[Beta] Havoc Discussion

[enchiridion]

The top Sim spec atm is:

t1 Fel Mastery
t2 Demon Blades
t3 Bloodlet
t5 Momentum
t6 Master of the Glaive
t7 Fel barrage/Chaos Blades

Though I will not play that, at least while leveling.

I'm going for the standard Momentum Build (Felblade + Prepared). maybe Demonic at 110, since for World Questing, having a "short" CD Meta helps a lot with the sustain.

yeah no one recommends leveling that way, without Demon's bite, leveling would be a pain. Though i dont think i would consider felblade and prepared the "standard" momentum build, as bloodlet is so far ahead of felblade. the other option to using demonic is going veng for world quests, you really dont need anything in your artifact to live

[Shirofune]

yeah no one recommends leveling that way, without Demon's bite, leveling would be a pain. Though i dont think i would consider felblade and prepared the "standard" momentum build, as bloodlet is so far ahead of felblade. the other option to using demonic is going veng for world quests, you really dont need anything in your artifact to live

Those are the talents the synergice the most, at least for me. The time I spent in beta I loved VR + Felblade (same GCD) and I had 200 MS. That has to feel awesome in live with 40-50 MS. It made Momentum lovely for leveling, since I was Fel Rushing into an enemy, and I didn't have any issues keeping the buff up.

And yeah, I won't take Demon Blades even when raiding Mythic. I hate it. I hate classes that are not GCD locked, they're boring for me. Also, I'm certain that Blizzard will keep nerfing it if it is still superior to Demon's Bite (or buff Demon's Bite)

[enchiridion]

Those are the talents the synergice the most, at least for me. The time I spent in beta I loved VR + Felblade (same GCD) and I had 200 MS. That has to feel awesome in live with 40-50 MS. It made Momentum lovely for leveling, since I was Fel Rushing into an enemy, and I didn't have any issues keeping the buff up.

And yeah, I won't take Demon Blades even when raiding Mythic. I hate it. I hate classes that are not GCD locked, they're boring for me. Also, I'm certain that Blizzard will keep nerfing it if it is still superior to Demon's Bite (or buff Demon's Bite)

Thats fine, but calling it the "standard" build can get confusing to some people who may think its the one that performs the best, wouldn't really be an issue except theres a large difference in how you plan your FR/VRs with and without felblade, and without takes some practice.

Edit: Obviously your build should suit the fight if you are looking to optimize but thats a whole other discussion.

[Mamut]

Except meta (and ofc artifact ability) we dont have ANY dps cooldowns right? Im missing some CDs management for burn phases. Still undecided between warrior and dh and theres not much time to decide

[Kovan]

what? Demon blade is that good?
i never bothered since i tought that it was usless .__.

just tried it and it seems good indeed

[enchiridion]

what? Demon blade is that good?
i never bothered since i tought that it was usless .__.

just tried it and it seems good indeed

Yeah, it may change again (they have already nerfed it) they have expressed dislike of having an ability that encourages a passive playstyle so just keep an eye out.

[Kovan]

Yeah, it may change again (they have already nerfed it) they have expressed dislike of having an ability that encourages a passive playstyle so just keep an eye out.

yep, that's exactly what i was thinking.
how can a passive be more competitive then an active skill, havoc has already a poor toolkit..
we will see
also having that talent makes the rotation even more clunky, i love spamming skill

[Mamut]

Anyone tested Fel Eruption? This hits like a truck against bosses, even with so long cd it was top dmg on one of the DH who was with me in dungeon.

[enchiridion]

Anyone tested Fel Eruption? This hits like a truck against bosses, even with so long cd it was top dmg on one of the DH who was with me in dungeon.

Very underwhelming when compared to the other two, momentum offers ON DEMAND 20% increase and Nem offers 20% increase for 50% of the fight- so in order for FE to stand up to the other two you would have to take all the damage FE does over a fight and that would have to be equal to all the extra damage you get over the course of a fight from Momentum and nem....which it just cant do without being ludicrously strong.

[Zeeket]

Very underwhelming when compared to the other two, momentum offers ON DEMAND 20% increase and Nem offers 20% increase for 50% of the fight- so in order for FE to stand up to the other two you would have to take all the damage FE does over a fight and that would have to be equal to all the extra damage you get over the course of a fight from Momentum and nem....which it just cant do without being ludicrously strong.

That tier sims almost identically on pure single target, so if you feel like tasking Fel Eruption for a boss that has literally no bosses then you'll be doing practically the same dps as momentum or nem, where nem and more specifically momentum shines is when there is more than 1 target, be it cleave, adds, hell even just a second target for a small amount of time.

[enchiridion]

That tier sims almost identically on pure single target, so if you feel like tasking Fel Eruption for a boss that has literally no bosses then you'll be doing practically the same dps as momentum or nem, where nem and more specifically momentum shines is when there is more than 1 target, be it cleave, adds, hell even just a second target for a small amount of time.

depends on your perspective- its a 4% difference from momentum (on a large target which most bosses are) and thats actually significant-now, that is a patchwerk fight, but when you figure how many fights have a multi-target aspect + the amount that have a damage increase phase, the other two will have more opportunities to pull ahead if used properly. So in the interest of answering a question about its performance overall i think it is rather underwhelming, though, it does have range going for it, which is def something to consider, but most of the time that will be edged out by the other 2 options.

[ChakanDH]

depends on your perspective- its a 4% difference from momentum (on a large target which most bosses are) and thats actually significant-now, that is a patchwerk fight, but when you figure how many fights have a multi-target aspect + the amount that have a damage increase phase, the other two will have more opportunities to pull ahead if used properly. So in the interest of answering a question about its performance overall i think it is rather underwhelming, though, it does have range going for it, which is def something to consider, but most of the time that will be edged out by the other 2 options.

While what you're saying is correct, these all go off of perfect play. You could arguably say it's easier to get fel eruption off every 35 secs that keeping your momentum buff at the equivalent uptime. Also it's a massive nuke, ideal for a priority (unstunable) add that needs to die quickly. Also there may be times where you need to stack or can't reliably use momentum due to death mechanics, eruption won't suffer from this.

I'm not saying it's equal or anything, but it's not a bad alternative if you don't want to use the other two options.

[enchiridion]

While what you're saying is correct, these all go off of perfect play. You could arguably say it's easier to get fel eruption off every 35 secs that keeping your momentum buff at the equivalent uptime. Also it's a massive nuke, ideal for a priority (unstunable) add that needs to die quickly. Also there may be times where you need to stack or can't reliably use momentum due to death mechanics, eruption won't suffer from this.

I'm not saying it's equal or anything, but it's not a bad alternative if you don't want to use the other two options.

The on-demand part of momentum is the main reason it pulls ahead in these situations, it doesnt require any condition on the add, it would be VERY unlikely you wouldnt have it available and can be used for aoe or single target damage, Nem allows that damage to be carried on to other enemies when momentum cant be used. I dont believe there would be any situation that would rule out both other talents, as that would pretty much have to be done intentionally for DH and its unrealistic to think they would tune something down as specific as that.

[Ryxxi]

So how is the ranking of Artifact perks ? I went with Inner demons first and anguish at rank 16. Probably going to skip overwhelming power. I didn't really find unleashed demons, demon speed and illidari knowledge that interesting compared to the left side perks which give you more damage over all. 1min less CD on Meta still means that you can only use it once per boss in a 6-7min fight..

[Mefistophelis]

Well, right now in Beta I'm at 840 ilvl and have finished order hall campaign. And I've found my comfort zone in this spec and perform really well:
Fel Mastery
Prepared
Felblade
Momentum
Unleashed Power
Fel Barrage

I wonder if it is not too far behind the top sim spec because I like how it plays.

[Lillpapps]

So how is the ranking of Artifact perks ? I went with Inner demons first and anguish at rank 16. Probably going to skip overwhelming power. I didn't really find unleashed demons, demon speed and illidari knowledge that interesting compared to the left side perks which give you more damage over all. 1min less CD on Meta still means that you can only use it once per boss in a 6-7min fight..

This is what the theorycrafters say is the most optimal path of progression. I personally will go the 5th path over the 4th.

[enchiridion]

Well, right now in Beta I'm at 840 ilvl and have finished order hall campaign. And I've found my comfort zone in this spec and perform really well:
Fel Mastery
Prepared
Felblade
Momentum
Unleashed Power
Fel Barrage

I wonder if it is not too far behind the top sim spec because I like how it plays.

DB isnt terribly far ahead of prepared, but bloodlet is pretty far ahead of felblade, and that puts MotG higher too (in a fairly roundabout way), so not too far off, but bloodlet missing will make a difference.

This is what the theorycrafters say is the "most optimal" path of progression. I personally will go the 5th path over the 4th.

Damn you beat me to it! but the 4th is a main target damage, and as for the 5th thats not really gonna provide you with much of a damage increase, Feast is mostly an aoe increase, and the dodge talent should rarely ever be procced in a raid scenario (as you should be in raid by that time) and inner demons can miss if your target is moved out of its range.

[Lillpapps]

Damn you beat me to it! but the 4th is a main target damage, and as for the 5th thats not really gonna provide you with much of a damage increase, Feast is mostly an aoe increase, and the dodge talent should rarely ever be procced in a raid scenario (as you should be in raid by that time) and inner demons can miss if your target is moved out of its range.

I won't be raiding but spend my time in m+. I don't value more fury that highly because I won't be running momentum or demonic if nemesis is competitive. Stun will be used on every pack making Feast better (planning to take one value point in Overwhelming power). Again, this is why I personally will go this route, I value Feast and Inner Demons higher than more fury and demon's bite damage. If you raid then 4 is probably stronger than 5.

[enchiridion]

I won't be raiding but spend my time in m+. I don't value more fury that highly because I won't be running momentum or demonic if nemesis is competitive. Stun will be used on every pack making Feast better (planning to take one value point in Overwhelming power). Again, this is why I personally will go this route, I value Feast and Inner Demons higher than more fury and demon's bite damage. If you raid then 4 is probably stronger than 5.

similar to what i said before, to each their own but if you are doing something that is different from the optimal and post it here, it helps a lot to say WHY so people can apply that (or not) to their own knowledge, rather than just being more confused, not getting on your case just, when people ask for help its not good to leave them with more questions.

Edit: i only say this because non-raiders are a minority on sites like this, as they generally attract a lot of raiders (this is not representative of the game itself) and pvp threads are generally distinguished, your info is FANTASTIC for those doing the same as you and im glad its there, just being specific can help clear up your audience.

[Lillpapps]

similar to what i said before, to each their own but if you are doing something that is different from the optimal and post it here, it helps a lot to say WHY so people can apply that (or not) to their own knowledge, rather than just being more confused, not getting on your case just, when people ask for help its not good to leave them with more questions.

I said the thing I posted was the most optimal one and that I was going to go another route. Which means my route is not the optimal one. If someone want to know why I personally would go that route they could just ask. Similar to what you did.