Blood 7.0 Pre Patch Mini-Guide

[RagnorZ]

I have a question for you, Trox. At 742 ilv, enchanting and gemming all haste, my haste is about 21%. With this, I'm feeling very GCD locked. What do you think the magic haste number is? If I wanted to dial it back, would it then be a tradeoff between crit for dmg and mastery for survivability?

Thanks

Haste lowers the gcd for DK now so........... the hard cap is 100% haste for 0.75s gcd.

Presumably you are asking is more x haste is always more damage than x something else, probably best to sim stat weights for blood dps for that.

[Kreatcher]

Yeah, I mean I can't seem to spend my runes fast enough and that some are going to waste. It's not all the time, but I know some times there is a target for haste and wasn't sure if it was the case for current blood dks.

[Troxism]

You won't ever be GCD locked so if you are, you aren't hitting buttons fast enough most likely.

[dubious_doomhammer]

Is Purgatory really the go to talent over Blood Mirror?

With Purgatory you'll still die if you don't receive enough heals ... Blood mirror has a 1 min shorter CD and its a flat 20% damage reduction.

Also, foul bulwark is max 10% health vs rune tap which gives 25% damage reduction for 3 seconds for big hits (which also has 2 charges)

[Philondra]

Rune Tap suffers from several problems compared to 6.2, not all of which are immediately apparent.

First, there is the obvious: it gives 15% less damage reduction.
Second, in 6.2 it meant you had one less Blood Boil, a spell that didn't hit for much and generated 10 Runic Power. Now it means you have one less Heart Strike, a spell that hits relatively hard and generates 15+ (in reality, 18+) Runic Power.
Third, the opportunity cost of Rune Tap was lower. Replacing a Blood Boil did not have an adverse affect on your survivability because Death Strike didn't care about Blood Runes. Now that Death Strike costs Runic Power, each Rune Tap means slightly fewer Death Strikes. Additionally, saving one Blood Rune for Rune Tap was easy; however, if you need to generate Bone Shield charges *right now*, you may be left without a rune to use Rune Tap when you really need it.

Compare this to Foul Bulwark, whose benefit is reliable because it's always on.

[dubious_doomhammer]

Rune Tap suffers from several problems compared to 6.2, not all of which are immediately apparent.

First, there is the obvious: it gives 15% less damage reduction.
Second, in 6.2 it meant you had one less Blood Boil, a spell that didn't hit for much and generated 10 Runic Power. Now it means you have one less Heart Strike, a spell that hits relatively hard and generates 15+ (in reality, 18+) Runic Power.
Third, the opportunity cost of Rune Tap was lower. Replacing a Blood Boil did not have an adverse affect on your survivability because Death Strike didn't care about Blood Runes. Now that Death Strike costs Runic Power, each Rune Tap means slightly fewer Death Strikes. Additionally, saving one Blood Rune for Rune Tap was easy; however, if you need to generate Bone Shield charges *right now*, you may be left without a rune to use Rune Tap when you really need it.

Compare this to Foul Bulwark, whose benefit is reliable because it's always on.

That makes sense. What about Purgatory vs Blood Mirror?

[Grimnarthoros]

From what I can tell from testing and the tooltip on Blood Mirror, it doesn't mitigate any damage you take, it just deals 20% of the damage received back to its source.

While it could be a slight DPS increase, it doesn't help survivability much at all.

[dubious_doomhammer]

From what I can tell from testing and the tooltip on Blood Mirror, it doesn't mitigate any damage you take, it just deals 20% of the damage received back to its source.

While it could be a slight DPS increase, it doesn't help survivability much at all.

Just tested Blood Mirror, combat log shows 20% being absorbed, then redirected to attacker. So Blood Mirror is a 20% damage reduction CD that also does some damage.

[Dracodraco]

Is Purgatory really the go to talent over Blood Mirror?

With Purgatory you'll still die if you don't receive enough heals ... Blood mirror has a 1 min shorter CD and its a flat 20% damage reduction.

Also, foul bulwark is max 10% health vs rune tap which gives 25% damage reduction for 3 seconds for big hits (which also has 2 charges)

Along with Philondra's response, keep in mind Foul Bulwark is a *minimum* of 10% health - you need atleast 5 stacks for Ossu, but you can have up to 10, for a 20% effective health increase. Rune Tap gives a 25% effective health increase (because it gives a 25% damage reduction). So with all of the drawbacks of Rune Tap (however much I might like it), the passive bonus from Foul Boulwark can *almost* match Rune Tap's EH boost - full time.

It's not optimal (for the same reasons as Rune tap - more RP on DS is better than a little extra EH from doing more marrowrending), but in a worst case scenario, hitting marrowrend an extra time will actually work as a mini-last stand, popping you up 6% HP.

[dubious_doomhammer]

Along with Philondra's response, keep in mind Foul Bulwark is a *minimum* of 10% health - you need atleast 5 stacks for Ossu, but you can have up to 10, for a 20% effective health increase. Rune Tap gives a 25% effective health increase (because it gives a 25% damage reduction). So with all of the drawbacks of Rune Tap (however much I might like it), the passive bonus from Foul Boulwark can *almost* match Rune Tap's EH boost - full time.

It's not optimal (for the same reasons as Rune tap - more RP on DS is better than a little extra EH from doing more marrowrending), but in a worst case scenario, hitting marrowrend an extra time will actually work as a mini-last stand, popping you up 6% HP.

Yeah, I didn't realize that it had a rune cost attached - could have swore rune tap didn't consume a rune before.

[psyquest]

I have taken my dk on few tests as blood. I must say I am really surprised but the class feel too simple and missing something (may be artefact related?)

I also feel we lack a big Oh shit cooldown. Let me explain before you jump and say foul bulwark. All of our abilities that reduce damage require a set up. If ever we are low on health with no boneshield and no runic power, it feels rather hairy. You might go vampiric blood, you gain a gain of 30% health + healing bonus but then you are still in danger I feel.

I think I am missing something big. Can someone enlighten me please with this scenario:
you are low on health, no boneshield, no runic power.
Whats you "oh shit" getting out of a sticky situation decisions?

[Narshe]

I have taken my dk on few tests as blood. I must say I am really surprised but the class feel too simple and missing something (may be artefact related?)

I also feel we lack a big Oh shit cooldown. Let me explain before you jump and say foul bulwark. All of our abilities that reduce damage require a set up. If ever we are low on health with no boneshield and no runic power, it feels rather hairy. You might go vampiric blood, you gain a gain of 30% health + healing bonus but then you are still in danger I feel.

I think I am missing something big. Can someone enlighten me please with this scenario:
you are low on health, no boneshield, no runic power.
Whats you "oh shit" getting out of a sticky situation decisions?

Your healer. All tanks are reliant on a healer now.

And yes, being 110 for all specs and classes feels more rounded out as far as rotations with having the artifact weapon and traits unlocked.

[Jellospally]

I have taken my dk on few tests as blood. I must say I am really surprised but the class feel too simple and missing something (may be artefact related?)

I also feel we lack a big Oh shit cooldown. Let me explain before you jump and say foul bulwark. All of our abilities that reduce damage require a set up. If ever we are low on health with no boneshield and no runic power, it feels rather hairy. You might go vampiric blood, you gain a gain of 30% health + healing bonus but then you are still in danger I feel.

I think I am missing something big. Can someone enlighten me please with this scenario:
you are low on health, no boneshield, no runic power.
Whats you "oh shit" getting out of a sticky situation decisions?

You are never in "you are low on health, no boneshield, no runic power." if you are you played incorrectly. You NEVER drop under 5 BS stacks. You ALWAYS marrowrend at 5-6 stacks(never above 6 or you waste potential stacks with the artifact.

RP could potentially actually happen, but that would be in a case you literally had to DS every other hit or something which, based on testing, never happens.

You really don't need an oh shit button as this class. We have so much HP we have wiggle room to take hits like that and heal it off.

- - - Updated - - -

That makes sense. What about Purgatory vs Blood Mirror?

Blood Mirrors CD is so long it doesn't do anything. Unless it got its CD cut in half or its DR doubled purgatory is just a safer option.

The way blood plays atm blood mirror does nothing but give you some dps. Purg/cheat deaths in general are very strong for progression/harder content in general. We can easily heal ourselves out of purg whenever it procs as it is in legion.

I just don't think people value cheat deaths highly enough to realize how fucking strong Purg is compared to Blood Mirror which is less than 2% DR throughout a fight(ps most fights aren't super bursty anyway so overall DR matters) and if used wrong its a 4m cd which just makes it worse than Purg even if Purg doesn't proc all fight.

[Chalaska]

You are never in "you are low on health, no boneshield, no runic power." if you are you played incorrectly. You NEVER drop under 5 BS stacks. You ALWAYS marrowrend at 5-6 stacks(never above 6 or you waste potential stacks with the artifact.

This is pretty much exactly what every blood dk with weak healers should be doing. Following this I was able to get top 5 blood dk survivability. Mind you I had to use tanking trinkets because I kept getting trucked by death brand

I almost never let my stacks drop below 5. I'd post a link if I could, but I have only posted a few times. Dolcè on thrall.

[dubious_doomhammer]

Blood Mirrors CD is so long it doesn't do anything. Unless it got its CD cut in half or its DR doubled purgatory is just a safer option.

The way blood plays atm blood mirror does nothing but give you some dps. Purg/cheat deaths in general are very strong for progression/harder content in general. We can easily heal ourselves out of purg whenever it procs as it is in legion.

I just don't think people value cheat deaths highly enough to realize how fucking strong Purg is compared to Blood Mirror which is less than 2% DR throughout a fight(ps most fights aren't super bursty anyway so overall DR matters) and if used wrong its a 4m cd which just makes it worse than Purg even if Purg doesn't proc all fight.

Blood Mirror is a 2min CD, 20% damage reduction. Purgatory is 3min with its effect.

[Jellospally]

Blood Mirror is a 2min CD, 20% damage reduction. Purgatory is 3min with its effect.

Ya I never said it was longer CD? I said people will use it wrong which basically makes it a 4m cd because it will do nothing if you use it at a bad time.

Blood Mirror should just be removed from the talent tree so people don't take it imo. It is just so bad outside a pure single target fight for a slight dps gain.

[pmkaboo]

Ya I never said it was longer CD? I said people will use it wrong which basically makes it a 4m cd because it will do nothing if you use it at a bad time.

Blood Mirror should just be removed from the talent tree so people don't take it imo. It is just so bad outside a pure single target fight for a slight dps gain.

i dunno, people using a skill incorrectly doesnt seem like a good reason not to take it. besides, 20% DR for 8 seconds sounds a lot better than subpar aoe that costs over 25% hp or purgatory without death pact.

[Saiyendra]

i dunno, people using a skill incorrectly doesnt seem like a good reason not to take it. besides, 20% DR for 8 seconds sounds a lot better than subpar aoe that costs over 25% hp or purgatory without death pact.

Blood Mirror is just horrible; not sure how anyone can say otherwise. You don't need Death Pact for burst healing (even healers can burst heal you if purgatory procs), and Bonestorm is definitely not subpar AoE >.>

[pmkaboo]

Blood Mirror is just horrible; not sure how anyone can say otherwise. You don't need Death Pact for burst healing (even healers can burst heal you if purgatory procs), and Bonestorm is definitely not subpar AoE >.>

give me one mythic HFC situation where you can use bonestorm effectively.

[Jellospally]

i dunno, people using a skill incorrectly doesnt seem like a good reason not to take it. besides, 20% DR for 8 seconds sounds a lot better than subpar aoe that costs over 25% hp or purgatory without death pact.

Subpar aoe? Oh I guess I didn't know a move that will be nearly your top damage on short huge aoe pulls, heal you for 1% per mob per tick(not to say this is a lot by any means but its just an addition that helps with the amount of mobs), for the cost of NOTHING because you would use it at the start of a new pull and easily will have more RP than needed by the time you really need to DS. You don't just build RP to use it late into a pack.

Purg without death pact? who needs that. You can heal yourself out of it or healers can. At least you didn't die. Blood Mirror wouldn't have stopped that. Don't be clueless to how the class works.

20% DR for a whopping 10 seconds is literally trash when I don't have a cheat death I can use that will allow me to use double dps trinkets or just safety net on progression because X Y and Z happened or healers can just ignore me because they know I have a cheat death.

I mean people can be fine using the wrong talents but when they come spouting its fine as is without any reason other than it sounds better when in practice is it 100% garbage and does nothing for your ability to live.

This feels like the Defile arguement where it gives 10% dr... when in reality that LITERALLY NEVER helped you live not once were you saved by that... it did nothing. Blood Mirror is in the same situation and even worse. Its only 2x more DR than Defile with 4x less uptime than that had. Getting through to the people who thought defile was the best defensive talent was literally impossible so I don't expect anyone to change their mind on Blood Mirror I guess... suboptimal players are the best.

Its funny... if/when trox posts his talent feedback write up they will either be like holy shit I was wrong all along or just ignore it all because ... well idk just dumb reasons.