Harbingers: The Story of Gul’dan

[Seifross]

Just like to point out that having a different backstory doesn't make Gul'Dan "a completely different character". He's identical to the last Gul'Dan despite his new - and honestly, mostly irrelevant - backstory.

[Deleted]

That actually makes sense paired with my theory that in the AU the legion would skip ner'zhul altogether.

Kiljaedin would have been watching guldan instead of interfering with ner'zhul, so they would have intercepted at the moment of his great weakness and desperation, which would allow him to train harder and longer in the legion arts instead of wasting time learning other forms of magic.

Next, if the AU and MU were both supposed to be identical up to a point of divergence, perhaps some of the alternate timeline was manipulated by the legion, or perhaps some events instead were not.

New theory: kiljaedin killed ner'zhuls wife, then used his emotional torment to turn him, in the AU, he didnt want to recruit ner'zhul so he had no reason to kill his wife, which is why thats different. Then perhaps the reason ner'zhul betrays KJ as the lich king is due to the nature of the torture he received in the nether, perhaps KJ forcing him to watch his wife be killed at his hands over and over till his spirit broke, but instead enforced his resolve to betray the legion.

Then i wonder if the legion killed groms wife this time around to prevent garrosh from happening

Speculation for sure, but it helps cope with the time travel fiasco

You won't find a Point of Departure. It's just one of the many timeline that are similar but not equal.

[Zulkhan]

Honestly its meh. He is just generic bad guy who has standard issue "tragic" past, and still no motivation other than being evil just for a sake of it.

Well, I think is better this way. No need to overcomplicate a character like Gul'dan beyond its acknowledged role in the story. Yeah, he's evil for evil's sake, but at least the story offers some context as from where all that bitterness and thirst for power and domination came from. I much more feared a "I somewhat tried to do good but screwed up" kind of story and I'm glad they didn't go there.

toying with Legion

Lol it's the Legion that constantly toyed with Gul'dan.

As much as he pretended to only serve himself, MU Gul'dan was a tryhard who always ended up fucked in the bottom, first when Kil'jaeden abandoned him on Draenor like an imbecile and then when he got rekted at the Tomb of Sargeras, making his entire quest for power, let alone existence, meaningless.

[Matius]

Lol it's the Legion that constantly toyed with Gul'dan.

As much as he pretended to only serve himself, MU Gul'dan was a tryhard who always ended up fucked in the bottom, first when Kil'jaeden abandoned him on Draenor like an imbecile and then when he got rekted at the Tomb of Sargeras, making his entire quest for power, let alone existence, meaningless.

It was both ways, Legion wanted Orcs under their heel, Gul'dan wanted power and got it from Legion's fel magic. But when he saw an opportunity for more, he abandoned Horde in the middle of Lordaeron invasion and went on his own mission to Tomb Of Sargeras.

[Dyptheria]

Yes. KJ definitely knew what had happened to Ner'zhul and Gul'dan in our Azeroth when he chose to give Gul'dan the powers in the alternate universe Draenor since as we know there is only one KJ.

So what happened to the other Kil'jaedens(s), as well as the other Archimonde(s)? We know that there was an AU Velen, and that the uncorrupted Eredar had settled on Draenor after being chased across the universe, so the implication is that there were other Archimondes and Kil'jaedens. Were they "absorbed" when their counterparts (in whichever alternate universe) became full Demons?

[Deleted]

So what happened to the other Kil'jaedens(s), as well as the other Archimonde(s)? We know that there was an AU Velen, and that the uncorrupted Eredar had settled on Draenor after being chased across the universe, so the implication is that there were other Archimondes and Kil'jaedens. Were they "absorbed" when their counterparts (in whichever alternate universe) became full Demons?

Maybe Archimonde and KJ never existed in the Alternate Universe. I can't remember if AU Velen or someone else from the AU mentioned them.

Well, that doesn't really matter since we have the same problem with Socrethar anyway. It can still be explained by saying that Socrethar was just pretending to be a normal draenei on AU Draenor while in reality he was a demon all along or that Socrethar just possessed Exarch Othaar at some point. Blizzard most likely didn't think that through when they wrote AU Socrethar to the story.

[steelballfc]

I'm fine with this retcon.

this pic can be a meme
I would use it

- - - Updated - - -

It's not hard to imagine that in MU Gul'dan reached Throne of the Elements and received a blessing from the elements, later killed his old clan and finally joined the Shadowmoon Clan, where he was taken as a student of Ner'zhul. In case of AU Gul'dan, he received a blessing from some demon that somehow happened to appear in Throne of the Elements.

I don't think so, MU Gul'dan was a Good shaman that Ner'zul chose him as 2nd, I don't think the elements will chose to obey him willingly while Gul'dan is using the Fel magic, also Ner'zul would have notice that his way for asking the elements to help him is weird, at least the red Eye would make everyone notice that something weird about him.

[Deleted]

Maybe Archimonde and KJ never existed in the Alternate Universe. I can't remember if AU Velen or someone else from the AU mentioned them.

AU Velen had a major role in the Shadowmoon Valley storyline. The mere existence of AU Draenor confirms AU Kil'jaeden and Archimonde.

[Kulthar]

If he's not Gul'dan then why call him Gul'dan?

cos his mummy and his daddy named him Gul'dan

[Dyptheria]

AU Velen had a major role in the Shadowmoon Valley storyline. The mere existence of AU Draenor Velen confirms AU Kil'jaeden and Archimonde.

This. The fact that the Draenei are on Draenor means that they left Argus (in a hurry, and a long time ago), my issue is whether AU Archimonde and Kil'jaeden still exist, since there is only one Legion.

[Lady Atia]

This. The fact that the Draenei are on Draenor means that they left Argus (in a hurry, and a long time ago), my issue is whether AU Archimonde and Kil'jaeden still exist, since there is only one Legion.

Once they become daemons, they become one with all the other daemon soul versions of themselves, or not?

Also, time is a flat circle. I actually doubt there is a non daemon version of them somewhere tbh

[Deleted]

This. The fact that the Draenei are on Draenor means that they left Argus (in a hurry, and a long time ago), my issue is whether AU Archimonde and Kil'jaeden still exist, since there is only one Legion.

There are other possible explanations for their escape.

[Dyptheria]

Once they become daemons, they become one with all the other daemon soul versions of themselves, or not?

Also, time is a flat circle. I actually doubt there is a non daemon version of them somewhere tbh

This is exactly what I'm thinking. It would explain why there is an AU Velen (a leader of the Eredar), yet there are (or appear to be) no AU versions of Archimonde or Kil'Jaeden. The ones that appear are the only Archimonde, the only Kil'jaeden, the only Mannoroth.

[Joodoc]

If AU Gul'dan and MU Gul'dan are completely different characters that don't even share the same origin why are they both called Gul'dan?

Because when you have your first event in an alternate timeline is different, it slowly peels away from the main timeline, but it isn't immediately different. You still have the same people(at least for a while) but the wy they play out changes drastically.

E.G. in an alternate Azeroth, you could get an Azeroth where Anduin isn't such a scholar, because his father doesn't disappear. Now while this is an easy change, you could have Anduin best friend in one universe, as the main villain in the new one, because he never got that connection. Still the same person, just turned out very differently.

Shoot even something as basic as a plant doesn't get trampled down, that is the split between the universes, but THAT split means Sylvanas doesn't go down and get resurrected by the LK, because she could hide behind the bush and ambush them, or get wounded and get knocked out inside the bush, and thus overlooked. Could you imagine how different that would be, just from a plant not being trampled? Some concept. Some changes will be small, some huge, it is hard to predict.

[Ethas]

That's not how a multiverse work...

You don't know how multiverse "works" since Blizzard doesn't know either.

[Mehrunes]

This. The fact that the Draenei are on Draenor means that they left Argus (in a hurry, and a long time ago), my issue is whether AU Archimonde and Kil'jaeden still exist, since there is only one Legion.

Don't think about this too hard because Blizzard clearly hasn't either.

[Seifross]

Don't think about this too hard because Blizzard clearly hasn't either.

It's easy enough to assume that as soon as they become demons they basically fuse with their original (demon) selves.

Or, since there's only one Legion, they never bother to go back and re-recruit them. For some reason.

Yeah, alright, it probably is best not to think too much about it. Just ignore AU/MU from hereon - the only thing to take from WoD is that Gul'Dan's back.

[Daralii]

It's easy enough to assume that as soon as they become demons they basically fuse with their original (demon) selves.

Or, since there's only one Legion, they never bother to go back and re-recruit them. For some reason.

Yeah, alright, it probably is best not to think too much about it. Just ignore AU/MU from hereon - the only thing to take from WoD is that Gul'Dan's back.

I don't think so. He yelled at us about how we killed him in Shattrath, and just based on that and his personality I think he'd yell at us about killing him in Netherstorm if it happened to him.

Maybe their souls fuse together into some amalgamation after they're killed in the AU Great Dark and enter the Nether? Kind of like what happened with the Pantheon and the keepers.

[Deleted]

You don't know how multiverse "works" since Blizzard doesn't know either.

That's the beauty of it, no one really does. Yet, you were the one that talked about AU being MU, which factually wrong.

[Seifross]

I don't think so. He yelled at us about how we killed him in Shattrath, and just based on that and his personality I think he'd yell at us about killing him in Netherstorm if it happened to him.

Maybe their souls fuse together into some amalgamation after they're killed in the AU Great Dark and enter the Nether? Kind of like what happened with the Pantheon and the keepers.

I honestly don't think Blizz has an answer, so headcanon away. If we ever revisit AU worlds it might be explained, but I doubt it very much.