[Movie] Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

[Mahourai]

So, according to this article, Synders Batman killed a total of 21 people, not including the people he killed during the dream scene.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/supercut-...123023317.html

Batman killing people is not unusual in film. Michael Keaton's Batman has no qualms about killing criminals, although it's usually played as dark comedy, like when he straps a bomb to a thug and smirks as he throws him off a ledge to his death.

More relevant is the Nolan Batman's perverse attitude towards killing - "I'm not going to kill you, but I don't have to save you (from this situation I engineered that will result in your death)". Bruce's attitude towards killing in those movies evolves from the League of Shadows test, where he refuses to execute the prisoner but then rebels and destroys their temple, assuredly killing many people including the man whose life he spared, to proclaiming some kind of moral lesson as he fights Ra's al Ghul long enough for him to die in the train accident, to when he finally just shoots at Talia's car until she crashes and dies but still refuses to actually just fucking shoot and kill her, even though there is clearly no moral difference.

In that film (Dark Knight Rises) Bruce is saved by the dreamlike happy ending where he carries a bomb out of town, then instead of dying in the explosion retires to a wife and kids. Affleck's Batman is a clear descendant of that character, without the cheap happy ending. He simply kept going and inevitably ended up at this point.

The article misleadingly refers to the Nolan Batman as "using ingenious methods to avoid killing", when what he's really doing is using ingenious reasoning to avoid admitting he's killed someone.

[Hammerfest]

I enjoyed the movie despite it's continued bleak look from MoS and Eisenberg's ridiculous version of Lex Luthor. It almost seems like he was trying to play him as Heath Ledger's Joker. Bryan Cranston would have been so much better. (Maybe he'll play Lex Luthor Sr. next time... one can only hope.) I liked that Wonder Woman's music was seemingly lifted from "300." I also liked Batman's voice modifier. The other thing I liked was the Holly Hunter character... particularly that she was a Democrat. (I've often thought that if superheroes actually started popping up, Democrats would be leading the charge against them.)

Hopefully, when Superman comes back from the dead, they'll take the opportunity to brighten his colors a bit. I'm just not a fan of the drab, bleak color pallet of these films. Works for Batman, but not much else.

[Mahourai]

I enjoyed the movie despite it's continued bleak look from MoS and Eisenberg's ridiculous version of Lex Luthor. It almost seems like he was trying to play him as Heath Ledger's Joker. Bryan Cranston would have been so much better. (Maybe he'll play Lex Luthor Sr. next time... one can only hope.)

I didn't watch the theatrical version but the director's cut made it pretty obvious Lex's father is dead, although I suppose he could appear in flashbacks.

Also, I loved Eisenberg's Lex. It was absolutely ridiculous, like a methed out demonic Bill Gates, and was exactly the tone the movie needed from him.

[Hammerfest]

I think the movie needed a more level-headed, in-control-of-himself Luthor like the Clancy Brown version. Eisenberg's Luthor was too zany... too much like a stereotypical Batman villain (which we've seen way too much of in movies already).

[Jotaux]

I think the movie needed a more level-headed, in-control-of-himself Luthor like the Clancy Brown version. Eisenberg's Luthor was too zany... too much like a Batman villain.

To be honest he played it more like the Joker than Lex Luthor.

[Hammerfest]

To be honest he played it more like the Joker than Lex Luthor.

Yeah, that's what I said...

I enjoyed the movie despite it's continued bleak look from MoS and Eisenberg's ridiculous version of Lex Luthor. It almost seems like he was trying to play him as Heath Ledger's Joker.

[RobertoCarlos]

Henry Cavills acting was also poor. He was like emo spider-man without the one liners

[Mahourai]

Cavill's serious, conflicted Superman is in no sense "emo", that's just a lame pejorative. Maybe he should have made a wisecrack after the Senate explosion to add some levity?

[RobertoCarlos]

Cavill's serious, conflicted Superman is in no sense "emo", that's just a lame pejorative. Maybe he should have made a wisecrack after the Senate explosion to add some levity?

So conflicted listening to Fox news babble on about how having a superman is good or bad for humanity and he just stares off into the background or does a blue steel with his glasses on. If my emo joke is lame, so is the counter argument he should make jokes after an explosion that killed a lot of people.

[Mahourai]

So conflicted listening to Fox news babble on about how having a superman is good or bad for humanity and he just stares off into the background or does a blue steel with his glasses on.

What scene, specifically, are you referring to? Because at no point in the movie do I recall Cavil doing any kind of wide-eyed, puckered-up stare into the camera.

[RobertoCarlos]

What scene, specifically, are you referring to? Because at no point in the movie do I recall Cavil doing any kind of wide-eyed, puckered-up stare into the camera.

minute 1.44-2.30

[pateuvasiliu]

Why do people keep blaming actors for Superman being sad and Luthor being a clown? This is what the writers wanted them to do. What, you think they just go on set and do whatever the fuck they want?

Use your heads.

Those are good actors, I assure you they are trained enough to know how to SMILE if they are ASKED to.

[Mahourai]

Cavill is perfectly capable of emoting, he just does so appropriately, instead of deciding to go sing karaoke in response to a CIA coup in the middle east or whatever.

[tehealadin]

Just watched the Ultimate edition. I feel that it enhanced the theatrical version, fleshing out more of the story. Still suffers from the same problem of trying to fit in too much, but I still liked it. Seen the trailer for Justice League, looks like they are going for more humour.

[eschatological]

IDK, I kind of like the pensive, reflective Superman. My impression of Superman growing up is that the dude must have felt really alone most of the time. He's pretty much a god living among flawed, sometimes worthless people, who he's dedicated his life to protecting even though they may not always deserve it.

[Jotaux]

IDK, I kind of like the pensive, reflective Superman. My impression of Superman growing up is that the dude must have felt really alone most of the time. He's pretty much a god living among flawed, sometimes worthless people, who he's dedicated his life to protecting even though they may not always deserve it.

Thats the thing about superman's personality, hes always been more Clark Kent than Superman. It isn't really till he moves away that he stars feeling lonely because hes always had Lana, Pete, and his parents.

[Svifnymr]

IDK, I kind of like the pensive, reflective Superman. My impression of Superman growing up is that the dude must have felt really alone most of the time. He's pretty much a god living among flawed, sometimes worthless people, who he's dedicated his life to protecting even though they may not always deserve it.

I think the biggest issue with the movies and Superman is that they portray that loneliness, rather than him growing up in a loving supportive environment with parents that taught him to do the right thing. The fact that Superman saves anyone when his parents basically tell him "fuck the world, do what you want, give in to the dark side!" is more incongruous than the comic Superman that had lots of friends, both in personal life and amongst superheros.

[eschatological]

That's kind of the post-public Superman, right? Lonely and detached? I'd say the whole arc of Superman and his romance with Lois Lane was trying to learn how to be attached and love someone while still maintaining the god-like knowledge to know he would see her and everyone he grew up with die. That's like the "main struggle" so to speak, of Superman. His friendship with other supers, even, is based on this idea that they all share this collective burden. Which is why, even on first viewing, I liked the whole idea of Batman hesitating when he found out Supes' mom was also named Martha. It made this cosmic fight against two beings trying to protect the world as best they could, and shrunk it down to its human elements.

I don't know much about Clark Kent before he was publically Superman except for what I know from the television version of Smallville, but I feel like the contention was always that he could have this private life full of people who supported him as long as he was working in secret, and no one knew who he was. As soon as people knew, he felt, for their safety, he had to separate himself from them.

[Svifnymr]

That's kind of the post-public Superman, right? Lonely and detached?

Well, I mean, he's still got his secret identity. In BvS, even Kent is a bit of a grumpy gus though, doesn't seem very happy at work.

I don't know much about Clark Kent before he was publically Superman except for what I know from the television version of Smallville, but I feel like the contention was always that he could have this private life full of people who supported him as long as he was working in secret, and no one knew who he was. As soon as people knew, he felt, for their safety, he had to separate himself from them.

It's the fault of the movies perhaps, again, but my problem is that if he's always a demigod isolated from humanity, I'd bet more on unabomber/ villain than boyscout. Maybe he could grow up with friends and lose them as he becomes Superman, sure. Maybe it'd change him too, but the movie doesn't show friends or anything. It shows a father who dies because letting Clark rescue the dog would have been bad. Martha who suggests that he doesn't owe the world anything, so f'em. It's like Uncle Ben turning to Spiderman on his death bed and saying "you must avenge me, kill all the muggers!" or something.

I liked the Martha thing well enough, I see the point. The most hilarious part of it to me though is how many DC fans never realized the "coincidence" over all the years.

[Deleted]

Well, I mean, he's still got his secret identity. In BvS, even Kent is a bit of a grumpy gus though, doesn't seem very happy at work.

In fairness i'd be pissed off as well if I was Superman, and they keep focusing on Clark Kent being a reporter instead of me fighting Batman.