Disc Priest and Mythic+

[nox156]

Hello,

in light of prepatch hitting live servers and having a look at the disc priest, I have a few questions for endgame at 110.

Due to limited playtime, my PvE endgame will most likely be limited to Mythic+instead of raiding in Legion but I am worried about Disc Priest viability in this kind of environment. I am still leveling the disc priest (in cata content at the moment) and getting accustomed to the changes. I normally am doing descent DPS and keeping everyone alive but I cant help but feel hopeless when large chunks of AoE damage is being dealt or if the tank is getting hammered hard. Shadow mending doesn't heal for enough , Radiance is even worse and if I dont already have attonement on everyone, by the time I get back to DPSing I might have already lost someone.

I know the prepatch numbers are low for disc but I cant help but feel our toolkits to deal with "Oh Crap" moments is limited and it makes me ponder on the viability of the spec in a Mythic+ environment. Raiding seems overall fine since others healers can feel the gap but when you are the only healer, how can you deal with these situations. I know the consensus seems to be you have to be proactive rather than reactive but it's not always easy.

Has anyone tried Mythic+ as disc on the beta and if so, how viable is it at max level? Is the disc spec much better at 110 than it is now? I personally love the play style of disc and like the fact it is "hard" to manage but if I have no chance of getting groups for content then perhaps I should look elsewhere for a main character.

thanks

[Isheria]

Any spec can do up to +10 on mythic dungeons with relative ease if the group is decent enough, that includes disc priests. You can get the maximum ilvl loot by completing +10 even if not within the timer, after that point loot stops improving. Going beyond that threshold is only for e-peen and unlocking an extra skin for your artifact weapon. The class/spec differences start to matter a lot more past that point and disc isn't the best candidate at such high levels of mythic+ dungeons even though it's possible to play one with success.

In short yes it's possible to do high levels of mythic+ dungeons as a disc priest but it's also requires more effort than it would do with another healing spec.

[Totaltotemic]

What Isheria said, but also if you plan on pugging Mythic+ up to 10.. you might not want to do that as Disc. Even if you're good at it, community perception will make it very difficult for your to find groups if you're not going with friends.

[Kasoy]

If you want to push really high Mythic+, I feel you should go Holy (unless Disc gets a buff). As strong as Shadow Mend is, I feel Renew+Heal/Flash Heal+Echoes of Light will get you better Mileage.

That and I love seeing Serenity crit for over 1.5M in heals. I've seen Echoes of Light ticking for 250k (so 750k over the duration) and this is with a weaker Holy Artifact at 13 ranks vs my Disc's 19 ranks and of course better relics.

I do love to DPS too though so I myself am undecided how I will go come launch. I was set on Disc but seeing it now on Beta... well... yeah...

[nox156]

Thing is I have a hard time believing blizz wont try to at least tweak numbers a bit. Plus I like the fact disc definately helps speed up fights. Im a dps at heart so disc is right up my alley...i really would like to make it work.

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Id also like a spec that can hold it's own in PvP and disc doesnt seem to ve in a very good shape at the moment...I just wish they'd do a tweaking pass and treat disc as a full fledged healer instead of a support

[Kasoy]

Thing is I have a hard time believing blizz wont try to at least tweak numbers a bit. Plus I like the fact disc definately helps speed up fights. Im a dps at heart so disc is right up my alley...i really would like to make it work.

I'd like to believe they will tweak the numbers a bit since they have done this in the past such as the significant buffs Disc received early in Cata's release. I think Disc is in a decent enough shape for raid healing but it feels significantly lacking in 5mans. Our Artifact Power for instance scales poorly in 5-mans (unless we're "Overloaded with Light" but that's too random). And similar to your stance, I'm more interested in Mythic+ Dungeons than in Mythic raids.

[Kaharon]

Thing is I have a hard time believing blizz wont try to at least tweak numbers a bit. Plus I like the fact disc definately helps speed up fights. Im a dps at heart so disc is right up my alley...i really would like to make it work.

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Id also like a spec that can hold it's own in PvP and disc doesnt seem to ve in a very good shape at the moment...I just wish they'd do a tweaking pass and treat disc as a full fledged healer instead of a support

Why should the heal as much or be treated as a "full fletched healer" when they also deal ~60% of a damage dealers DPS?

Blizzard is in a very difficult situation with the disc, they will have to reduce dps and increase healing, which I think is probably the best solution because if they simply buff healing without reducing dps, why should you bring a full healer in the first place?

[Totaltotemic]

I don't know why people are so focused on "pushing really high" for Mythic+. It's like the equivalent of pushing for server or world leaderboards in Challenge Modes. Almost nobody actually does that, and the people that do only play the absolute best classes and specs for it. You wouldn't even play Holy for something like that... you'd probably be a Resto Druid until something changes. At that point it has almost nothing to do with your raw healing output and everything to do with having a good, reliable tank cooldown as well as CC and a battle rez.

You're going to have to have a very dedicated group to do anything higher than level 10; it's basically a side fringe activity that has no effect on balance.

[Saiyoran]

Disc is fine in Mythic+. 10+ Tyrannical is extremely difficult to heal but that is not limited to Disc. You really need a solid group to do level 10 early on, its a lot more about your cooldowns and your tank/healer synergy than raw output as Total said, but your dps is pretty good in 5 mans and that helps alleviate some of the troubles with long, high tank damage boss fights. As people have said, pushing above 10 is minimally important if you're just trying to gear up (though they are adding leaderboards again from the looks of the battle.net website! ).

[Kasoy]

@Totaltotemic That's actually a goal for some of us. The same argument can be done for doing CM Gold which rewards only cosmetic stuff. I do CM Golds early in the release of an expac. I do not get carried or pay for a carry (or wait for the next tier when OP trinkets/gear is added to the game). While I am not after server first ranking, I'm looking to unlocking it as soon as possible. Holy will give better mileage in that regard.

[Totaltotemic]

@Totaltotemic That's actually a goal for some of us. The same argument can be done for doing CM Gold which rewards only cosmetic stuff. I do CM Golds early in the release of an expac. I do not get carried or pay for a carry (or wait for the next tier when OP trinkets/gear is added to the game). While I am not after server first ranking, I'm looking to unlocking it as soon as possible. Holy will give better mileage in that regard.

Yes... and just like in every expansion so far, Disc can do that just fine. You might find it a bit easier as Holy, but that doesn't mean Disc can't do it. As long as everyone can do it, it doesn't matter which is better unless you want to push as high as you can possibly go, which is well beyond any kind of in-game reward. There is no "better mileage" on completing a static level of content, only whether you can do it or not.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

In short yes it's possible to do high levels of mythic+ dungeons as a disc priest but it's also requires more effort than it would do with another healing spec.

That's the answer to the thread really.
It of course can be done, but where as Holy can do it in an undergeared state, Disp may require more effort or gear.

But of course, if you bring a Blood DK then who needs healers!

[Kasoy]

Yes... and just like in every expansion so far, Disc can do that just fine. You might find it a bit easier as Holy, but that doesn't mean Disc can't do it. As long as everyone can do it, it doesn't matter which is better unless you want to push as high as you can possibly go, which is well beyond any kind of in-game reward. There is no "better mileage" on completing a static level of content, only whether you can do it or not.

Because Disc had the stronger tools to do CMs efficiently in previous expansions? If Holy was stronger for CMs at the time when I completed the gold challenges, I would have used Holy then. The only problem with this expansion and why there is an issue with picking the spec is that artifact points prevent the switching of specs without losing power. It's not a question of whether or not Disc can do it.

[Saiyoran]

Would it be possible/viable to bring two disc to mythic+? If they do 60% damage 60% healing, you end up ahead by 20% on each.

That's not quite the % ratio I've found. I really do want to try this, but basically both discs need to have Caged Horror/Corrupted Starlight (or some other combination of OP damage proc trinkets) or you're going to fall VERY far behind on AoE damage in the dungeon. The single target damage would probably be pretty close to the same or maybe slightly better than a regular dps and healer, and the healing would be quite a bit, but the trash damage is going to really suffer. The most I can manage sustained (and by sustained I mean "slightly longer than opening burst," since trash packs in dungeons are under a minute regardless of what you do) is around 300k on a normal trash pack, with middle of the pack trinket procs. Good RNG can bring this up to 500-600k (Dark Blast procs are absolutely nuts if you get a series of them in a row, but thats really rare), and bad RNG can drop you below 200k (tank drags shit out of Nightfall, no Dark Blast procs).

It'd be an interesting experiment if nothing else.

[fallenangel-succ]

Any spec can do up to +10 on mythic dungeons with relative ease if the group is decent enough, that includes disc priests. You can get the maximum ilvl loot by completing +10 even if not within the timer, after that point loot stops improving. Going beyond that threshold is only for e-peen and unlocking an extra skin for your artifact weapon.

Do you recall where this was stated? Seems to be a pretty low cap. I do understand not wanting to make mythic raid gear accessible, of course.

[zaraeirah]

Do you recall where this was stated? Seems to be a pretty low cap. I do understand not wanting to make mythic raid gear accessible, of course.

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/4...-mythic-tiers/

[Totaltotemic]

Do you recall where this was stated? Seems to be a pretty low cap. I do understand not wanting to make mythic raid gear accessible, of course.

The system is virtually endless (ok, technically there's a cap, but if you somehow reach it we're probably banning you...). Achievements currently go up to +15. Loot currently stops improving past +10, and everything past that is for bragging rights or cosmetic unlocks.

Source

[Deleted]

Would it be possible/viable to bring two disc to mythic+? If they do 60% damage 60% healing, you end up ahead by 20% on each.

It really isn't since you need a shitton of DPS during trashpulls. And we just cant AE properly compared to a DPS.


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On topic: The problem I see with Disc in M+ is that you actually lose that "but I can dps" value on higher or even "the highest" level, because you don't have time to DPS. You can't heal what's required through atonement so you end up casting a lot of SM to keep your group alive, occasionally throwing in a Penance, Bender, Lightswarath, S:WP. And I say occasionally, because you wont even be able to cast Penance on cooldown. That massively reduces your value being a disc. And in the end, you could as well just play another class.

That doesn't mean Disc isn't viable in Mythic+, but if you really want to push M+ like some people compete in Mythic raiding (for the fun of it @Totaltotemic, that's why most of us play this game :P ), you will be forced to roll very specific classes. For the healing part, that's most likely (at least currently) Druid. Even if the difference was miniscule, the marginal gain of a specific class is enough to roll it.

[Puupi]

I don't really understand this "disc priest does decent dps" in 7.0. Setuping Atonement takes so much time your DPS goes down the drain. If you are dpsing without atonements up, you are essentially useless - that's what any other healer can do, too. And if you do that and an oh-shit situation comes up, you are fucked if you hadn't setuped those Atonements.

So realistically disc does less dps than other healers as they can freely dps when there is a low damage time or just let HoT's tick around. They can easily swap from DPS to maximal healing in a nanosecond - disc can't.

If a tank is taking lots of damage, which they obviously are in mythic+, then you can only spamheal that tank and have effectively zero spread healing. You also can't dps as Atonement healing won't keep the tank up. In those situations you have three effective spells (pws, shadow mend, penance) in your toolkit - everything else is completely moot.

Blizzard really needs to fix Power Word: Radiance. It's 1. too slow 2. too expensive 3. heals way too little. Biggest problem is 1. , if it were faster you could apply Atonements quicker and do that DPS, which is supposed to be the niche and bread+butter of the spec.

[Lynxwire]

Blizzard really needs to fix Power Word: Radiance. It's 1. too slow 2. too expensive 3. heals way too little. Biggest problem is 1. , if it were faster you could apply Atonements quicker and do that DPS, which is supposed to be the niche and bread+butter of the spec.

^this, my thoughts exactly.