Bye masterloot, farewell alot of pugs?

[Seezer]

The problem was that 90%+ of groups were ML, which is bullshit. The ninja'ing that was going on was out of hand, and it has now been addressed. So yes, having ML as an option in Pugs was indeed "broken".

No it wasn't "out of hand". I've been playing for 7 years and pug consistently and I could count on one hand how many times someone ML was used to give someone something they didn't win. But people being people exaggerate. And sometimes they flat out lie.

And if you think that the problem isn't going to be worse now, have fun with trolls that are needing on downgrades and things they already have. Because that's going to be what gets out of hand.

[Jeniwyn]

A lot of loot can be extracted via this new loot system so I doubt the groups will go away. They will just look differently.

You will likely have a few ppl try to start "join my guild, we go ML" groups.

Others will start heavily stacked groups in order to trade and get a ton of gear.

Possibly with /roll on duplicates/downgrades. (And, /kick on players trading outside of this, something that will harm them since they are unlikely to get invited back to the "Monk" run next week. (There will likely not be so many of these runs that you can easily just get into more and more new similar runs)

The runs might dry out sooner though, and would likely become more elitist rather than less. But we will see. Perhaps the players who prefer PL and have so far just been tagging along will rise to the challenge and start to lead more groups. Then it can instead be a vast improvement for the players who truly love personal loot.

[Seezer]

And it doesn't matter anyway. You get loot for scratching your balls in this game. You're showered with it.

[Maudib]

Personal loot is fine... no more people without enough friend in the guild to run with, trying to reserve items selfishly. MORE groups will be made that benefit all, less that are setup to screw over others for self benefit. If you want a certain item... invite peeps that already have it and they can trade it to ya.

[Magnosh]

What I don't understand is people saying this is a ''good ridance'', I always saw this as there is a choice, you can choose:
A. Not joining groups with Master Loot because you don't trust.
B. Not joining groups with Reserved items because you needed them.
C. Making your own group with your loot methods.

If you don't fully understand the entire raid (or are unable to lead or make a group or even to explain tactics) and rather tag along people who do it is understandable for you to prefer not to go with Option C. But it's no ones fault but your own if you can't pick Option C.

I have been in raids with Items reserved and I have done it myself too, I don't see a problem about the RL, who most of the times is boosting the Raid (or brings a friend to do it) with his item level but needs one or two items to go through the trouble of making it and then a random tagging along last minute taking the only think that he needed after sometimes more than 1h of work.

The only think I think is unacceptable is not stating the rules when the group is listed, people must know what they are going for before joining so they make their choice. I've been in pugs a LOT over the years and things i barely see that are not ok (these things happened only once or twice):
- RL rolling an item, guy who doesn't need it wins it and then tries to sell it to the other rollers (back in WotLK)
- RL making the group, and only after everyone is inside he tells that item X is reserved
- Ninja looting items
- Not giving an item based on performance

But oh well looking at the replies on this topic I think we are going to see MUCH more pugs since all these people thinking this a great idea will be making tons groups no LFG tool and this wont be any problem. Hope these wont be the same QQing about RNG being so bad and about players not trading items they won because they want to make gold (vendor/enchants mats) because after all no one is entitle to get the loot someone else got even if they don't need it.

[Dilbon]

And if you think that the problem isn't going to be worse now, have fun with trolls that are needing on downgrades and things they already have. Because that's going to be what gets out of hand.

What? People keeping their own loot?

[Aradur]

Dat sweet, sweet Tears of "Item [X] reserved for me because i deal half the dmg and any other guy has to be 20 ilvl above me BUT i made the group!-Guys"

God, i love Blizzard for this decision.

[darklady]

This is a blow to the loot systems of multi guild/cross server raids that use anything other then need/greed. So now many progression raids will close it's doors to anybody not in the guild. Want to raid with us join the guild 1st. So because Blizzard ignored ninja looters we now have a broken fix that skirts the issue and creates many others.

This is not a bad thing. Joining a raiding guild to raid with them was standard pre-Cata wow, when the game was at its peak and the community was the strongest. Cross realms were a shit idea. They destroyed a realm's identity which added to the decline of the overall wow community. Maybe requiring guild memBership to raid will return some of that.

[Magnosh]

Personal loot is fine... no more people without enough friend in the guild to run with, trying to reserve items selfishly. MORE groups will be made that benefit all, less that are setup to screw over others for self benefit. If you want a certain item... invite peeps that already have it and they can trade it to ya.

The same ''issue'' your seeing will keep being there but worst.

Lets say each 20 players drop 4 items per non tier boss, if I make a raid bring 5 friends to trade me the items i need with 15 other pugs and the player contribution is the same as before any item my friends get will be mine while every item they get is one less chance at loot you will get because the amount of players awarded with loot is decided based on the number of players.

It is worst because with ML you would probably be able to roll for the items my friends didn't need now you need to ask kindly and might get a ''sorry need mats for crafting''.

[Deleted]

This is not a bad thing. Joining a raiding guild to raid with them was standard pre-Cata wow, when the game was at its peak and the community was the strongest. Cross realms were a shit idea. They destroyed a realm's identity which added to the decline of the overall wow community. Maybe requiring guild memBership to raid will return some of that.

you can raid without being in a guild, and crossrealm imo is good thing ive met many nice and fun people with crossrealm.

[Alvito]

This is not a bad thing. Joining a raiding guild to raid with them was standard pre-Cata wow, when the game was at its peak and the community was the strongest. Cross realms were a shit idea. They destroyed a realm's identity which added to the decline of the overall wow community. Maybe requiring guild memBership to raid will return some of that.

It isn't possible for all raids or guilds to do that though. You have mixed guild raids, mixed server raids and just groups of people that are or aren't guilded. One of the longest running raids on my server has always been mixed guild and they are certainly a part of the community on the server. Now because Blizzard is side stepping a minor issue they have to alter how they raid. Having said all that I am not against incentivizing joining a guild, odd that Blizzard is pushing for it since they have been taking away guild perks since the moment they added them. What this also does is make trial or new members join the guild blindly if they want to raid, where before people could be a trial first and see if they are a fit for the guild and the guild for them. Now they have to join and then find out. This is also a change that hit raids on smaller servers or dead servers making it worse on those that stay and pushing more to jump ship. Seeing how Blizzard makes $30 a toon that leaves I am not surprised they are okay with this form of poor customer service.

[Dilbon]

Tbh PL loot trading should also be disabled in non-guild groups. There will no doubt be tons of greedy people wanting other people's loot.

[Gorgodeus]

No it wasn't "out of hand". I've been playing for 7 years and pug consistently and I could count on one hand how many times someone ML was used to give someone something they didn't win. But people being people exaggerate. And sometimes they flat out lie.

And if you think that the problem isn't going to be worse now, have fun with trolls that are needing on downgrades and things they already have. Because that's going to be what gets out of hand.

Yes, considering I was told by Blizzard that it was out hand several months ago, and that a change was coming to address it, I will go with what I was told, as opposed to your claim.

[Alvito]

Yes, considering I was told by Blizzard that it was out hand several months ago, and that a change was coming to address it, I will go with what I was told, as opposed to your claim.

I was told by a guy downtown that he was Jesus and came back to save us all. Sometimes people say things that might not be true or people take them differently then what was intended. Even if you were told that I am sure it was by one person who probably doesn't speak for the entire company.

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Tbh PL loot trading should also be disabled in non-guild groups. There will no doubt be tons of greedy people wanting other people's loot.

That will happen either way. You can't force somebody to trade so why disable it? Many would argue it should be turned off in guilded groups because people will just funnel gear to 1 or 2 toons easier now.

[Gorgodeus]

I was told by a guy downtown that he was Jesus and came back to save us all. Sometimes people say things that might not be true or people take them differently then what was intended. Even if you were told that I am sure it was by one person who probably doesn't speak for the entire company.

Yes, the change was magical and had nothing to do with what I was told. The fact of the matter is Blizzard has the data on how prevalent ninja looting and reserving was. They did not like it, and changed it. Period. Everything I was told was spot on, especially regarding the details I was given.

[Sixnalia]

Joined a great Heroic HFC group last night on my rogue. Started chatting with the other two rogues who were in similar gear. We all ended up trading off pieces to each other. I honestly really enjoyed it and am glad the system exists. Pugs feel a bit more sociable.

[Alvito]

you can raid without being in a guild, and crossrealm imo is good thing ive met many nice and fun people with crossrealm.

With out cross realm raiding many servers would have all but stopped raiding this expansion. Looking at my mains server there are 2 raids in the server top 20 that don't run with multiple ppl from other servers.

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If they just locked out groups using LFG from master loot that would be fine. The groups that aren't 80% guilded and have been running for years that now have to abandon loot systems they picked are getting pissed on due to the fear of loot ninjas. Letting people use ML if they don't use LFG, but locking it out if they do is a much better adaptation of this. Then the people that felt forced to run in groups with reserved items can be free'd of that fear/burden, the loot ninja boogeyman will be addressed and the raiders that have been using the system properly for many years can continue to do so.

[Seezer]

What? People keeping their own loot?

Oh, so it's only going to be PL? No need before greed?

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Yes, considering I was told by Blizzard that it was out hand several months ago, and that a change was coming to address it, I will go with what I was told, as opposed to your claim.

Wait, so Blizzard personally told you it was getting out of hand? I don't believe you.

[Eapoe]

Master loot wasn't bad at all as you simply need to ask the guidelines before going into a group. If an item you feel got ninja' didn't go to you, then that's your fault for not getting the specifics. Oh, and the reserved loot thing, guess what, you also don't have a leg to stand on. You choose to go with those groups.
If you can't get the specific rules out of the raid before you accept going, that is on you. It's really a shame that people can't play nice with each other and it's gotten to the point that the figurative parents say "well, you can't do this together nicely with the options, so now you have to do it this way." The only people to blame are the players for this change.

[Gorgodeus]

Oh, so it's only going to be PL? No need before greed?

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Wait, so Blizzard personally told you it was getting out of hand? I don't believe you.

I do not really care what you believe. I have had dealings with several Blizzard developers, due to once being part of the Operations and Support team of one of the most popular WoW add-ons. When I talked to one of them about this issue, I was told this change was coming and why, although at the time they were unsure as to when it would be implemented. He did say he thought it would be after Legion launch, so it appears they were able to roll it out a tad sooner.