mechanical buffs that were important to Destruction being what it was in late MoP over the course of the expansion.

    5.1 gave RoF and Conflagrate Ember generation, 5.2 changed Soul Leech into an absorb, and then the 5.2 hotifxes gave Incinerate and Conflag a chance to generate extra Embers.

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