Thread: Loot priority

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  1. #1
    Deleted

    Loot priority

    So me and a few friends are starting a raiding guild and we're trying to figure out loot priorities.

    I believe we should prioritise the highest dps, while other members believe we should give prio to tanks / heals, especially for tier sets for the bonuses.

    What are people's thoughts and how would you prioritise the gear?

  2. #2
    I've been GM/Officer for several guilds throughout my time playing wow and Ive come to the conclusion that just deciding on whoever thats best at everything they do is not the way to go because the more gear the dps has the more dps he will do in general, of course some "skill" come into play but yeah...
    So giving gear to the guy that has the best dps would hurt you in the long run especially if said person is unable to make it to the raid or acctually leaves the guild when you've met the first out of many walls to climb.

    Using a loot council like this unless you have ALOT of experience with using this kind of loot system I would go for something thats more out of your hands and acctually rewarding people who continously show up to raids and dont make mistakes.
    If people do what they can to be geared for raids to the best of their ability thats very good and should be rewarded in terms of having a chance of getting loot equal to the guy that lucked out on random drops/epics.

    I recommend using EPGP for loot system, have had good experience with using this, it takes a bit more work then using for example Loot council where you just decide who gets the loot on the spot, but you wont have people joining the raid feeling that the loot distribution is unfair.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Gawdsent View Post
    snip.
    As former GM of a hardcore raiding guild (stopped after 7 years), I have never done lootprio for anything. Sure it has passed the debate table. And sure some people in the guild wanted to get more gear for role X Y or Z, but ultimately it is bad business.
    1. tank gets more loot > it takes ages to get the boss down and healermana gets stretched
    2. DPS gets more loot > healers are unable to cope with the damage and or their mana get stretched, tanks feel squishy
    3. Healers gets more loot > tanks feel squishy and dps take ages to down the boss

    In truth the loot priority has NOT been required whatever "sources" you can conjure up since the start of TBC. In Vanilla the loot was sparse.
    For tanks this meant: low agro if dps was better geared = wipes
    For tanks this meant: low survival for incoming blows = wipes

    So loot usually went to tanks. But in other expansions it was bullshit to give lootprio to any one role first. Well... MAYBE if the guilds <insert role> sucked balls and they could not be replaced - it would be wise to pamper those with loot to fix their "skills".

    Ultimately you'll see people with lootpriority leave for greener pastures or quit the game. How do you feel then? How does the guild feel? I think you'll feel pretty fucked. So just pass it fairly along for everyone. Everyone grows equally fast (in theory atleast) and you will have less drama and a better knowledge of who is actually pulling their weight.
    Last edited by Vaelorian; 2016-07-25 at 11:25 AM.

  4. #4
    We used DKP(and EPGP later), then loot council( people with highest attendance had bigger priority etc.), and now we're just using /roll.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    I have never done lootprio for anything.
    And that's probably the best option, no drama and it's fair.
    You killed the boss? You deserve the loot.

    But of course - if someone just came for that one boss, after guilding wiping on it 99 times and then killing it for the first time then you need regulations for that.
    Last edited by Eazy; 2016-07-25 at 11:29 AM.

  5. #5
    Depends on your goals. The absolute best for progress is a fair loot council. That way you put the loot where it gets your group the biggest benefit.
    But beware the possible loot drama that may arise when your raiders care too much about what they get as opposed to what the group gets.
    And you need people that know enough of all classes to make good descisions.

    If progress is not your primary goal I would suggest EPGP. This is a point system that awards points for dedication and items cost points depending on what it is. So a ring would cost much less then a weapon just because a ring is a small upgrade and a weapon the biggest possible in most cases. So you raiders that are there every raid get priority over others for being there. But they don´t stay in priority because the priority is calculated as the quotient of EP (points gained) and GP (points payed for gear). The biggest advantage of epgp is that it runs completely ingame so it is totally transparent.

  6. #6
    Deleted
    dps > tank > heal

  7. #7
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    As former GM of a hardcore raiding guild (stopped after 7 years), I have never done lootprio for anything. Sure it has passed the debate table. And sure some people in the guild wanted to get more gear for role X Y or Z, but ultimately it is bad business.
    1. tank gets more loot > it takes ages to get the boss down and healermana gets stretched
    2. DPS gets more loot > healers are unable to cope with the damage and or their mana get stretched, tanks feel squishy
    3. Healers gets more loot > tanks feel squishy and dps take ages to down the boss

    In truth the loot priority has NOT been required whatever "sources" you can conjure up since the start of TBC. In Vanilla the loot was sparse.
    For tanks this meant: low agro if dps was better geared = wipes
    For tanks this meant: low survival for incoming blows = wipes

    So loot usually went to tanks. But in other expansions it was bullshit to give lootprio to any one role first. Well... MAYBE if the guilds <insert role> sucked balls and they could not be replaced - it would be wise to pamper those with loot to fix their "skills".

    Ultimately you'll see people with lootpriority leave for greener pastures or quit the game. How do you feel then? How does the guild feel? I think you'll feel pretty fucked. So just pass it fairly along for everyone. Everyone grows equally fast (in theory atleast) and you will have less drama and a better knowledge of who is actually pulling their weight.
    What a bunch of bull

    every ''hardcore'' leader knows that dps benefit the most

  8. #8
    The OP is not asking for a system. He is asking what role should get priority.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kaboriza View Post
    What a bunch of bull

    every ''hardcore'' leader knows that dps benefit the most
    Hahahahahahahahaha.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    We used DKP(and EPGP later), then loot council( people with highest attendance had bigger priority etc.), and now we're just using /roll.



    And that's probably the best option, no drama and it's fair.
    You killed the boss? You deserve the loot.

    But of course - if someone just came for that one boss, after guilding wiping on it 99 times and then killing it for the first time then you need regulations for that.
    Exactly. We had a really nice system for that that included your attendance and also what kind of attendance you had(clear night? or wipenight?). And you would accumulate points and could /bid on items you wanted. And even if you would have priority based on your points... I could (almost never done that, we were all adults) step in and say that the item in question would be better elsewhere. If the "would be receiver of my vote"- would say no let the "pointguy" get it, it would all be fine aswell.

  9. #9
    Not sure why everyone is talking about these different loot systems when it has nothing to do with the question being asked. The question was: "What role should get loot first?", not "What type of loot system should we use?".

    To answer the question, most guilds are generally prioritizing DPS players right now although this may change in Legion. With the amount of cooldowns that are (or were) available to tanks, stacking loot on them didn't make much sense, and higher DPS allows raids to pass over some important timers in fights to make them much easier to do. The faster a boss dies, the less healing is required on the tanks so they aren't really taxing healer mana any more either.

    Keep in mind that this may change with Legion however, as most tanks have had a large portion of their active cooldowns removed. I know that on Blood DK, I lost a lot of things I used either for mitigation or to regain runes in the form of Icebound Fortitude, Empower Rune Weapon, and even the old Army of the Dead that gave damage reduction while channeling it, and I'm sure the other tanks received similar pruning so it may be wise to throw a few pieces to tanks if there are hard hitting tank damage abilities in an upcoming boss fight or two (I know Spellblade Aluriel hits tanks like a truck from alpha testing, and Il'gynoth has a large add that needed tank swaps with cooldown usage, but these fights may have changed since the last time I did them) but overall your best bet is (in general) upgrading the DPS right now, although I would avoid stacking one player with all the loot.

  10. #10
    While loot priority sounds like a great idea in theory, in practice it falls apart. People aren't going to be motivated if they know there's 10 people in line in front of them for tier pieces. It's just not fun at all. You can say that people should be dedicated without the lure of immediate gear but it's not practical. Also, loading up a couple players with all your early drops is a real problem if they bolt to another guild.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cronovey View Post
    Not sure why everyone is talking about these different loot systems when it has nothing to do with the question being asked. The question was: "What role should get loot first?", not "What type of loot system should we use?".

    To answer the question, most guilds are generally prioritizing DPS players right now although this may change in Legion. With the amount of cooldowns that are (or were) available to tanks, stacking loot on them didn't make much sense, and higher DPS allows raids to pass over some important timers in fights to make them much easier to do. The faster a boss dies, the less healing is required on the tanks so they aren't really taxing healer mana any more either.

    Keep in mind that this may change with Legion however, as most tanks have had a large portion of their active cooldowns removed. I know that on Blood DK, I lost a lot of things I used either for mitigation or to regain runes in the form of Icebound Fortitude, Empower Rune Weapon, and even the old Army of the Dead that gave damage reduction while channeling it, and I'm sure the other tanks received similar pruning so it may be wise to throw a few pieces to tanks if there are hard hitting tank damage abilities in an upcoming boss fight or two (I know Spellblade Aluriel hits tanks like a truck from alpha testing, and Il'gynoth has a large add that needed tank swaps with cooldown usage, but these fights may have changed since the last time I did them) but overall your best bet is (in general) upgrading the DPS right now, although I would avoid stacking one player with all the loot.
    OP asked the best way to prioritize loot. The best way is don't.
    Beta Club Brosquad

  11. #11
    I always ran with Dps>tanks>healers. With tanks prio if they get smashed. Ofc take in account of the skill level, ilv upgrade and attendance of each person though.

  12. #12
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    Depends on what your goals are. If you truly don't care about progressing then there doesn't really need to be priority at all.

    If your guild cares about progressing, then loot priority is absolutely needed, however that's under the assumption that people in your guild care about progressing. Lots of people and guilds out there who say their motivation is progressing, but in reality it really isn't. Mostly it's members who really aren't honest with themselves about their true motivation.

    It's not a theory and there is really no mystery behind it. All the top guilds or guilds who pride themselves on downing content fast mostly assign loot and have a very clear loot priority. These guilds normally don't break up because of loot related drama, they break up for other reasons. People quitting the game, burned out or their goals have changed over the years (etc).

    If your goal is progression it's always DPS > Tank > Healer, with certain caveats attached. If a set bonus is absolutely crazy for a healer or a tank, there have been times (although incredibly rare) where it might be worthwhile giving a piece of tier to one of those over a DPS. In all my years of raiding at the top this has like maybe happened a couple times. Also there is some opportunity cost involved, especially with the bonus roll system. Sometimes off loading tier on a tank or a healer because they happened to bonus roll a couple pieces or are one piece away from a set bonus might be a good idea. Again DPS > Tank > Healer is the general guide line, you don't 100% adhere to it, but you 95-99% of the time adhere to that if you care about killing bosses faster.

    I've run the same guild since Vanilla and while there is the occasional person quitting because of loot, it hasn't happened in several years and every piece of loot has been assigned by me. If you have great like minded individuals people can pretty much decide among their group who gets what.

    You gear DPS because it is ultimately the biggest barrier to killing any boss. Tanks normally aren't the cause for wipes and the reason you gear tanks second is because they normally contribute more DPS than healers. Healers are last in line because the goal is normally to bring as few healers as possible so you can add more DPS. Pretty much how the game has been played at the top for a decade.

    In the end the faster you kill stuff the more loot you get anyway, giving stuff out terribly or 'equally' usually slows down that whole process.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathquoi View Post
    OP asked the best way to prioritize loot. The best way is don't.
    And that's an answer that fits with the question being asked. Nowhere did the OP ask "SHOULD I USE LOOT COUNCIL?" or "SHOULD I DOWNLOAD EPGP?", and those were really the only answers being given for the first few responses, which didn't address the question at all.

    Like I said in my answer, most guilds are (in general for contested items) giving them to DPS over other roles first right now just because of the race against the clock that most boss fights have become. It's just the way fights are being designed lately. You're not going to one phase Iron Reaver by gearing tanks or healers, you're not going to beat Doomlord spawns on Mannoroth by gearing tanks or healers, you're not going to push Velhari through her second phase with enough remaining HP going into her last phase by gearing tanks/healers, etc.

    For Legion content, it's going to vary and we'll have to see how all the fights play out, but from my experiences in raid testing, I've already said you may want to throw a few pieces to your tanks early because of some very hard hitting bosses in the early raids, while I haven't run into any fights that seemed like there were extreme DPS checks yet, although some boss fights (Cenarius, didn't want to ruin story for anyone) was a bit difficult with lower DPS.

  14. #14
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    But of course - if someone just came for that one boss, after guilding wiping on it 99 times and then killing it for the first time then you need regulations for that.
    Why though? Do they not have equal rights to the loot that dropped if they played their part. It's not their fault they weren't involved for the previous 99 attempts, the point is during the one attempt they were present for they contributed to the outcome.

    They *could* argue that if the group failed 99 times prior them joining that maybe THEY were the reason it succeeded, and that surely they should deserver ALL of the loot

    In response to the OP though and in keeping with the same philosophy, Neither. If you prioritise anyone over fair roll or DKP system, what's to encourage anyone not in your privileged inner circle from turning up the next week?

  15. #15
    If you're going with a MasterLoot/Loot Council type system, and your guild can control their own greed and not whine about gear, and that they actually understand how gearing other players in the raid helps them, then...

    Tanks [until they survive the highest hit] > DPS > Healers = Tanks

    There's literally no reason to gear Tanks or Healers as priority, hasn't been for a LONG time. You should be able to survive the biggest hit before even going into the boss fight so you can pretty much ignore that first part. The reason you gear DPS primarily is because they make the fights shorter. A shorter fight means less damage going out, less healing needed and less chance for people to fuck up. It also makes it less stressful if you can take minutes off of each attempt when progressing.

    For tier sets specifically, definitely not. There hasn't been a tier set worth prioritising Tanks/Healers for since Dragon Soul iirc. That was a gimmick that was OP as fuck and is definitely not the norm.

    If you DON'T have people who understand that, then just use Personal Loot.
    Last edited by Soisoisoi; 2016-07-25 at 12:15 PM.

  16. #16
    Deleted
    Always gear healers last, DPS should be #1 prio, shouldn't give 2 shits about tanks/healers until farm unless there is some beyond broken bug/set

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by lambey View Post
    So me and a few friends are starting a raiding guild and we're trying to figure out loot priorities.

    I believe we should prioritise the highest dps, while other members believe we should give prio to tanks / heals, especially for tier sets for the bonuses.

    What are people's thoughts and how would you prioritise the gear?
    Don't even bother. Just use personal loot. There is also built in bad luck breaker where if someone gets loot that is equal to or less than the ilvl they have, they can pass that loot to someone else. There is absolutely no reason to use master loot anymore. You will just end up gimping your raid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by tenaka30 View Post
    Why though? Do they not have equal rights to the loot that dropped if they played their part. It's not their fault they weren't involved for the previous 99 attempts, the point is during the one attempt they were present for they contributed to the outcome.

    They *could* argue that if the group failed 99 times prior them joining that maybe THEY were the reason it succeeded, and that surely they should deserver ALL of the loot
    Yeah, but you know - some people invested much more time than the one guy. That's actually complex problem which require further analise on that level.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cronovey View Post
    Not sure why everyone is talking about these different loot systems when it has nothing to do with the question being asked. The question was: "What role should get loot first?", not "What type of loot system should we use?".
    He didn't asl "What role should get loot first", but:

    Quote Originally Posted by lambey View Post
    What are people's thoughts and how would you prioritise the gear?
    (these two are totally different things)

    We answered that we are using EPGP/Loot council/Whatever to prioritise gear, not a simple "Get DPS gear first"(which is kinda bad IMO, we had problems when we were pushing Highmaul with tanks, so they get their gear first).

    Quote Originally Posted by kaboriza View Post
    What a bunch of bull

    every ''hardcore'' leader knows that dps benefit the most
    Gl HF with that attitude in Legion.
    Last edited by Eazy; 2016-07-25 at 12:26 PM.

  19. #19
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    Don't even bother. Just use personal loot. There is also built in bad luck breaker where if someone gets loot that is equal to or less than the ilvl they have, they can pass that loot to someone else. There is absolutely no reason to use master loot anymore. You will just end up gimping your raid.
    for high end(mythic) guilds ML is still best option they can way easier funnel tier, trinkets etc into specefic classes, pl wouldnt alow that since whenn you first go into M evrything is higher ilvl, but doesnt mean it will be a upgrade.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by kaboriza View Post
    every ''hardcore'' leader knows that dps benefit the most
    The OP didn't even specify what kind of raiding is his guild doing... Normal? HC? Mythic? Going for world ranks?

    If Legion follows the same rule as HM > BRF, there will be no tiers in first raid, only in the second. By that time you will establish hopefully who are your core reliable raiders that show up properly and don't die in the first minute of pull (gear is wasted on those), also people will gather some coins tell them to coin tier bosses and then you can give tiers to whoever is gonna get setbonus faster. My 2 cents.

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