Why it's time to accept the fact that Brexit may never happen

[Deleted]

Anytime anyone mentions "immigration" with regards to Brexit what they actually mean is refugees.

Everyone got over the Poles in the 2000s, and the hordes of Bulgarians and Romanians that were supposed to turn up, didn't.

Given the uptick in racist incidents involving poles no.

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Met every leave voter have we?

I'd say a straw poll of people I discussed with it came up with about 60% of the "I'm not a racist BUT..." camp.

There were arguments to be made for leaving the EU, but by and large they weren't.

It became apparent after the Leave campaign won that their leaders had no real idea what to do, so I'm not sure they actually knew what the positives might be.

[Deleted]

Given the uptick in racist incidents involving poles no.

People use the term "immigration" to refer to refugee's without going against PC culture, actual immigrants get pissed off and start calling people out on it, people who are against "immigration" see people arguing against them, must be for refugees, incidents occur.

[Deleted]

love how you use the term racist against polish last time i checked polish isnt a race its a nationality, race = black,asian etc seriously racism is over used and alot of people dnt even know what it means

[Kalis]

People use the term "immigration" to refer to refugee's without going against PC culture, actual immigrants get pissed off and start calling people out on it, people who are against "immigration" see people arguing against them, must be for refugees, incidents occur.

UKIP primarily grew in popularity due to an anti-Eastern European immigrant (primarily Polish) stance.

Farage was always bringing the conversation around to them and away from Pakistanis and the like due to him targetting those concerned about job security for his voterbase. Nigel wanted votes from Pakistani communities.

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I don't understand it either. They've always been a thorn, and now they are just being annoying on purpose, especially since they are not even invoking the article. My patience for UK is atleast done for.

How can you not understand it? I spent 20 pages explaining it to you in terms that even a retarded toddler could grasp!

[Deleted]

I hope you guys leave the EU, because other countries might follow suit. Certain parts of the EU is good (all the trade stuff as an example) but I'm sick and tired of some fools overruling our laws. We are not the United States of Europe.. We are all different countries with different histories etc., it makes no sense trying to rule them all by the a shared set of laws.

[Deleted]

Met enough, saw enough to see there is a consensus about why they left and it was never well thought out or based on logic. It was emotional stupidity.

Translation = I met less than 1% of 52% and thus the entire 52% behave so

[Nigel Tufnel]

No because I saw pros & cons on both sides, couldn't decide so opted out. Don't like? Tough shit it's my fundamental right

It took me a while to decide how to cast my vote. But, for me, it came down to weighing up the pros & cons and deciding which way I'd vote based on the issues I thought were most important.

I'm not denying your right to abstain, it's just I don't understand how it was possible to end up being unable to make a choice.

I'm not trying to flame or antagonise you - I'm just genuinely interested.

Anyway, back to the OP. It's crystal clear that a Leave victory was very much unexpected and unplanned for. Cameron's promise to "trigger Article 50 immediately" was complete bollocks and May is taking the right approach in waiting despite pressure from Europe. However, I don't agree that May was or is "pro-Remain" and I think the end result of all this remains very unclear.

[Deleted]

seriously you really think a new PM is gonna not invoke atricle 50 its political and career suicide, most newspapers are full of shit anyway

[Azadina]

seriously you really think a new PM is gonna not invoke atricle 50 its political and career suicide, most newspapers are full of shit anyway

How is it not exactly that anyway? Do you think angry Brexiters will vote for her again, once they feel the sting in their wallets? Even when that's what they stupidly voted for?

[Deleted]

How is it not exactly that anyway? Do you think angry Brexiters will vote for her again, once they feel the sting in their wallets? Even when that's what they stupidly voted for?

youmean like the politcal and career suicide which is also rampant in the south of europe which is far worse than what the UK will go through after leaving

[Jodmos]

I'm still waiting to hear a reasonable argument for leaving.

The leave campaign won on two grounds - the 350million (a lie) and the fact they could manage immigration and still have full access to the EU market (also a lie). They expected to lose so hadn't thought of what may actually happen. The fact they backtracked on every issue they had within hours of the result tells you everything.

Teresa May has got the proverbial poison chalice.

The Govt that pulls the UK out of the EU is going to be unelectable as the Remain folks will hold it against them that they pulled out of EU and the leave folks will hold it against them that they couldn't get the deal on immigration. Plus those that have lost money due to it will hold it against them. Look what happened based on the result of the vote. Imagine what will happen if Article 50 is actually invoked. It will be like the Banking Crisis but totally self inflicted and the UK will be the worst affected by a huge degree.

People disliked the austerity caused by the Banking crisis and it was touted as a reason many people voted against the Govt in the referendum and leaving will just make that pointless as the govt will be debt ridden due to the weak pound.

We have higher immigration from outside the EU and they can manage that any way they want and it still hasn't worked (they won't be able to manage it afterwards either)

The access to the free market is just too important.

[Deleted]

@Jodmos we are leaving stop trying to fight an argument thats been over for a month

[Jodmos]

I didn't say we weren't.

I'm just pointing out that the Govt is screwed either way and staying will probably be less painful overall.

[Koyoti]

Do you think angry Brexiters will vote for her again, once they feel the sting in their wallets? Even when that's what they stupidly voted for?

Of course they will.
After all, the leavers won and any PM that actually has the guts to implement and guide the country though that will have their support for a long time to come.

[ranzino]

I didn't say we weren't.

I'm just pointing out that the Govt is screwed either way and staying will probably be less painful overall.

Of course it's the better solution. How adamant is UK to leave, bad consequences and all ? Brexit will hurt you, no illusions in Westminster hopefully.

[Nigel Tufnel]

@Jodmos we are leaving stop trying to fight an argument thats been over for a month

Personally, I think that's simplifying it too much. Yes, our relationship with Europe is going to change but exactly how has not been defined yet. That's just a straight forward fact. Cameron's promise to trigger Article 50 immediately has proven to be a lie. So, why do you hold so much faith in May following through?

[Koyoti]

The Govt that pulls the UK out of the EU is going to be unelectable as the Remain folks will hold it against them that they pulled out of EU and the leave folks will hold it against them that they couldn't get the deal on immigration.

It appears that they may get a deal on immigration, at least for a few years to start with

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...on-seven-years

(I know, I know it's The Guardian, but what the hell)

[Jodmos]

Not sure I could see that happening as it would need approval through the EU parliament and I doubt there would be enough will there as it would open a kettle of worms for other countries to threaten leaving to get benefits.

[Koyoti]

Not sure I could see that happening as it would need approval through the EU parliament and I doubt there would be enough will there as it would open a kettle of worms for other countries to threaten leaving to get benefits.

I think it shows that the EU rely on the UK in far more ways than they are willing to admit.
Quite what for for, I'm not sure (maybe defense and the close relationship with the US) it's not a can of worms I'd want to open.

But I doubt any other countries looking to leave would think they could get anything close to the same deal if they left.

[dribbles]

It appears that they may get a deal on immigration, at least for a few years to start with

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...on-seven-years

(I know, I know it's The Guardian, but what the hell)

Not acceptable, no deal. Only access to the single market and permanent non-negotiable control of our borders will do, moreso after the almost daily slaughter of innocent German and French people from uncontrolled immigration.

At a minimum soon we will achieve that as Europe capitulates, but it still is not enough. Also discussion on "the fee" that the EU charges for membership has to happen. Imagine yourself if you were a member of a gym and had to pay £100 a month in membership fees but your neighbour could access that same club for £10.

Quite rightly you would not be happy - so again no deal.

As Trump suggests that freeloading European countries back pay funds to the US, or up defense spending significantly, in order to guarantee their future security from that growling Russian bear, the question then arises of how much Europe should pay the UK. I am thinking of a figure around £350 million a week will just about do it - the alternative being that the whole of Europe relies on the French for security, we know from the past how well that works.

Under those circumstances it's the Polish and Baltic states I would feel sorry for.

Europe really is in a pickle.