Bye masterloot, farewell alot of pugs?

[Deleted]

...So if you don't need the item, you'd rather disenchant it instead of giving it to someone who needs it?

Rood.

not Always, if its a bad player that doesnt doent improve over raid or doesnt listen to tactics etc i wont give them. rude players i aslo wont give them stuff. nice friendly players that actully listen to tactics etc il give it them if i dont need it.

[iinverse]

Anyone crying about this change is either a ninja or special snowflake who thinks he's better than others. Either way that player is an asshole. Well... with exception of communities built from multiple guilds, but those are extremely rare these days.

I'm a member of hardcore raiding guild. We have several mythic raid statics with experienced players.
Of course all of us have multiple alts which we wants to raid, also we have some guild friends, so we often did heroic runs to gear toons up, mixing them with experienced well geared voice coordinated core.
As for me - I ran at about 300-350 HFC hc runs with my raiding chars/alts, so I have some statistics.
Common scheme for us: bring our tanks + heals + some well geared dps to push bosses + some alts/friends for gearing and the rest are pugs to fill up raid till 30 ppl for maximum amount of loot from bosses.
Of course, we mention till start about gear reserving, but instead we offer a very fast full run for pugs.

And you know? Only a few of hundreds of pugs whine about reserving, a vast majority of pugs very liked our runs and asked about future runs ("wow that was superb, can I join you next lockout?" - is a common phrase from pugs that I hear).

Of course with this ML/GL changes we will forced to expand roster to run fully filled raids ot use most convenient loot distribution system - master looter.
It caused a little inconvenience for us, but we will of course get over it

And what about LFG? Simple - it means that our several hundred heroic raids will disappear from LFG and several hundreds of pugs will lose the ability to fast run and forced to use less organised groups having unwilling wipes, more spending time for raid etc, etc.

And that's not only about us - many organized fast run groups with master loot distribution will leave LFG - its actually pretty big arrange of experienced players who will not use LFG, causing to reduction of overall pugs quality - here is the main problem.
Its not that "ninja looters" whose are pretty low in numbers and can easily be avoided since remaking of heroic lockouts.

[Greylan]

Same people are going to be here complaining about the lack of successful pugs soon after raiding begins -- without people to carry them, they'll be getting no loot.

[Florena]

I can understand preferring ML but have a hard time understanding why you would refuse to do pugs at all without it.

[iinverse]

I can understand preferring ML but have a hard time understanding why you would refuse to do pugs at all without it.

And why do we need to do pugs if it will not allow us to distribute loot our way? )
Easier to expand roster and guild friends list than run pugs in that case.

[-aiko-]

Really? You for real think that? Ok so by your logic, that group of mythic raiders that just need one trinket for their new player, they will just keep running those type of runs on personal loot? Get serious. How can you even think that?

So you think a serious Mythic raid group isn't going to do what they can to help get that trinket for their new player? They'll just give it all up because they can't 'reserve' that trinket? Get real. This change is not going to kill as many PuGs as you think it is. You're overreacting.

[kary]

So you think a serious Mythic raid group isn't going to do what they can to help get that trinket for their new player? They'll just give it all up because they can't 'reserve' that trinket? Get real. This change is not going to kill as many PuGs as you think it is. You're overreacting.

Eh, it's going to have more an impact than you think regardless.
Players that build groups for items won't build them anymore; they'll just run with their guilds.
Less pugs will be formed as a result. Or rather, it'd be limited to 1-4 slots depending on raid size.

[iinverse]

Eh, it's going to have more an impact than you think regardless.
Players that build groups for items won't build them anymore; they'll just run with their guilds.
Less pugs will be formed as a result. Or rather, it'd be limited to 1-4 slots depending on raid size.

Not only that.
Groups like ours draw out some low skilled players from "normal" pugs (making a little easier for them to catch more skilled player), because we do not care about their skills - we already have enough to kill all in the instance.
Also groups like ours can show well performed encounters and fast ways to breach the raid that pugs can learn and use in other pug raids, slowly increasing performance quality of pugs overall.
Its a complex combination of aspects that can change raid experience for many players even if they do not contact with such groups directly.
And we all know the ways blizz do the things - first time broke it and then try to repair it rely to broken experience of players.

Well, anyway in that case pugs will be first who suffer even if they do not know it yet )

[Magnosh]

To be honest it always bothers me not seeing the boss droping an item. Besides the issues stated by the OP, I think Blizzard wants to reduce the possibility for player to plan their gear progression or to decide how to allocate gear in guilds (those split guild runs).

What worries me is that I see this as follows:
1. Gear progression becomes random
2. Takes more time to farm BiS/gear in general
3. Players replay same content for longer to get those items hence, staying subbed longer despite no new content. = money grab

[callipygoustp]

Last summer when I was running Sunday afternoon PUGs I found filling a HFC raid, with solid people, occurred MUCH more quickly with PL than with ML. Anecdotal certainly.

[WintersLegion]

This could have been changed pretty easily, don't allow the loot option to be changed once inside the raid/a boss has been killed.

And if that was the change the Master Looter just wouldn't hand out the pieces he wanted to keep for himself or his friends.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

Make your own damn group if you have such a problem.

Apparently the problem was widespread enough that Blizzard felt this was an appropriate solution to it.

[munkeyinorbit]

I certainly didn't ninja loot nor do I do content where I might have contact with random terribads aside from the occasional usually female friend begging for rescuing their shitty pug so thanks for the worry but not necessary. I know you can't have people getting something for actually doing more - that would be preposterous for all those jelly plebs.

Make certain the loot rules are stated openly beforehand. I know quite hard again.

Why do you have a problem with it then? Or are you just lying and you're having a cry because you cant ninja loot anymore.

[Musta]

fixed now

/10char

I like you. /10chars

[Laxx]

fixed now

/10char

Preach brother

And how is this helping you out with ninjas? If you think ninjas is a big problem, don't join a masterloot group. Join a personal loot group.

People like you are the cancer killing this game, and I'm glad your irrelevant opinion was disregarded, paid no mind, and had no influence on game design.

We win, you lose

Like it or leave

Or just leave.

Infracted {MoanaLisa}

[Ryxxi]

Yes, good riddance. I loke personal loot. Faster, less drama and don't have to be afraid of pugs ninja looting, which happened a lot to me.

[glorygores]

My favorite part about hosting ML pugs was when i'd invite a couple people and get flamed because I won't change it to PL : ^ )

[gutnbrg]

its amazing how anyone but top guilds can complain about this...The only thing it hurts is guilds abilities to make millions of gold by selling carries

[Burnt-Toast]

Personally I won't be ever doing any PuGs with the change. From an enchanting perspective this is horrid, I don't want two-three randoms all messaging me begging for my loot drops when I want to DE things, then probably get cussed out because I'm the selfish one for wanting to do my profession.

Nothing really changes anyway, ML, "Oh I wanted the bit of gear X, but didn't get it." /sulk. PL, "Someone else has a bit of gear I want, but won't give it to me." /sulk

Personally this change isn't going to do much for me, but I don't see it being long lived from my above comparison, there is still going to be QQ'ing about loot and people trying to force other players to give up their loot, it's just player to player harassment.

[Deleted]

Another complete non issue that for some reason has been discussed for a whole 19 pages...

This will hurt no one except those who sell carries and ninja looters for who it is basically impossible to grief people now (boo fucking hoo). OP thinks this will HURT PuGs ? LOL. The complete opposite is true - many people who have been burned by ninjas before and have sworn off pugging will now return, knowing that they have a fair shot at the loot they want and not having to worry that some mouth-breathing troll will steal everything.