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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by FayrenPickpocket View Post
    FoF cannot be interrupted with an interrupt, it has to be a hard CC. You can still see a tremendous amount of burst by choosing RJW to alternate with BoK instead of a TP, energizing brew, and the new serenity yet. It still very much exists. If you pick serenity, you don't have to worry about SEF.

    You could pick up CJL cancelling too to take advantage of the mastery too.
    Don't nitpick "interruptible". The point is it can be interrupted, thus why I said interruptible. A warrior charge, a priest fear, a warlock fear, a mage's dragon breath. A DH's Fel Eruption or Meta or a rogue's blind.

    CJL canceling still invokes a global, and RJW has a cd and deals damage over time (by its definition, not burst in PvP).

    Monk is doing less burst damage in legion, is far squishier without nimble brew and expel harm, and is more vulnerable to caster teams without zen meditation; that is simply not up for debate. Their healing also took a dump with the loss of the TEB healing boost.


    They didn't even bother to buff Effuse for the pre-patch, it virtually heals for nothing. My WW is healing for 28k out of a 500k HP pool at 100 with it, it costs energy, and unlike other melee it has a cast time that cannot be made instant. Effuse is a terrible substitute for expel harm.
    Last edited by Lucrece; 2016-07-23 at 05:04 AM.

  2. #82
    July 22 Patch notes

    Monk

    Chi Orbit is now only visible to the casting Monk and hostile players.

    Thank goodness!

  3. #83
    Based off Warcraftlogs and personal experience WW perfomance is pretty lackluster at 100. Do things improve at 110? I know things are tuned for 110 and artifact weapons but it still sucks.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Shoeboots View Post
    If anything, this mastery makes you add a bit of variety for the sake of avoiding a double BoK. I mean, just look at this thread. People are discussing different ideas on what to push because of the mastery.
    I just want to clarify that avoiding a double BoK ONLY matters with the Hit Combo talent. Combo Strikes itself is essentially just a flat % damage gain.

  5. #85
    Stood in the Fire Pipboi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoeboots View Post
    Again, I think this is irrational. If the mastery doesn't exist you have a much more inflexible priority rotation to follow. If anything, this mastery makes you add a bit of variety for the sake of avoiding a double BoK. I mean, just look at this thread. People are discussing different ideas on what to push because of the mastery. So again, I'm sorry you're not into it. But it's not forcing a mandatory rotation. It's the only thing keeping us from a mandatory rotation. Without it we're basically ret pallies: exact same rotation no matter what in all scenarios. I levelled Ret and WW side by side on beta and found WW to be so much more interesting and exciting, even if pallies are my hands down favourite thematically. WW just feels unpredictable, even if it really isn't. It's this extra layer of "ok so I know what button I should push next but I can't because of mastery so what else should I push?" And sure. It ultimately boils down to a priority list. But it's a list that is slightly more complex and at least for me that makes it more fun.

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    Ok but this seems like semantics to me. I could edit my previous post to say 'add' instead of 'do' and the point would stand.

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    I think you're just not into windwalker and that's fine. I'm just suggesting that it's not a bad spec simply because it's not for you.
    I never stated that it was a bad spec because of this.
    Just that I hate the change. And I do. I no longer find Windwalker to be as fun as I used to. I felt like I had more flexibility before, some people feel differently. And that's cool too.
    I agree that if the majority of monks like the Mastery then it should stay as is. I'm simply adding my voice and opinion to the discussion.
    It looks like I'm in the minority so I'll just have to adjust to changing times.
    Cheers!

  6. #86
    I love the mastery. I never mained ww before so idk what I missed but I the rotation. I scorn myself when I see my hit combo buff drop cause I know I messed up only have problems with a lot of target swapping and forgetting what prior ability I just used lol. Maybe I'm just getting old in that regard. But I thoroughly enjoy the spec and I'm looking forward to raiding in legion. Ww has been the only melee spec I've enjoyed. I want that stone fist artifact skin!
    "I'm Tru @ w/e I do" ~ TM

  7. #87
    They should make it that combo breaker Blackout kicks don't mess up mastery/hit combo if done after another Blackout kick.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by HHHGame78 View Post
    They should make it that combo breaker Blackout kicks don't mess up mastery/hit combo if done after another Blackout kick.
    well you get a free RSK Before that Como breaker: Blackout kick don't you?, so the Hit combo doesn't go anywhere

    unless you are saving that BoK! for other purposes

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    Quote Originally Posted by Selindae View Post
    Based off Warcraftlogs and personal experience WW perfomance is pretty lackluster at 100. Do things improve at 110? I know things are tuned for 110 and artifact weapons but it still sucks.
    I don't think 300k+ dps at pull is lackluster, mantain it on the other hand..

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Selindae View Post
    Based off Warcraftlogs and personal experience WW perfomance is pretty lackluster at 100. Do things improve at 110? I know things are tuned for 110 and artifact weapons but it still sucks.
    The strong classes at lv100 are the classes with broken tier set/class trinket interactions, such as demo lock/shadow priest/fire mage/ele shaman/unholy DK. Disregard any balance at 100.

    However, last we saw at 110 Monk was pretty middle to upper middle of the pack. We're pretty good at cleave, but then so are mages and DK's and warriors and rogues, and unlike all those we don't have multiple DPS specs to have a spec that excels at single target, which we currently don't.

  10. #90
    I'm definitely finding that I'm chi capped a lot in dungeons and LFR as I get used to the new spec. I'm not sure if this is normal or if it's related to the fact that my monk is crazy haste stacked because I had a chi-ex build in 6.2. Either way, I didn't really find this to be the case on beta so hopefully it will normalize. Anyone else having trouble with this? Will changing my gems/enchants make a difference do you think?

  11. #91
    Just a note - Tier 18 bonus now is a 10 second buff and only stacks to 5. Shouldn't really affect anything but now you won't have stacks going pre-pull on bosses.

  12. #92
    Deleted
    I used to be really critical towards the spec during alpha and I have to say that I am actually happy with how the spec turned out.
    But I still have some issues.
    SEF is still clunky as hell. The fact that you have to wait almost a full seco d before the spirits start dpsing the right target, the fact that you can't press any abilities meanwhile or you risk dealing only 45% dmg and the fact that during solo play, the spirits drag mobs away from you and they can even die.
    Spinning Dragon Kick is the best spell we could have get. I am loving the combo properties it has and the effect, but I don't like being rooted to the spot while casting the spell and also, sometimes the spell gets you so high you are out of melee range and you miss on GCD. This mabe won't happen on raid bosses, but it can happen on boss mobs.
    Also Idk if this is a bug, but sometimes the game lets me use the SDK without RSK being on Cd.

    The aoe fighting with SCK is still pretty uneventful and boring, not a fan of that, but I guess thats sticking for now.
    Last edited by mmocad3e65e5d1; 2016-07-23 at 05:25 PM.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smog View Post
    Can you guys confirm something for me? I've just been idly playing most of the specs in the game up to 104 or so, toying with their artifacts, exploring the new kits, etc. Do you guys have the hardest hitting single ability in the game with Strike of the Windlord?

    It looks like it hits for 4500% AP baseline plus potential crits? I'm not sure I've found anything else that even comes close to this. DH artifact ability hits for ~3130% AP after the boosted Golden Dragon. An outlaw rogue's 6pt fully boosted x4 crit Between the Eyes hits for ~2400% AP. Even Fury's Artifact boosted Execute, which takes a long, long time to build up, only hits for about 4500% AP.

    I'm not at all saying this is imbalanced. I'm sure you guys are balanced around this. I'm honestly just curious if ww monks now hold the title for hardest hitting single ability / hardest hitting burst ability, and if not, which class and ability have I forgotten?
    Can any of you monks that are knowledgeable about the other legion class kits weigh in?

  14. #94
    Hey Bab's, wanted to tell you that on chi burst it says I have a message and when I click it a virus type thing that says Microsoft issue etc.. I restarted and fine, but wanted to let you know...

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Shoeboots View Post
    I'm definitely finding that I'm chi capped a lot in dungeons and LFR as I get used to the new spec. I'm not sure if this is normal or if it's related to the fact that my monk is crazy haste stacked because I had a chi-ex build in 6.2. Either way, I didn't really find this to be the case on beta so hopefully it will normalize. Anyone else having trouble with this? Will changing my gems/enchants make a difference do you think?
    Take rushing jade wind instead of hit combo and all your chi point troubles should be gone.

    I'm going RJW even if hit combo beats it for single target, playing hit combo is insufferable as it makes you much less flexible.

    The rotation is also incredibly dull if I don't take RJW.
    Last edited by Lucrece; 2016-07-23 at 11:21 PM.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucrece View Post
    Take rushing jade wind instead of hit combo and all your chi point troubles should be gone.

    I'm going RJW even if hit combo beats it for single target, playing hit combo is insufferable as it makes you much less flexible.

    The rotation is also incredibly dull if I don't take RJW.
    I don't know if I'd go so far as to call hit combo dull but I definitely enjoy RJW in the rotation much more so I'll try your advice. I'm hoping RJW comes ahead on virtually every fight except the ones with a single target the whole encounter. One big advantage of not using hit combo is if I need some aoe burst I can TP twice in a row and sacrifice the Mastery bonus on one TP to get to my spenders faster. Hit Combo makes that move problematic.

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    I also miss Xuen. I know it's a boring talent but I love seeing him join the fight. He's my boy!

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Staggered View Post
    Just a note - Tier 18 bonus now is a 10 second buff and only stacks to 5. Shouldn't really affect anything but now you won't have stacks going pre-pull on bosses.
    You sure about only stacking to 5? In the database, it stacks to 6 stacks. I know there was a bug where Rising sun kick was removing a stack but gaining 2 stack (so a net of 1 stack if there was a buff prior to RSK being cast). Where-as Fists of Fury was not removing stacks but gaining 3 stacks. So Rising Sun Kick -> FoF -> RSK proc = 6 stacks. As for the 10 second duration, that does not surprise me given that Mistweavers were able to abuse the set bonus by getting a stack pre-pull, switch to mistweaver spec and able to hold onto the 10% mastery buff if they didn't use any melee attacks.

  18. #98
    Deleted
    Coming fresh from our beta test tonight.

    I came up with my own opener
    Chi wave - Jab - ToD - SEF - Strike of Windlord - Energizing - FoF - RSK - WDP
    Might not be the best one, but you get all the important spells into your ToD window, correct me please.
    Because I haven't found a way to reset my talents I rolled with Hit combo for multiple bosses. Hit combo is not that hard to use, it would be good to have some WA or in game indicator of what was the last spell I used tho. But I found that not being able to double tap that BOK, you are capping on Chi a lot, especially if you also want to use the Energizing on CD. I believe that with RJW this is no issue at all, but it was a big one for me with Hit Combo. Most of the times my free BOK procced I just ignored it, and it went to waste.
    I still don't understand why SCK is so hard to use, especially when we got 3 awesome AoE burst abilities (fof, strike, WDP/RJW) It feels like too much trouble to set up, if you don't have SEF out and it doesn't feel bursty enough. I dunno the right numbers right, maybe I am wrong, but it still feels wrong to use SCK instead of FoF or WDP for aoe burst.

    Being away from melee range is a sad thing now. In WoD, you atleast had Expel Harm or ChiExp, but now you are completly useless.
    Also, still not a fan of WDP rooting you in place and deffinitely not a fan of ToD having a gcd.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucrece View Post
    Don't nitpick "interruptible". The point is it can be interrupted, thus why I said interruptible. A warrior charge, a priest fear, a warlock fear, a mage's dragon breath. A DH's Fel Eruption or Meta or a rogue's blind.

    CJL canceling still invokes a global, and RJW has a cd and deals damage over time (by its definition, not burst in PvP).

    Monk is doing less burst damage in legion, is far squishier without nimble brew and expel harm, and is more vulnerable to caster teams without zen meditation; that is simply not up for debate. Their healing also took a dump with the loss of the TEB healing boost.


    They didn't even bother to buff Effuse for the pre-patch, it virtually heals for nothing. My WW is healing for 28k out of a 500k HP pool at 100 with it, it costs energy, and unlike other melee it has a cast time that cannot be made instant. Effuse is a terrible substitute for expel harm.
    Please stop whatever you're trying to do with all these posts.
    You're saying flat out wrong stuff and spamming it in our faces, contradicting yourself in your two posts this page, and claiming that what you say is not up for debate?


    FoF cannot be interrupted. Yes our damage burst can be CC'd, though a warrior's charge will not. However each tick of FoF is worth some burst, and I don't know ANY class that can burst while being dragon breath'd. That's just me. Same goes for rogue's blind.
    Wow burst in pvp is rarely about one GCD or two dealing massive damage, it's setting up a 5-10 seconds window where you deal more damage while healers are CC'd. In that regard, RJW dealing big damage over time is good since you can just get it rolling prior to burst, and it'll add up to your damage in the following seconds. SO yes, RJW helps bursting.
    "damage over time, by its definition, not burst in PvP". What's that supposed to mean. Damage over 5 seconds IS what allows for burst in PvP.

    Monk is doing less burst damage in legion? With an instant FoF in the form of Strike of the Windlord on top of fists of Fury? With whirling dragon punch to finish things up if you go that route?

    Then you go on to argue about WW healing at lvl 100. Funnily enough, you stated yourself that the game is not balanced around lvl 100. Pvp is not even up in prepatch, why do you care how effuse scales at lvl 100? Wouldn't you rather worry about how we get a HoT for 20% of our HP every 25 seconds early on in Legion?

    Also, all this pvp squishyness is a non issue since that's what pvp templates are made for. Look, Blizzard has complete control over the amount of versatility you get in legion pvp; they also give you fortifying brew back through honor talents (yes, I assumed you meant the loss of fortifying brew made us squishier, for nimble brew made no sense).


    Other thing: CJL doesn't take a GCD to keep mastery up. Some people use this thread as information about their windwalkers; please avoid stating things you have no idea wether they are true or not, for it is really hard to fight misinformation.
    I still don't see why you keep saying playing RJW helps slowing down the rotation. We allready have a 1 chi spender in the form of BoK that's basically our chi dump. Playing RJW in NO WAY can ever slow down the rotation?
    Last edited by pandanaconda; 2016-07-24 at 10:48 PM.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by pandanaconda View Post
    I still don't see why you keep saying playing RJW helps slowing down the rotation. We allready have a 1 chi spender in the form of BoK that's basically our chi dump. Playing RJW in NO WAY can ever slow down the rotation?
    The expand on this thought. The rotation with RJW is to "REPLACE" a BoK whenever possible. Sure there will be times in which you go RJW -> TP -> BoK (since RJW will still be up) but generally speaking you are replacing BoK for RJW.

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