As We've Been Saying, California's Minimum Wage Rises Increase Unemployment

[JohnBrown1917]

What are you basing this claim on? Data from both CPI and MIT's Billion Price Project indicate that inflation has been low during the entirety of the post-recession economic timeline in the United States. There are a few niche goods that are significantly more expensive, but things mostly haven't jumped much.

Wile 15$ is high, that still does not change min. wage has not gone up with inflation.

[Paranoid Android]

Indeed you are correct, but I don't think 15 an hour would still leave people with enough disposable income to be picky.I worked all day and am exhausted, im going to bed, I appreciate the conversation from those of you that were civil Vanyali, Genn and Crissi. I appreciate it, I really do.

$15/hr wage is not suppose to bring people all of sudden into the middle class or have disposable income to buy "better" items. The wage (yes we can argue $15/hr part) is suppose to be enough for a person to live week to week.

[Orange Joe]

I know right.

I mean...hmmmm, whose ideas should be more valid, some random rabid leftist on the internet who's probably eating cheerios in his underwear in moms basement

or a world renowned economist....
hmmmmmm

lol.... please list his credentials.

World renowned.... hahahahahaha

[Spectral]

$15/hr wage is not suppose to bring people all of sudden into the middle class or have disposable income to buy "better" items. The wage (yes we can argue $15/hr part) is suppose to be enough for a person to live week to week.

Outside of very, very expensive cities, a full time job at $10/hour is sufficient to provide for week-to-week living. I lived on a similar wage to this throughout graduate school and did basically fine; it requires not wasting money particularly often, but it didn't require any crazy level of frugality. For a couple, this is even easier - $10/hour for two people at 40 hours/week is a $40K/year income, which really is sufficient for a couple to live decently.

[Adam Jensen]

Why do people keep linking to a site that won't let anyone read?

Yeah, I refuse to turn off my adblocker to read Forbes. So fuck you Forbes.

But truly, why do we have these doom and gloom articles all the time, when the minimum wage has risen, multiple times, through out the US history, and throughout the world, and never brought along any apocalyptic job loss?

And why should someone working a 40 hour a week, full time job, not be paid enough that he can live without being on welfare?

[Xeones]

Yeah, I refuse to turn off my adblocker to read Forbes. So fuck you Forbes.

But truly, why do we have these doom and gloom articles all the time, when the minimum wage has risen, multiple times, through out the US history, and throughout the world, and never brought along any apocalyptic job loss?

And why should someone working a 40 hour a week, full time job, not be paid enough that he can live without being on welfare?

Because obviously the way capitalism works is we need to compete! We need to have US workers compete with sweat shop workers and forced labor (literal slavery) across the world if we want jobs!

[Paranoid Android]

Yeah, I refuse to turn off my adblocker to read Forbes. So fuck you Forbes.

But truly, why do we have these doom and gloom articles all the time, when the minimum wage has risen, multiple times, through out the US history, and throughout the world, and never brought along any apocalyptic job loss?

And why should someone working a 40 hour a week, full time job, not be paid enough that he can live without being on welfare?

I of course cannot have some make the same wage as me, because who can I talk shit about then. Realize maybe my job I currently have a X dollars/hr is underpaying me. Why should I use history facts to prove my rant wrong.

Do you want me to sound anymore irrational? I will. I swear.

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Because obviously the way capitalism works is we need to compete! We need to have US workers compete with sweat shop workers and forced labor (literal slavery) across the world if we want jobs!

You just don't get it. If Americans competed for 25 cent/hr jobs then think all those jobs we would get back from overseas.

[endersblade]

If minimum wage had actually kept up with the ever-creeping up cost of things, I would bet it would be around $15 or more at this point. I find it hilarious that people flip shit over people making enough money to actually survive. So min. wage has fallen far, far behind where it should be, and now we want to move it closer to where it should be. No no no, people can't make that kind of money!

Minimum wage used to be $5. Imagine going back and telling those people that it would be bumped to $9 (which is around what it is now). I wonder if they'd have the same reaction.

[Xeones]

You just don't get it. If Americans competed for 25 cent/hr jobs then think all those jobs we would get back from overseas.

Exactly, we could get all the things.

[Adam Jensen]

If minimum wage had actually kept up with the ever-creeping up cost of things, I would bet it would be around $15 or more at this point. I find it hilarious that people flip shit over people making enough money to actually survive. So min. wage has fallen far, far behind where it should be, and now we want to move it closer to where it should be. No no no, people can't make that kind of money!

Minimum wage used to be $5. Imagine going back and telling those people that it would be bumped to $9 (which is around what it is now). I wonder if they'd have the same reaction.

What gets me is the same people shrieking about the wage going up, also shrieks about all the people on welfare! The majority of people on welfare have jobs and earn minimum wage. The best way to lower the number of people on welfare, is to ensure their jobs can support them, and that requires a minimum wage hike increase.

I'm a firm believer that someone working a full time job should make enough money that they need not be on welfare to get by.

[Paranoid Android]

What gets me is the same people shrieking about the wage going up, also shrieks about all the people on welfare! The majority of people on welfare have jobs and earn minimum wage. The best way to lower the number of people on welfare, is to ensure their jobs can support them, and that requires a minimum wage hike increase.

I'm a firm believer that someone working a full time job should make enough money that they need not be on welfare to get by.

Shhh!! You are being rational. Its much easier to make a poster about "Welfare Queens" plus the added bonus that raising the minimum wage is going to destroy business. That is a double daily to the conservative side.

We can also agree how its funny that conservatives are fine with Corporate welfare for some reason.

[alexw]

actually, there are quite a few valid arguments for eliminating the minimum wage altogether. Lower wages means more people are hired which means shortages of labor, which means people who are more productive will get paid higher.

This is complete and total garbage. You know this already so why do you keep repeating this meaningless gibberish? I have to ask are you a high earner? Are you propagandizing to advance your own pocket book?

In reality what drives employment is demand for goods and services and that depends on relative spending power and propensity to spend. This is a basic fact of economics that everyone in the field recognizes. It is also widely recognized that there is a system wide deficit of aggregate demand, which explains why interest rates have been set so low - low interest rates boost borrowing capacity and thus boost short term spending power.

If we did what you suggest we would shift income from the low paid to the higher paid and thus from those with a high propensity to spend to those with a lower one. That would obviously cause aggregate demand to fall, and consequently cause unemployment to rise. So why are you lying and saying the exact opposite will occur?

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Cheaper labor means you can hire more people to expand business. Lower labor costs means that business can expand faster.

Yeah businesses are going to hire people to produce what they can't sell /golfclap

[Paranoid Android]

This is complete and total garbage. You know this already so why do you keep repeating this meaningless gibberish? I have to ask are you a high earner? Are you propagandizing to advance your own pocket book?

In reality what drives employment is demand for goods and services and that depends on relative spending power and propensity to spend. This is a basic fact of economics that everyone in the field recognizes. It is also widely recognized that there is a system wide deficit of aggregate demand, which explains why interest rates have been set so low - low interest rates boost borrowing capacity and thus boost short term spending power.

If we did what you suggest we would shift income from the low paid to the higher paid and thus from those with a high propensity to spend to those with a lower one. That would obviously cause aggregate demand to fall, and consequently cause unemployment to rise. So why are you lying and saying the exact opposite will occur?

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Yeah businesses are going to hire people to produce what they can't sell /golfclap

Tony does amaze me sometimes. He always makes the argument that less taxes means more jobs or now cheaper labor means more jobs.

We all know businesses do not hire people to just to hire. They hire a people to fit a need or role that will increase production, aka profit of their company. If this was the case any top 500 Fortune company should be hiring people left and right. Oh yeah companies and specifically publicly traded corporations are in business for their shareholders.

[Kalisandra]

artificial increases in wages are not a sign of good economics and hurt the employer

THE MARKET PAYS WHAT THE MARKET WILL BEAR

Meaning that as long as there's a surplus of low-skilled labour (and historically this has always been the case except at harvest times), and it isn't well organised (and thus able to enforce a monopoly of supply of labour), the pay rate for this kind of labour will be just sufficient to allow the labourers to survive to work, unless moving to somewhere with a decent minimum wage law is very cheap, in which case it'll be just high enough to make moving very slightly worse than staying put.

Read your history - without laws protecting labour, the poorer people in society get exploited to hell and back, and paid starvation wages. Never mind that this is actually harmful to the economy in the longer run, it looks good on the quarterly and annual bottom lines.

[Chrysia]

Politicians want companies to pay more.
Companies say they cant afford it and warn of layoffs/cutbacks.
Politicians ignore the realities of business, fan the class warfare flames, and raise the wage.
Businesses layoff workers or cut back their hours to stay in business.
...people say the two aren't connected.

That's an amazing level of self-inflicted denial and I think we need a christen a new meme.

#WageDeniers

Except California added jobs. The increase in unemployment in California, per the linked article, is because people are actively looking for work again.

[Ripster42]

You know why this is bullshit? Because cali literally has the 2nd highest GDP growth and job growth in the country right now.

[nanook12]

Talk about a rock and a hard place. Seems as if both republicans and democrats alike are both correct and incorrect at the same time. Republicans were right that increasing the minimum wage decreases employment. However, we can't let people work for pennies a day just to make sure everyone is employed. Democrat's were wrong that increasing the minimum wage wouldn't increase unemployment. However, they are right that a minimum wage is needed.

It is almost as if you need to find a balancing point (sarcasm). It is almost as if it is stupid to hate or like either party when the real answer lies in the middle ground (more sarcasm). It is almost as if the constant tug of war between the parties accomplishes this middle ground if both are treated equally (and even more sarcasm).

[Theinquisition]

Talk about a rock and a hard place. Seems as if both republicans and democrats alike are both correct and incorrect at the same time. Republicans were right that increasing the minimum wage decreases employment. However, we can't let people work for pennies a day just to make sure everyone is employed. Democrat's were wrong that increasing the minimum wage wouldn't increase unemployment. However, they are right that a minimum wage is needed.

It is almost as if you need to find a balancing point (sarcasm). It is almost as if it is stupid to hate or like either party when the real answer lies in the middle ground (more sarcasm). It is almost as if the constant tug of war between the parties accomplishes this middle ground if both are treated equally (and even more sarcasm).

Most sensible bullshit I've heard all day

[GennGreymane]

You know why this is bullshit? Because cali literally has the 2nd highest GDP growth and job growth in the country right now.

Cali is also one of the largest economies in the world.

[Alexeht]

Unemployment increased because BlackLivesMatter. No I don't need no proof ...

On serious side I think it is caused by shitty businesses which was already on edge of bankruptcy, and imo if they cannot afford a 2 dollar per hour more (if I get right information) they should close a long time ago ...