Bye masterloot, farewell alot of pugs?

[Deleted]

People defending ML were never ninjad or they were stealing loot by their own. When you report such ninja, the loot is just destroyed, you will not get it. I was running a lot of raids and never stole anything from anyone, so yea, you can't say every masterlooter is ninja, but sometimes the loot distrubution is awful and you can't really get an asnwer why trash drop (fixed for HFC) went to ML's friend instead of rolling for it. In other side, I was ninjad so many times ... Great change in my opinion.

[Rafoel]

i think this change is pretty obvious and good overall as it stops the "MS>OS means my stuff over other's stuff" when someone joins a group that says MS>OS then they ninja gear and you try to get that piece and gms cant help cause you dident ask the loot rules.. also stops reserving in pugs, giving your freinds "roll modifiers" or right out telling people they dident do the top dps and dont deserve gear

there is alot of reasons, and this will make the gm's lives alot easier and hopefully shorten the wait time on tickets, because people wont be complaining someone else got the piece of gear they wanted...

Somehow this wasn't a problem from Vanilla until WotLK.

[Gorgodeus]

Somehow this wasn't a problem from Vanilla until WotLK.

We have not had cross-realm raids since Vanilla. Use a little common sense. Before cross realm raiding, you did not want to get a bad rep, or people would stop running with you. Now, most don't care because they have access to multiple servers of people.

[Rafoel]

We have not had cross-realm raids since Vanilla. Use a little common sense. Before cross realm raiding, you did not want to get a bad rep, or people would stop running with you. Now, most don't care because they have access to multiple servers of people.

Please... playing on Vanilla private server, and ninjas are everywhere. I encountered much more of them there than in WoD.

[darklady]

you can raid without being in a guild, and crossrealm imo is good thing ive met many nice and fun people with crossrealm.

You always could raid w/o Being in a guild. In old wow, that's what pugs were for, and ninja master looters were a problem. "I didn't ninja log! I dc'd and couldn't get Back on for awhile." Today, you can still pug but LFR is there for anyone that doesn't want to be held hostage. But I hated.....HATED..what cross realm did to my realm. It made a lot of people quit.

[Gorgodeus]

Please... playing on Vanilla private server, and ninjas are everywhere. I encountered much more of them there than in WoD.

Private servers have nothing to do with the conversation.

[Barnabas]

I couldn't imagine pugging normal nighthold after seeing how bad people are on beta with mechanics.

[Blazemoore]

This change will only help PUGS overall.

Will it hurt you and your 4 guildies who PUG 20 other players and reserve all loot? Yes

Will it help the other 20? Yes

For the life of me I can't understand why people think other players are just there to serve them. If you are running with friends, you can still trade loot as needed or form a guild to use ML. Admittedly, I wish they could make it so that this only affected groups that list in the Group Finder tool, but if we can only have it one way, this is the best way. It not only helps the ninja problem, but also the issue with 18 of 20 raiders rolling on a Vanq token.

[Dahij]

Please... playing on Vanilla private server, and ninjas are everywhere. I encountered much more of them there than in WoD.

There's your answer.

[Maudib]

The same ''issue'' your seeing will keep being there but worst.

Lets say each 20 players drop 4 items per non tier boss, if I make a raid bring 5 friends to trade me the items i need with 15 other pugs and the player contribution is the same as before any item my friends get will be mine while every item they get is one less chance at loot you will get because the amount of players awarded with loot is decided based on the number of players.

It is worst because with ML you would probably be able to roll for the items my friends didn't need now you need to ask kindly and might get a ''sorry need mats for crafting''.

Again.. it's SO much better for the very attitude you are exhibiting. All you care about it YOU getting loot... when you are part of a group effort that attitude has no place in it. As long as you participate, you will get loot.. maybe less this run this week.. maybe more next.

But that's not good enough for some.. they want to devise methods whereby they get loot MORE often. And in doing so they short other people.. but THAT is OK.

[darklady]

Somehow this wasn't a problem from Vanilla until WotLK.

That's horseshit. Not only was ninja looting common, the people doing it were shameless about it. It was the worst in 5 man dungeons up to Wrath. It got worse in Wrath when Bliz implemented dual spec and made name changing possible.

[Deleted]

Instead of praying for the rng gods 2 times (drop and roll) i only have to pray 1 time. Seems ok to me.

[Elestia]

Personal loot isn't for ninja looting, it's for shitty class stacked / melee heavy raid comps.

Whether it exists or not shouldn't matter to you OP. As you said, run your group the way you want it run. If there's miscommunication over master loot rules, then that's on the people involved. If you're someone who legitimately / intentionally ninja's gear, then you're an asshole that not many people will want to run with. Certainly, my advice if you have to pug would be to insist on PL / join PL groups. But that's only if you pug, which for most people is hardly ever / or occurs a few months into a raid release when people aren't getting the kills they want on certain bosses. The downside of that is while everyone says they know wtf they're doing, noone actually does. Don't pug kids.

[Obsession]

Does anybody want to make an argument for why personal loot is worse rather than just saying "ML wasn't that bad and I never had any problems with ninjas"

[FelPlague]

Somehow this wasn't a problem from Vanilla until WotLK.

except it was...? it wasent as bad, but it was only made a huge problem recently because of cross realm, meaning you can pull in pugs from other realms, and not have your rep tarnished for it, as back in the old days you would be labled a ninja and no one would run with you on your server, so you had to transfer

[kary]

People ninjaed from day 1 to today.
Do you think you're gonna take the time to organize a 25man pug? No? A "ninja" would. And people would join because they weren't willing to form the pugs themselves. You'd often get one pissed off person spamming trade to a chorus of "noone cares" or "git gud"
I remember taking (ninjaing) death's choice in a pug I ran. You'd be on drugs if you thought I'd let a ret paladin @ half my damage to take a bis item away after forming and leading a 25man.
Did anyone kick a fuss? nope. ymmv, though. I can tell that most of the people that cry ninja are the ones in runs doing slightly greater than tank dps.

[Elestia]

That's horseshit. Not only was ninja looting common, the people doing it were shameless about it. It was the worst in 5 man dungeons up to Wrath. It got worse in Wrath when Bliz implemented dual spec and made name changing possible.

Big time. Worst offenders: Bone Arbiter, Deathbringer's Will, Justicebringer, ... that one Ulduar sword... so many ninja items in wrath. Heck, I've even seen these items ninja'ed within my own guilds (multiple) at the time. ML very much became EPGP and EPGP very much became LC on DW. It was next level fuckery and bullshit.


These days, I don't think I've ever seen an item ninjaed.


A big part of that though I think stems from having multiple varied weapons and trinkets which benefit a variety of specs specifically enough that people will wait for BiS items.

[kary]

except it was...? it wasent as bad, but it was only made a huge problem recently because of cross realm, meaning you can pull in pugs from other realms, and not have your rep tarnished for it, as back in the old days you would be labled a ninja and no one would run with you on your server, so you had to transfer

I guess roleplaying servers were different. But literally noone on a high pop progression cares about those things.

- - - Updated - - -

Big time. Worst offenders: Bone Arbiter, Deathbringer's Will, Justicebringer, ... that one Ulduar sword... so many ninja items in wrath. Heck, I've even seen these items ninja'ed within my own guilds (multiple) at the time. ML very much became EPGP and EPGP very much became LC on DW. It was next level fuckery and bullshit.


These days, I don't think I've ever seen an item ninjaed.


A big part of that though I think stems from having multiple varied weapons and trinkets which benefit a variety of specs specifically enough that people will wait for BiS items.

Death's choice/verdict for sure ^^

[Elestia]

People ninjaed from day 1 to today.
Do you think you're gonna take the time to organize a 25man pug? No? A "ninja" would. And people would join because they weren't willing to form the pugs themselves. You'd often get one pissed off person spamming trade to a chorus of "noone cares" or "git gud"
I remember taking (ninjaing) death's choice in a pug I ran. You'd be on drugs if you thought I'd let a ret paladin @ half my damage to take a bis item away after forming and leading a 25man.
Did anyone kick a fuss? nope. ymmv, though. I can tell that most of the people that cry ninja are the ones in runs doing slightly greater than tank dps.

Damn you're an asshole. Ever occur to you that you're only doing the dps because of the gear you're already wearing? You took away an upgrade from someone looking to improve damage by improving gear, just to add it to your own when you didn't even need it. They can't fucking do that if you just take the gear away.

This is the root problem of humans in general. Why the rich get richer. Better not let anyone else be better off because I'm already so fucking great off of your misfortune (that I engineered) in the first place.

You deserve every ounce of shit thrown your way, both in game and in life.

[kary]

Damn you're an asshole. Ever occur to you that you're only doing the dps because of the gear you're already wearing? You took away an upgrade from someone looking to improve damage by improving gear, just to add it to your own when you didn't even need it. They can't fucking do that if you just take the gear away.

This is the root problem of humans in general. Why the rich get richer. Better not let anyone else be better off because I'm already so fucking great off of your misfortune (that I engineered) in the first place.

You deserve every ounce of shit thrown your way, both in game and in life.

Sure.
Only difference is that there is nothing holding the poor back in this case. There is no socio-economic imbalance in wow. If you want to get gear from nothing, you could raid, craft gear, do dungeons.

And didn't need it? Death's choice/verdict was BiS till expansion end. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about, so I'd suggest that you just shut up.

But you're right, entitlement is a problem. Entitlement is on both sides. Difference being, leaders/looters actually put in additional work.