Why it's time to accept the fact that Brexit may never happen

[Zarc]

The best we can hope for is a slightly worse deal than we have now, while addressing exactly none of the concerns of the brexiteers.

-55% for a non-Brexit Brexit where they technically leave but nothing changes.

That's exactly what I posted earlier, I think that is what will happen in the end, simply because it's so easy compared to actually detaching the UK which will be very complicated, while the UK are still technically fulfilling the vote of the people. That way nothing will change apart from the UK exiting the EU institutions and thereby forfeiting their democratic representation in the EU. Then in 10-15 years LibDems and Labour can point that fact out and as the old No-voters have passed away and more people of a different mindset has come of age and so they can easily re-enter again, without having to make systemic overhauls of their laws and regulations.

[Dhrizzle]

To be blunt: in referendum without limits a 52 % vote out of ~70% attending population is the same as a 99,9 % vote of all voters. And the minority is expected to stay silent, as per democracy rules the minority has no say and is of utter irrelevance.
Tyranny of the dumb ? yup, is possible, but democracy is per definition infallible and the result of majority vote is always the best decision ever, moronic or not.

Theoretically that's why we have a Parliamentary rather than direct democracy so our MPs and, in a most extreme case, monarch can prevent it being a "tyranny of majority"

[Deleted]

But UK is still leaving EU right ?

[ranzino]

But UK is still leaving EU right ?

How about roll a dice, it's also an option. Plan is to poke around for a solution and avoid invocation of article 50 until then like pestilence and ebola. Nobody is eager to trigger the exit.

[TrumpIsPresident]

The 17 million who voted to leave or the 16 million who voted to stay?
Let's stop pretending the Brexit vote was in any way shape or form a mandate for the will of the people.

Oh is there some sort of threshold that needs to be met before a vote counts?

Should we start invalidating elections because the people who lost think the winner didn't "win by enough"?

Or maybe we can't start weighting the votes of people we don't think are intelligent enough to make the right decisions, say 3/5's of all other persons?

How's that sound?

[klogaroth]

Oh is there some sort of threshold that needs to be met before a vote counts?

You act like that hasn't repeatedly been a thing in past major referendums. Not just in the UK, but also in the US. There have been referendums in both nations in the past that have required a 2/3 majority to be enacted, and there will likely be many more in the future. Traditionally really big decisions have had minimum thresholds on turnout and majority achieved. This has been a thing with many other votes outside of referendums as well. They have also been binding as opposed to advisory referendums.

With the way that this referendum was set up it was essentially a glorified opinion poll. That's why there have been all these challenges to it, people saying it still requires a vote in the House of Commons to enact, and issues with Northern Ireland and to a greater extent Scotland. There is a strong suspicion that the reason it was such a badly designed referendum that may subsequently face legal challenge is because it was never supposed to pass.

[TrumpIsPresident]

Aye, something like that, we need a safety net to protect us from the fucking idiots.

Same justification was used to limit votes from Blacks and women.

#progress

[Deleted]

But UK is still leaving EU right ?

Yeah, I think so. The key point to understand is that attitudes to the EU have divided the ruling Conservative Party for about 30 years. Over time, the Eurosceptics won over the Party, although not the Cameron government, so they have numbers (MPs, party members, Conservative voters, newspapers, heck 52% of voters in general) on their side. The Cameron government put Brexit to a referendum as a way to try to end the division in the party. It backfired on him but I think most Conservatives are relieved that "the people" have ended their civil war cleanly for them; I don't think the remainers have the numbers or will to try to over turn it.

The other UK parties are a different matter, but at the moment, they (i.e. Labour) seem so hopeless, they are likely to irrelevant for the key years to come.

However, Brexit may be slow and delayed. With German and French elections next year, I suspect all sides will delay agreeing terms in case the EU changes in the interim. For example, if the rest of the EU sours on free movement, the UK may be able to get the single market and limits on immigration that the Conservatives want but right now is unacceptable to the EU. There may then be a battle in the Conservatives over Brexit-lite vs Brexit-max, but yes, either way, the UK is leaving the EU.

[Techno-Druid]

haha awkward, it already happened! Always funny to look back at old threads after their predictions are wrong huh?

It hasn't happened, the UK and the EU are stilm discussing trade deals, so the UK hasn't technically left.

[Kalis]

It hasn't happened, the UK and the EU are stilm discussing trade deals, so the UK hasn't technically left.

Not just not technically left, we have not even handed in our two year notice yet.

[Tinch]

Aye, something like that, we need a safety net to protect us from the fucking idiots.

So if there is a second Scottish independence referendum, you'll be happy for a leave vote to require at least 60% of the votes?

[dribbles]

Those picts can never make up their mind. Less than two years ago Sturgeon and her SNP gang campaigned in the referendum to leave the the UK for independence and by default therefore the EU. Now they want to campaign to remain in the EU.

One day the idiots will get their story straight.

[primalmatter]

democracy may never happen ?

It will... once those pesky peasants learn to vote the right way.

[Kalis]

Those picts can never make up their mind. Less than two years ago Sturgeon and her SNP gang campaigned in the referendum to leave the the UK for independence and by default therefore the EU. Now they want to campaign to remain in the EU.

One day the idiots will get their story straight.

Never mind them, they are just off their tits on a diet of deep fried shortbread and historically innaccurate Mel Gibson films.

[Elegiac]

democracy may never happen ?

We can only hope.

[Thetruth1400]

Yea always awesome to see a government shit on the wishes of its citizens.

Filthy peasants ...its like they think its their government or something.

Agreed. People wanted Democracy, and Democracy chose to leave. You crap all over that, you might as well just admit you're not a real Democracy, and the votes of the citizens mean absolutely nothing.

Overall though, I think the rest of the EU has pretty much told the UK it can go F itself, because it voted to leave, now the EU is telling the UK to get on with their exit, while the UK is sitting on their thumbs because they want to hammer out the details before they "really leave."

As far as I'm concerned, I'd hope for them to be forced to do it, then Scotland leaving the UK and staying with the EU, and Northern Ireland leaving and rejoining Ireland.

At the end of the day, UK is going to sit on it's thumb and just pretend it never happened so nothing ever changes.

[Wikiy]

Those picts can never make up their mind. Less than two years ago Sturgeon and her SNP gang campaigned in the referendum to leave the the UK for independence and by default therefore the EU. Now they want to campaign to remain in the EU.

One day the idiots will get their story straight.

Had the Scottish independence referendum gone through, they would've immediately begun negotiations for EU membership. That was the plan. I know that, and I'm not even near the British isles.

[dribbles]

Had the Scottish independence referendum gone through, they would've immediately begun negotiations for EU membership. That was the plan. I know that, and I'm not even near the British isles.

Since we are talking hypothetically now, then in 2030 - 2040 they might have become a member. By then the EU won't exist, so in reality Scotland has never been a member of the EU and will never be.

[Wikiy]

Since we are talking hypothetically now, then in 2030 - 2040 they might have become a member. By then the EU won't exist, so in reality Scotland has never been a member of the EU and will never be.

The negotiation process lasts some 5-10 years for developing nations. Scotland, which already has all the regulations it has to have, would've gotten an accelerated negotiation process that would've lasted max 5 years. So no, what you said.

[Deleted]

Why hasn't it been invoked then? What's with the clowning around?

Because shit takes time DUH