[BREWMASTER] 7.X Discussion Thread

[arcuro]

The way I've used it throughout the alpha and beta is to use it only when the pulls are massive enough to kill you in 1-2 rounds of attacks (5-packs in high Mythic) or when you're sub 50% health.

If you're stacking a monster Ironskin buff, you're not going to have enough brews left to purify effectively and you'll end up as a huge mana sink. You'll quickly reach a point where your stagger dot becomes so huge that you'll purify and still be in red stagger.

It's closer to a Shield Block intent than a Shuffle intent right now.

so i either sit at my brews or purify every now and than and ISB when i feel i need it? is this even true with Black Ox Brew and High Tolerance?

would be nice if some guides would point out how to use your Brews with different talent combinations

[keqe]

so i either sit at my brews or purify every now and than and ISB when i feel i need it? is this even true with Black Ox Brew and High Tolerance?

would be nice if some guides would point out how to use your Brews with different talent combinations

I might be better to sit on 3 brews instead of using one for IsB for sake of not wasting them in some situations. If you use IsB to not waste it, you delay damage you didn't really care about 6-8s to the future. So 6-8s later you start taking more heavy damage because you have stagger and "regular" attacks coming now. So you might be forced to purify or IsB again.

[Leblue]

To note about the "GCD" capped thing, a huge strength of the Brewmaster strength (this isn't so much one for those who liked the spammy feel of Tiger Palm in WoD and MoP) is that the spec's APM (Actions Per Minute) is highly customizable. Haste also has a massive effect on how active the spec is but you can still clear/free up GCDs if you feel like the spec is too fast or add abilities if you think the spec is too slow. The big thing about Brewmaster is the focus is on managing multiple minor cd abilities along with the energy bar.

Also, if you're actively tanking its pretty much 99% of the time better to at least have a brew recharging because even with 10 ~ 20% haste (a lot of people will be aiming for around 30) brew recharge times are pretty fast as is. Even if you don't purify often to decrease overall damage, you're still making the damage easier to heal or more efficient to heal which may free a more HoT heavy healer like a druid to do other things like heal special dps or even do damage if they're so inclined.

[Inuyaki]

Also, if you've only got Fortifying Brew up for every other boss, you're playing things wrong. It's reduced by Keg Smash and Tiger Palm to be the same CD as it was before.

Not true...
It was 3min before and is now at 4-5min (or even more with downtimes).

PS yeah I know, it has the same CD as in early beta where the CD was already 5min... I don't think that helps though if you talk with people who most likely didn't play beta

- - - Updated - - -

I might be better to sit on 3 brews instead of using one for IsB for sake of not wasting them in some situations. If you use IsB to not waste it, you delay damage you didn't really care about 6-8s to the future. So 6-8s later you start taking more heavy damage because you have stagger and "regular" attacks coming now. So you might be forced to purify or IsB again.

I agree with LeBlue here... Don't waste your recharge time. Also you can technically use them when not tanking, to build up some ISB duration, because you get the charges faster than the duration is (with 7.5sec duration in beta at least, I don't think you can do this in WoD tbh without the trait)

[Deleted]

Not true...
It was 3min before and is now at 4-5min (or even more with downtimes).

PS yeah I know, it has the same CD as in early beta where the CD was already 5min... I don't think that helps though if you talk with people who most likely didn't play beta

I tested it on the garrison dummy yesterday with 20% haste and I actually got the cooldown down to 3 minutes and 10 seconds with Blackout Combo.

I know we wont always have 100% uptime on the Boss but if you are playing defensively and always use BoC with Keg Smash we should be able to use Fortifying Brew every 3-4 minutes

[Hobbs]

I tested it on the garrison dummy yesterday with 20% haste and I actually got the cooldown down to 3 minutes and 10 seconds with Blackout Combo.

I know we wont always have 100% uptime on the Boss but if you are playing defensively and always use BoC with Keg Smash we should be able to use Fortifying Brew every 3-4 minutes

You're 100% right, but earlier we were speaking specifically related to dungeons. I think Inuyaki was trying to remind Stross that for me (who was arguing with Stross and has not been in beta) the cd would be much longer than it was before prepatch in dungeons. When Stross mentioned "every other boss," it was because I initially said I was doing some dungeons now and FB wouldn't be up every boss sometimes and certainly not every boss attempt if we wiped.

[Tech614]

Not true...
It was 3min before and is now at 4-5min (or even more with downtimes).

PS yeah I know, it has the same CD as in early beta where the CD was already 5min... I don't think that helps though if you talk with people who most likely didn't play beta

Every tank's shield wall equiv was changed to 5 mins and every tank had their personal CDs nerfed in general. This is not a monk specific issue and as it stands right now you can get FB down to a 4 min cd or even lower if it's a low down time fight which is faster then other shield wall equivalents.

[Ampere]

The spec is actually a lot better than it was initially in beta. Expel Harm does wonders for visually chaotic situations where I can't see any orbs. Artifact traits that make Blackout Strike and Breath of Fire actually have defensive benefit make pretty much every skill worth using.

I'm not liking the gameplay of RJW on single target, and it's kind of annoying to need those tomes to swap on every single target fight. I hate the talent swapping change. This is more of a criticism of the general game than the Monk class. Also the camera change has been bothering me more than I thought, some bosses are hard to see around.

Noticed something about our Mastery that made me laugh:

My dps seems super low compared to 6.x. What am I doing wrong? I keg smash on cooldown, try to tigerpalm, BoF and BOS accordingly. But the dps numbers are very much behind my co-tank who is a paladin. Granted hes about 6 ilvls above me but still the gap was never that wide before.

Our damage is lacking right now. Compare yourself to other Brewmasters on warcraftlogs, not a tank of another class.

Things should be better at 110, and if they aren't we'll probably see some number tuning.

[stross01]

You're 100% right, but earlier we were speaking specifically related to dungeons. I think Inuyaki was trying to remind Stross that for me (who was arguing with Stross and has not been in beta) the cd would be much longer than it was before prepatch in dungeons. When Stross mentioned "every other boss," it was because I initially said I was doing some dungeons now and FB wouldn't be up every boss sometimes and certainly not every boss attempt if we wiped.

It'd take a pretty casual group to stop pulling long enough to make a difference of that size.

[Azaranth]

Generally speaking, I'm a fan of ability pruning. I enjoyed freeing up a few keybinds, and I'm massively in favor of better designing classes to fit their core fantasy. In that light, I think the Brewmaster changes are a serious improvement (thematically, I mean. I have no comment on balance; I haven't played it at 110 yet).

The one ability that I really miss is Dizzying Haze. Not only was keg tossing appropriate for a Brewmaster thematically, but I really miss it on a mechanical level. Since it's removal, I've absolutely hated pulling groups (Step 1: Crackling Jade Lightning. Step 2: Turn on Rushing Jade Wind. Step 3: Hope you pick up adds before some melee goes ham with AOES), and I've found the absence of Dizzying Haze to be more frustrating than any other change.

The ranged, damage free, threat builder was, IMO, one of our greatest tools. We used it extensively to do achievements, in challenge modes, and so forth. I think we're really going to miss having it in Legion.

[Tech614]

Generally speaking, I'm a fan of ability pruning. I enjoyed freeing up a few keybinds, and I'm massively in favor of better designing classes to fit their core fantasy. In that light, I think the Brewmaster changes are a serious improvement (thematically, I mean. I have no comment on balance; I haven't played it at 110 yet).

The one ability that I really miss is Dizzying Haze. Not only was keg tossing appropriate for a Brewmaster thematically, but I really miss it on a mechanical level. Since it's removal, I've absolutely hated pulling groups (Step 1: Crackling Jade Lightning. Step 2: Turn on Rushing Jade Wind. Step 3: Hope you pick up adds before some melee goes ham with AOES), and I've found the absence of Dizzying Haze to be more frustrating than any other change.

The ranged, damage free, threat builder was, IMO, one of our greatest tools. We used it extensively to do achievements, in challenge modes, and so forth. I think we're really going to miss having it in Legion.

Dizzying Haze was too good. Nearly free, spammable ranged threat with a slow with the only downside being travel time.

Personally I'm glad it's gone. That means we never end up with a Tortos or Garrosh situation ever again.

[Azaranth]

Dizzying Haze was too good. Nearly free, spammable ranged threat with a slow with the only downside being travel time.

Personally I'm glad it's gone. That means we never end up with a Tortos or Garrosh situation ever again.

There do exist middle-ground fixes that would have given us a ranged threat tool without it being abusable.

[Deleted]

Dizzying haze (or drunken haze) was one of the most thematic abilities from warcraft 3. I find it really odd that they removed it instead of changing it if they felt it was problematic

[Ahsakura]

Dizzying haze (or drunken haze) was one of the most thematic abilities from warcraft 3. I find it really odd that they removed it instead of changing it if they felt it was problematic

I feel like Blizz really missed the mark with trying to make Brewmasters "drunken brawlers" with the changes in Legion so I'm not really surprised...

[Hobbs]

I feel like Blizz really missed the mark with trying to make Brewmasters "drunken brawlers" with the changes in Legion so I'm not really surprised...

I agree. I still don't get how dodge fits the theme of a drunken brawler. Drunks are slower and less agile than a sober fighter. Stagger makes a ton of sense since drunkenness dulls the senses and you feel the effects later, but I don't get the point of our mastery. Dodge doesn't seem to fit any better than it did on bears.

It'd take a pretty casual group to stop pulling long enough to make a difference of that size.

Not only is your statement condescending and pointless, it's logically incorrect as well. Stopping for 1-2 minutes in between each pull for a tea break would HELP the cd come back up before the next boss/attempt. The problem for a longer cd in dungeons is the short fights combined with running in between to the next pulls and a long base cd. But at this point it's obvious that no matter what I say, you're bent on misinterpreting, misunderstanding, and bashing it. Excited to see the next installment.

[stross01]

Not only is your statement condescending and pointless, it's logically incorrect as well. Stopping for 1-2 minutes in between each pull for a tea break would HELP the cd come back up before the next boss/attempt. The problem for a longer cd in dungeons is the short fights combined with running in between to the next pulls and a long base cd. But at this point it's obvious that no matter what I say, you're bent on misinterpreting, misunderstanding, and bashing it. Excited to see the next installment.

Cool.

Just because you don't like it doesn't make it wrong. After hundreds of hours on the beta, I'd accept my logic over yours. If you're waiting for more than 5-8 seconds between pulls, something is wrong with some aspect of your group. Your healer is overhealing, your dps is low, or your tanking needs improvement.

Fortifying Brew is fine as it is.

[Tenant]

Dizzying haze (or drunken haze) was one of the most thematic abilities from warcraft 3. I find it really odd that they removed it instead of changing it if they felt it was problematic

I feel like Blizz's logic was that Keg Smash would fulfill that thematic niche by itself. At least that's the impression I got when I found that Keg Smash's base range was increased.

I do agree though, tossing around kegs everywhere was fun, and I'm still not entirely sure how I should be pulling packs

I agree. I still don't get how dodge fits the theme of a drunken brawler. Drunks are slower and less agile than a sober fighter. Stagger makes a ton of sense since drunkenness dulls the senses and you feel the effects later, but I don't get the point of our mastery. Dodge doesn't seem to fit any better than it did on bears.

I think it fits pretty well. I'm no expert on it, but I figure it's an obvious homage to that drunken style kung fu; you mask the root of your fighting with unpredictable, drunk-like movement. In a Brewmaster's case they're using those unpredictable movements to make themselves harder to hit, confusing opponents by swaying and teetering around their attacks. It's also always how I saw how their Blackout Kick gave increased parry as well before pre-patch; they're effortlessly tricking enemies and countering their attacks by acting like a drunk (even though they might literally be drunk). They're not just drunks, they're martial artists; you say they'd be less agile, but I'd say they're in perfect control of their drunkenness to actually be very agile.

[Ahsakura]

I agree. I still don't get how dodge fits the theme of a drunken brawler. Drunks are slower and less agile than a sober fighter. Stagger makes a ton of sense since drunkenness dulls the senses and you feel the effects later, but I don't get the point of our mastery. Dodge doesn't seem to fit any better than it did on bears.

I think it fits pretty well. I'm no expert on it, but I figure it's an obvious homage to that drunken style kung fu; you mask the root of your fighting with unpredictable, drunk-like movement. In a Brewmaster's case they're using those unpredictable movements to make themselves harder to hit, confusing opponents by swaying and teetering around their attacks. It's also always how I saw how their Blackout Kick gave increased parry as well before pre-patch; they're effortlessly tricking enemies and countering their attacks by acting like a drunk (even though they might literally be drunk). They're not just drunks, they're martial artists; you say they'd be less agile, but I'd say they're in perfect control of their drunkenness to actually be very agile.

This was more of less what I was going to say. I think they could have done more with the brews though. I do think dodge makes perfect sense thematically.

[redfella]

I only tanked M Mannoroth on last farm and sat out the rest tweaking my DK WeakAuras since I just couldn't bear to play this spec any more than I had to in it's current state. Hopefully the artifact traits change game play to a more interesting direction.

Mitigation-wise it was boring as fuck, I only once dropped dangerously low, eating all 3 hits from Empowered Glaive-Combo while suffering from Gripping Shadows so my health actually dipped from hugging the wall during stun and not the combo itself. The only "tank-play" I considered having done was taunting the boss at the right time and making sure I hit an extra ISB for the AM buff just before a combo. Making sure I didn't cap charges was far from interesting and I think I saw red stagger rise high enough to be a problem a total of three times (so 3 purifies).

Not having CE or at least even Dizzying Haze for ranged pulling on trash is beyond retarded as well. I guess we had that coming though.

TL;DR; Theme and animations improved, so guess we got our #classfantasy fixed, but the game play sure does feel boring at best, at least for now.

[arcuro]

Attantion: Dont use for competitive raiding unless someone with more reputation and knowlage than me confirms! its just for trolling and fun!



i find it quite hilarious how you can play WW (look at the post in this forum) and BrM basicly with a 1 Button macro on easy content or farm bosses.. or just to troll (well have to press ISB, PB sometimes)

after smashing the dummies for like 15 minutes to get used to the new skills and to train my fingers, i noticed my skilles line up really nice and i was hitting them in a certin rhythm

just make a castsequence macro chaining BoS > KS > TP > BoS > BoF > TP > BoS > KS > TP > BoS > TP > RJW.
With > 20% hast the CDs end Energy using line up quite nicely (well have to wait like .5 sconds wait for 2nd KS)
works nice if you dont need to push yourself or need to time any skills (KS, RJW for add pickup or anything else). and since ISB and PB are off CD you can weave it in to use Blackout Combo for KS > BoF combo or better ISB. Only thing what is mandatory is BoS into BoF to reduce CD enough
You can even exchange RJW with TP to have more control

Well obviously that is not the way how you should tank, but for trolling its nice

it will get even better with the legion legendary which resets BoF after every KS. cant wait for this nonsence XD