Raid Loot Options

[Deleted]

So me and some friends are looking at raiding and are currently debating Personal loot vs Master Loot in Legion.

I am personally in the Personal loot camp for the start of legion, allowing multiple people to gather multiple pieces of loot, switching to master looter later on to allow us to direct tier set pieces and other gear to people who really need it.

Some of my friends are fans of using master looter, to allow tanks and healers priority on gear to help tanks and healers with the fights and make the runs smoother


Which loot system do you think should be used for raiding in Legion, and why?

[Deleted]

I would always go with masterloot in an organized group that does not have that much turnover. While i don't stand behind the "gear tanks/heals first" approach, having masterloot simply ensure that you get the same amount of gear for every boss kill.

While PL does have the possiblity to net you more gear, i feel like having good luck with PL is never really that impactful or perceived that intensely. Having bad luck, on the other hand, will be recognized quickly by everyone and not so quickly forgotten.The negative impact of bad luck with PL therefore outweighs the positive impact of good luck for me, at least on a perception level.

[Deleted]

tbh, it has been a very long time since it was important to gear tanks/healers first.

Having said that, I think going PL the first 2-3 weeks is completely fine if you are still gearing people and then switching to ML to make sure loot is optimally distributed

[ryklin]

something to note is you can trade personal loot now as you could with other loot, so I think it just depends on internal drop rates, and kind of encourages pugging with a friend of a similar gear type, and you can at least give items with shitty secondary stats to people who can use them better

but I think the final answer on that would generally be what gives more consistent chances at trinkets and a larger amount of tier and weapons, but I mean gambling on PL to give a lot of tier pieces could be an ok strategy as I have not looked into any of the actual numbers for this between the 2 systems

unless you meant just actually having people equip and keep w/e PL gives them which usually ends up w/ people getting shitty secondary stats, but I mean that's not a too hindering when half your gear is made up of tier and trinkets and everyone wants the same ones of those anyway

[Deleted]

I would always go with masterloot in an organized group that does not have that much turnover. While i don't stand behind the "gear tanks/heals first" approach, having masterloot simply ensure that you get the same amount of gear for every boss kill.

While PL does have the possiblity to net you more gear, i feel like having good luck with PL is never really that impactful or perceived that intensely. Having bad luck, on the other hand, will be recognized quickly by everyone and not so quickly forgotten.The negative impact of bad luck with PL therefore outweighs the positive impact of good luck for me, at least on a perception level.

Even with bad luck protection being active, and with the added bonus of being able to trade loot?

Not to mention its a 10 man team, with only 2 pieces of gear per fight.

[Spiral Mage]

If you're the GM or a person in a position to make the final call ..

I'd honestly ask the group you're going to be running with, let them state their preference and reasons for their opinion and make a call based on the majority, or honestly, the side you agree with in the end. Personal Loot means zero conflicts, no one can cause another person to feel like they didn't get something that they wanted. No "I lost the roll on the item, sigh", feeling.

My guild has been dead for about two expansions honestly but I would have said: Master looter when running with my guild group, because honestly, it was harder to GIVE someone a piece of loot .. everyone was like "No, you can have it", "Nah, you can, I insist." Leaving me going: "MAKE UP YOUR MIND SO I CAN ML THIS AND WE CAN MOVE ON!" Heh.

But we were short people some times and would PUG someone. In the event of having PUGs in the group, I'd run on Personal Loot. That way, they can't negatively impact my guild group and they also know that running with us, means they will have an unbiast chance at getting gear, and not be in conflict with anyone where upon I might go: "Sorry, we need the guildie to get X item", or something. Not that we ever did that, PUGs were subject to the same rules as guild members for loot except in some RARE cases, like completing an important set bonus or very powerful trinkets, etc. They were told this at the start of the run and given a chance to agree or disagree and leave.

You have to decide what you believe is the fairest way to go for your group and what will have the most positive impact.

[Deleted]

So me and some friends are looking at raiding and are currently debating Personal loot vs Master Loot in Legion.

I am personally in the Personal loot camp for the start of legion, allowing multiple people to gather multiple pieces of loot, switching to master looter later on to allow us to direct tier set pieces and other gear to people who really need it.

Some of my friends are fans of using master looter, to allow tanks and healers priority on gear to help tanks and healers with the fights and make the runs smoother

I'm in the camp where if you are using ML to get up tanks and healers you are doing it awfully wrong. Gearing healers is only effective if it allows you extra dps by cutting healers and gearing tanks is never effective(unless they have some silly Dragon Soul type set bonuses).

[Deleted]

tbh, it has been a very long time since it was important to gear tanks/healers first.

This made me die a little inside lol

[Octa]

This made me die a little inside lol

Why, cause it's true?

[Fincayra]

Why, cause it's true?

If you didn't do Mythic Butcher when it was current content, then shut about not gearing the tanks first. Having paper thin tanks because you thought gearing up your uber leet dps first meant you spent a few more weeks gearing your tanks up. Silly things that everyone says were easy like final phase Beastmaster and Gruul in general proves you wrong. Those bosses hit the tanks VERY hard.

[Deja Thoris]

If you didn't do Mythic Butcher when it was current content, then shut about not gearing the tanks first. Having paper thin tanks because you thought gearing up your uber leet dps first meant you spent a few more weeks gearing your tanks up. Silly things that everyone says were easy like final phase Beastmaster and Gruul in general proves you wrong. Those bosses hit the tanks VERY hard.

Not as hard as the enrage timer which was the main hurdle that prevented people killing the boss.

[Deleted]

If you didn't do Mythic Butcher when it was current content, then shut about not gearing the tanks first. Having paper thin tanks because you thought gearing up your uber leet dps first meant you spent a few more weeks gearing your tanks up. Silly things that everyone says were easy like final phase Beastmaster and Gruul in general proves you wrong. Those bosses hit the tanks VERY hard.

except that, you know, the main hurdle on mythic butcher was the dps requirement on the enrage, not the tanks dying.

Sure, you needed some level of gear to keep your tanks alive in the first place, however if you funelled all your gear into your tanks there is no way you would meet the dps requirement, so doing so would have been pointless

[Deleted]

If you didn't do Mythic Butcher when it was current content, then shut about not gearing the tanks first. Having paper thin tanks because you thought gearing up your uber leet dps first meant you spent a few more weeks gearing your tanks up. Silly things that everyone says were easy like final phase Beastmaster and Gruul in general proves you wrong. Those bosses hit the tanks VERY hard.

Not sure if serious.

[Jellospally]

If you didn't do Mythic Butcher when it was current content, then shut about not gearing the tanks first. Having paper thin tanks because you thought gearing up your uber leet dps first meant you spent a few more weeks gearing your tanks up. Silly things that everyone says were easy like final phase Beastmaster and Gruul in general proves you wrong. Those bosses hit the tanks VERY hard.

Guess your tanks didn't know how to plan externals and deal with the damage of those bosses.

Too many tanks just call externals for no reason because they feel like they are dying. Have to just know the damage patterns and shit becomes really easy.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Gearing tanks first is technically a min-max truth. But like most min-max it isn't a deal breaker at all. As long as the players you have can bring superior play that can over come sub-superior (still acceptable though) planning. Having all the right gear, for example, with one wrong gem doesn't mean your DPS automatically sucks. Yes, it could be VERY slightly better with the correct gem but a single gem doesn't end it. The same thing can be said about gearing tanks first. While, yes, it often pays off to have them better geared it isn't a meta requirement. All it means is it suddenly becomes easier to maybe bring one less healer and one more DPS. Blizzard says this might not be the case this expansion but I have my doubts. Which is why standing strong for or against it doesn't really warrant much beyond "look at me, internet hero, do it my way because I benefit some how.. and you dumb" games.

Very tiny subject without much meaning. Either way your guild will be just fine. All that really matters is the people within it are happy with the situation because if one or two pieces of loot are what make the difference between you making it or not than you are either bleeding edge world first going into mythic well under geared or you are just plane fucking bad and it doesn't matter anyway. Just do what keeps your people around and that which you have fun with and your skill will allow you to progress directly to where you should go regardless.

[Tiberria]

I think in general that personal loot is probably the best option for most guilds at least during the first two weeks, because almost everything that drops is an upgrade for everyone, and because you actually get more items per person on personal loot than you do on master loot. They have never given exact personal loot drop rates, but if you get 4 items in a 20 man raid on master loot, I believe that you get closer to 5 items on average with personal loot on. They have said they deliberately tune it to give more total loot to offset the distribution advantages of master loot.

If you're in a situation where all of the drops are useful - and now that you can trade the ones that aren't upgrades - almost everything will be - you would probably be better off getting more total items during the initial gearing push. It's obviously not going to work if you're doing split runs with half or more alts, or if you're using friend and family non raiders to pad your normal/heroic runs to 30 or something, but for most people - it's going to be a gain. Not being able to use personal loot for split runs is potentially once of the things reducing the efficiency level of split runs. Although, they could kill them altogether if they just mandated personal loot on everything below Mythic. I think they are going that direction eventually.

[Octa]

If you didn't do Mythic Butcher when it was current content, then shut about not gearing the tanks first. Having paper thin tanks because you thought gearing up your uber leet dps first meant you spent a few more weeks gearing your tanks up. Silly things that everyone says were easy like final phase Beastmaster and Gruul in general proves you wrong. Those bosses hit the tanks VERY hard.

On February 25th, 2015 which was three weeks AFTER the release of BRF you were 4/7 in Mythic Highmaul (where Butcher was generally the 5th or 6th boss you went for) yet you're going to try and call other people out on not seeing Butcher when it was current? LOL
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post32471264
If you actually did it when it was current you'd know the main hurdle in that fight was the DPS check. Final phase Beastlord (literally one of the easiest Mythic bosses ever made) and Gruul in general? Gruul was another one of the tighter DPS checks and that was what made it hard lol. I mean I'm all for people having different opinions but when the 3 examples you give are literally 3 of the worst ones possible then I can't even begin to take you seriously.

Care to try again?

[Soisoisoi]

This made me die a little inside lol

Gearing Tanks/Healers first hasn't been a thing since the Dragon Soul 4 sets for Tanks (and even then... that was a gimmick), at least. DPS should be priority. The shorter the fight, the less damage that goes out, the less healing is needed, and the less chance someone can fuck up. With Tanks having active mitigation, if you're dying you are either playing wrong, or your healers went AFK.

The fact you said Mythic Butcher though for gearing tanks? Lol. That was literally a DPS race fight. You just shot yourself in the foot with that one.


OT:
Unless you're in a really well organised guild with people who actually want progress and don't give a shit about gear, Personal Loot will be better. Loot Drama just isn't worth the time any more. After trying ML in WoD in a guild led by myself and a few friends... I just can't be bothered with it any more. You just can't explain to some people that X should get loot over them when they think they "deserve" it.

I mean, the guild I was in before gave the Siegemaster Agility trinket to a fucking Bear instead of our Windwalker. The reason? The tank was dying. You know why? Because our Disc Priest and "healing officer" was utter dogshit; she out-right REFUSED to spec into stuff like Clarity of Will and spent her time spamming Smite when the tanks were dying instead of healing properly. Some people just don't understand, and that type of guild is what Personal Loot will be better for.

[Nize]

If you're gonna /roll, then just go with personal. It accomodates your group comp. Example... a group is made up of rogues, druids, monks, and demon hunters. You kill a boss. ML will give you wastes with mail, plate, cloth. PL will give you same amount of gear but all leather. That's an extreme case, but it accomodates whatever comp you end up going with and truly makes the game "Bring the player, not the class"

[Adramelch]

Invoking M Butcher and Gruul as an argument for gearing tanks over DPS must be one of the best things I've read in MMO-C for quite a while.