Why are you a Republican or Democrat?

[ITER]

I disagree. If you read about Grant's plan to bring the plains Indians into submission, it was certainly genocide to the point of starving them into submission by exterminating their main source of food. The Bison. And we would not allow women to vote in the US for over a hundreds years. I would call that oppressed.

And if you know your history native americans in many cases did worst thing to the settlers and worst things to each other before europeans even got there. What I am trying to say is the VAST MAJORITY of europeans didn't purposely plan to perform an attempted genocide on the native americans. Even if they did it didn't work and why should people today be punished for something they didn't do? Should we start punishing black people for their ancestors slavery or about the mass killings of whites in countries in Africa TODAY?

The vast majority of men couldn't vote either. The wealthy women got to vote before the vast majority of men did anyways. Men got the vote because they have to register for the draft; women got it because a small wealthy group of bored housewives whined. The suffragettes would have also been labeled terrorists by today's standard since they bombed government buildings and there is suggestions that they delayed women from getting the vote. Also given women political power has destroyed every other society that has allowed it. 5 other societies have given women political power and all societies showed a massive collapse in social cohesion because it destroyed the agreement between men and women that produced society in the first place, just FYI.

[Osmeric]

I don't think there are many moderns that are enthusiastic about bringing back slavery or genocide. These aren't the things modern progressives in the United States are campaigning for/against. Instead, we find progressives that are appalled that anyone would think single mothers are anything other than brave heroes of exceptional moral virtue (to provide one example of a destructive progressive cultural preference). I do not think an endless obsession with "progress" rather than shooting for specific, achievable societal structures is a good plan.

I'm pretty sure your characterization there exists solely in your own head.

The point about slavery, etc. is that the "traditional implies good" argument is bullshit. You need to actually justify a policy on its own merits, not just View Change With Alarm.

[ITER]

Yeah the nuclear family is pretty much over. I wouldn't blame the left so much as I would feminism in the modern era. In the 1960's though I would blame the democrats for crippling blacks. Like in 1963 when people got welfare they sent someone out to check the house to make sure there wasn't a man in the house.

I know it was feminism but feminism and the left go together. For me they are one and the same. Progressive, feminism, and social justice are all part of the left and if you trace the history of their movements they are all relabeled marxism.

[Deleted]

The political spectrum in America is far right of my believes. I consider myself a moderate centrist.

[Spectral]

I'm pretty sure your characterization there exists solely in your own head.

What makes you say so? I don't think I'd have much trouble finding tons of links from mainstream progressive authors at places like Slate, Salon, or even NYT praising single mothers and expressing rage at anyone that thinks having children out of wedlock is harmful and immoral. This matches my personal experience with my mostly left-leaning circle of friends - people are thoroughly irritated with anyone that implies that having children out of wedlock is immoral. Does this not match your experience with shifting cultural norms around family formation?

edit: A 30 second googling confirms the above claim. Here's a couple from Slate:
"Single moms are better"
Stop shaming and stigmatizing single mothers
An article about how she wants a kid but not a husband

I do not think this is healthy.

The point about slavery, etc. is that the "traditional implies good" argument is bullshit. You need to actually justify a policy on its own merits, not just View Change With Alarm.

My position on tradition is not that it should be accepted without question, but that applying a Chesterton's Fence style of thinking of thinking to tradition is worthwhile. By all means, let's ask questions and change things if we can see some really clear benefits to doing so. At the same time, let's not throw out the old for no better reason than, "well, that's old".

[Adam Jensen]

Democrat/Independent: (some of these are more why I am not Republican rather than why I am Democrat)

1. Trickle-down does not work to stimulate the economy. Shoring up the middle class does. For that reason, I cannot be a Republican
2. I see no reason to treat gays as second class citizens and deny them the same rights as heterosexuals
3. I am a firm supporter of the sciences and accept the evidence for global warming, the Big Bang, and evolution
4. I am disgusted by the continued dominance of Christianity and believe that they have too much influence on government. I believe secularism is paramount to religious freedom for all (including Christians.)
5. I do not treat Islam as a whole as a threat; but only the radical elements within the religion. I do not believe religion is the true cause of Islamic terrorism (I do believe it to be a factor,) but I believe desperation, warfare, and poverty in the Middle East, where Islam happens to dominate, is the real cause.
6. I believe some form of gun control is necessary, but I'm not sure we need more gun bans. I'm more in favor of more stringent background and mental health checks, better training for gun owners, required licensing (much like one has to be licensed to drive a car,) and better enforcement of such policies.
7. I believe abortion should be the woman's choice. Don't agree with abortions? Don't get one. I believe that the best way to reduce abortion is by teaching safe sex practices to teens and providing easy access to birth control and contraceptives to women and men (why can't we hand out condoms too?)
8. I believe that crippling debt caused by medical expenses is lunacy, and downright ridiculous for a first world nation. I believe in a public option universal healthcare like most of the first world has
9. I believe it is ridiculous that young adults are expected to go to colleges in order to get jobs, and yet end up with crippling debt. An educated society is a more prosperous society so I believe in making college education cheap.
10. I do not believe in the myth that tax breaks cause job creation. I believe that demand causes job creation. So I don't support tax breaks on the rich
11. I believe it makes more economic sense to tax the rich more than the poor. I don't call it "punishment," I call it a fee for living in civilization. Taxes are a necessity.
12. I believe that the minimum wage has slipped way too low and can no longer support a worker. I believe that if you work 40 hours a week, whatever the job is, you should make a living wage and I believe that raising the wage to a living wage will improve the economy because purchasing power will rise significantly higher than prices (we're talking a few cents tacked on to goods being sold compared to having a few extra hundred bucks in the bank every paycheck.)
13. I don't believe deportation of 11 million illegals is feasible and I don't believe that the offspring of illegals, who didn't chose to come here illegally, should be punished for the actions of their parents
14. I believe in a better path to citizenship for immigrants
15. I believe a wall on the Mexican border is a waste of money and highly inefficient at stopping illegal immigration (most illegals enter the US legally and through airports, they overstay their visas and simply don't leave.)
16. I believe regulation of finance is a necessary thing. I did not close my ears when I was taught about the Gilded Age and the robber barons in American history; we all saw what unregulated Corporate America did in the late 1800's/early 1900's. And we all saw what it did again in 2008.
17. Related, I disagree with libertarians too, I do not believe an unregulated free market is the answer to our problems.
18. I do not fear socialism (or any other ism, including fascism) but instead believe in a mixed economic system. I do not believe that having a few socialist policies will "turn us into the USSR" or crash the economy or bring upon the apocalypse. I've seen how these mixed economies tend to actually work in most cases.
19. I do not believe in "small government." I believe in effective government, being as big or small as it needs to be to function effectively. I don't believe that being small, for the sake of being small, is a good thing.
20. I believe the environment is something that needs protection from human activity. We are in the sixth extinction event of Earth's history, and we humans are the cause. So I believe in supporting clean energy, clean technology, so we don't end up victims of ourselves and maybe even stop the sixth extinction in its tracks.
21. I believe in the legalization of pot, so long as the smokers remain out of the public while smoking and don't operate machinery while high. I think the amount of people we jail just for possession or use is obscene
22. I am a firm supporter of Net Neutrality
23. I am a firm supporter of NASA

In short, I disagree with the vast majority of Republican stances, and agree with most the Democrat stances.

[Barnabas]

I know it was feminism but feminism and the left go together. For me they are one and the same. Progressive, feminism, and social justice are all part of the left and if you trace the history of their movements they are all relabeled marxism.

Well yes in succession they cause more harm than good.

[Adam Jensen]

I love the USA. I feel Democrats either don't appreciate the USA at best, and hate it at worse. If somebody is in the USA and burning and American flag, I assume it's a liberal.

I too love the US. And I assume most liberals do. But I believe loving the US is to also admit its faults and weaknesses, so that such things can be fixed. We don't agree with exceptionalism, perhaps, but that doesn't mean we don't think America can't be a great nation that lives up to its ideals of freedom and liberty and justice. But we criticize when we see it isn't acting in a manner supporting those ideals.

[Barnabas]

Democrat/Independent: (some of these are more why I am not Republican rather than why I am Democrat)

1. Trickle-down does not work to stimulate the economy. Shoring up the middle class does. For that reason, I cannot be a Republican
2. I see no reason to treat gays as second class citizens and deny them the same rights as heterosexuals
3. I am a firm supporter of the sciences and accept the evidence for global warming, the Big Bang, and evolution
4. I am disgusted by the continued dominance of Christianity and believe that they have too much influence on government. I believe secularism is paramount to religious freedom for all (including Christians.)
5. I do not treat Islam as a whole as a threat; but only the radical elements within the religion. I do not believe religion is the true cause of Islamic terrorism (I do believe it to be a factor,) but I believe desperation, warfare, and poverty in the Middle East, where Islam happens to dominate, is the real cause.
6. I believe some form of gun control is necessary, but I'm not sure we need more gun bans. I'm more in favor of more stringent background and mental health checks, better training for gun owners, required licensing (much like one has to be licensed to drive a car,) and better enforcement of such policies.
7. I believe abortion should be the woman's choice. Don't agree with abortions? Don't get one. I believe that the best way to reduce abortion is by teaching safe sex practices to teens and providing easy access to birth control and contraceptives to women and men (why can't we hand out condoms too?)
8. I believe that crippling debt caused by medical expenses is lunacy, and downright ridiculous for a first world nation. I believe in a public option universal healthcare like most of the first world has
9. I believe it is ridiculous that young adults are expected to go to colleges in order to get jobs, and yet end up with crippling debt. An educated society is a more prosperous society so I believe in making college education cheap.
10. I do not believe in the myth that tax breaks cause job creation. I believe that demand causes job creation. So I don't support tax breaks on the rich
11. I believe it makes more economic sense to tax the rich more than the poor. I don't call it "punishment," I call it a fee for living in civilization. Taxes are a necessity.
12. I believe that the minimum wage has slipped way too low and can no longer support a worker. I believe that if you work 40 hours a week, whatever the job is, you should make a living wage and I believe that raising the wage to a living wage will improve the economy because purchasing power will rise significantly higher than prices (we're talking a few cents tacked on to goods being sold compared to having a few extra hundred bucks in the bank every paycheck.)
13. I don't believe deportation of 11 million illegals is feasible and I don't believe that the offspring of illegals, who didn't chose to come here illegally, should be punished for the actions of their parents
14. I believe in a better path to citizenship for immigrants
15. I believe a wall on the Mexican border is a waste of money and highly inefficient at stopping illegal immigration (most illegals enter the US legally and through airports, they overstay their visas and simply don't leave.)
16. I believe regulation of finance is a necessary thing. I did not close my ears when I was taught about the Gilded Age and the robber barons in American history; we all saw what unregulated Corporate America did in the late 1800's/early 1900's. And we all saw what it did again in 2008.
17. Related, I disagree with libertarians too, I do not believe an unregulated free market is the answer to our problems.
18. I do not fear socialism (or any other ism, including fascism) but instead believe in a mixed economic system. I do not believe that having a few socialist policies will "turn us into the USSR" or crash the economy or bring upon the apocalypse. I've seen how these mixed economies tend to actually work in most cases.
19. I do not believe in "small government." I believe in effective government, being as big or small as it needs to be to function effectively. I don't believe that being small, for the sake of being small, is a good thing.
20. I believe the environment is something that needs protection from human activity. We are in the sixth extinction event of Earth's history, and we humans are the cause. So I believe in supporting clean energy, clean technology, so we don't end up victims of ourselves and maybe even stop the sixth extinction in its tracks.
21. I believe in the legalization of pot, so long as the smokers remain out of the public while smoking and don't operate machinery while high. I think the amount of people we jail just for possession or use is obscene
22. I am a firm supporter of Net Neutrality
23. I am a firm supporter of NASA

In short, I disagree with the vast majority of Republican stances, and agree with most the Democrat stances.

Our path to citizenship is fine. Plenty of people come over here and become citizens. Then you have plenty of people that choose to come here illegally and never really want to become citizens. Then you have a party holding them hostage with promises the party knows we can't afford. It's all a lie.

[Spectral]

It is unclear to me what value there is in distinguishing between a married couple and an unmarried lifelong partnership for the purposes of child rearing. I think this is a bit beside the point of what you originally outlined though. I don't think anyone would disagree that it's less than ideal for children to be raised by a single parent instead of two parents in a stable environment under normal circumstances–indeed research confirms the latter is superior–but I think what people are resisting is the tendency of some to act like single mothers are just the worst kind of person, up to and including labeling them stupid lazy sluts and all of the hate and maligning that goes with it, as opposed to a more sympathetic and understanding portrayal.

I linked an article that's literally titled "It's Better To Be Raised By A Single Mom". I don't think any reasonable person would disagree that it's better to be raised by two parents, yet here we are. Some progressives hate tradition and religion so much that they don't just claim that we should be nice to single mothers, but actually claim that you're better off without a father. It's hard to believe anyone really believes that, but that's kinda my point.

I do not think we should act like single mothers are the worst kind of person, but I think we should all agree that they've made a very bad mistake that's quite harmful to their child. We should socially shun and ostracize the men that leave these women. Actions that result in a child needlessly having only one parent are immoral and I believe that people who are unwilling to say so are guilty of moral cowardice. The outcome of this moral cowardice is a generation of children where nearly half don't have fathers in the picture - I don't think this is healthy for society.

- - - Updated - - -

Our path to citizenship is fine. Plenty of people come over here and become citizens. Then you have plenty of people that choose to come here illegally and never really want to become citizens. Then you have a party holding them hostage with promises the party knows we can't afford. It's all a lie.

Our path to citizenship is an utter trainwreck for the smartest, most skilled people. Watching friends of mine in science get rebuffed and bounced around to various idiotic bureaucracies is pretty discouraging. These are people that we should be expediting citizenship for, the kind of industrious, productive people that we should love having become Americans.

[Deleted]

Trump republican

[Rhinopotamus]

Not american, but if i was. Id be a democrat. Dont like homophobes for evident reasons.

Ignorance is bliss.

[Adam Jensen]

I've never registered with any party. Don't have to in my state. I'm not either Republican or Democrat because neither fits my views.

I registered Dem so I could vote for Bernie in the primary.

[Spectral]

Bucks alt account?

Must be. It's literally impossible that multiple people have similar ideas about the state of American culture.

[ITER]

Bucks alt account?

Nope, just can understand the hard truths about reality and realize it doesn't make me a bad person like the left would tell you it does.

[Stormspellz]

The reason he says this and the reason he is right is because the left is against everything that made America the way it was. All the current policies of the left want to destroy the traditional America. Traditional societies are what last and progress civilization. They are what work. The ideas of the left, while they sound great, don't work in reality and will cause your civilization to collapse or be invaded. They see traditional America as evil. I am sorry but these ideas of cultural Marxism that has infected the left are beyond wrong and quiet dangerous.

What do you define "traditional america" as? Because thats a lot propaganda but short on facts

[Rhinopotamus]

I too love the US. And I assume most liberals do. But I believe loving the US is to also admit its faults and weaknesses, so that such things can be fixed. We don't agree with exceptionalism, perhaps, but that doesn't mean we don't think America can't be a great nation that lives up to its ideals of freedom and liberty and justice. But we criticize when we see it isn't acting in a manner supporting those ideals.

Liberals are the only ones who get mad at America for doing what needed to be done to secure the current future we have now. I mean hey we could have not helped Europe at all in World War II, and watched as it blown to pieces again, and in modern times, I don't think I'd have a problem with that, it'd make you liberal fucks a lot more thankful. Also people hate on America for having borders when every other third world nation has them, also some of the "facts" that liberals pull out of their semen filled assholes is incredible.

[ITER]

Oh please, do tell us these hard truths.

But why? When we can just skip to the end and you can use the left's tactic of calling me all the names ending it -ist and saying the things are untrue because the news told me so.

I can if you are actually interesting in having a debate.

[Stormspellz]

Liberals are the only ones who get mad at America for doing what needed to be done to secure the current future we have now. I mean hey we could have not helped Europe at all in World War II, and watched as it blown to pieces again, and in modern times, I don't think I'd have a problem with that, it'd make you liberal fucks a lot more thankful. Also people hate on America for having borders when every other third world nation has them, also some of the "facts" that liberals pull out of their semen filled assholes is incredible.

Yes invading Iraq sure has given us a secure future? Or trying to get off a fossil fuel that is harming the enviroment. Speaking of the environment we like we our streams and rivers don't have coal ash and other toxic run offs in them.

What are these "things" you refer to that Liberals hate that secure our future.

- - - Updated - - -

But why? When we can just skip to the end and you can use the left's tactic of calling me all the names ending it -ist and saying the things are untrue because the news told me so.

I can if you are actually interesting in having a debate.

Yes tell these hard "truths" and what "traditional america" is. Because all you have done is spew out bullshit rhetoric so far.

[ITER]

What do you define "traditional america" as? Because thats a lot propaganda but short on facts

Men and women having the option of doing what they want but society promoting the traditional/biological roles because its what works and what makes people happy.
To promote the nuclear family and tight-nit communities.
To work hard and stop playing the victim.
Small government that doesn't try to micromanage people's lives and let normal people solve their own problems.
To only allowed the best, brightest, and people who want to ASSIMILATE and become Americans here.
To promote capitalism not crony capitalism/corporations in bed with the government.
No making special rules for the minority and having the minority dictate to the majority.