Can Islam And Western Society Ever Peacefully Co-exist?

[tankbug]

Nope ur the one very confused because yo are the one moving this discussion away from the original question.


Clearly u missed the post i mentioned that i have been studying these books for years... Theology degree.

Wow... talk about being butthurt your point failed.

Changing your point doesnt save u lol

Honor killings are fukking real regardless of your insanely stupid logic trying to pretend that it doesnt. Welcome to the real world where we discuss reality and not some extreme ideological world.

Yes i do blame Islam. Its a version of Islam which promotes this doctrine.

Ru really going there about the Bible and Homosexuality?

U do know you are about to get blown out of the fukking water right?

HOMOSEXUALITY IS LEGAL IN THE WEST. (Christian countries)

HOMOSEXUALITY IS ILLEGAL IN MUSLIM COUNTRIES.

Ffs dude who gives a fukk about interpretation of the Bible or the Qu'ran... it means absolutely fukk all to this discussion. We are discussing laws of the land here. We are discussing WESTERN SOCIETY Vs a religion.

The laws within Western Society are not open to interpretation, theyre set in stone facts. Therefore who gives a flying fukk what it says in the bible.

We are discussing whether those set in stone laws are compatible with Islam. Sheesh dude get your head together.

Now you're just all over the place with your pathetic insult rant.
First of all, if you actually have a theology degree, you must have produced written material with proper spelling, so please apply the same standards here. It's incredibly annoying to read your post since they appear to have been written by some chav cunt.


Let's put things into perspective.
No matter what the topic here started as, what it evolved into, or how it's been narrowed down, I think this is what you're focusing on:

Can Islam, according to it's religious text (not practiced Islam) co-exist with a western society's laws (not christian)?

To that my answer is, who cares? Can any ancient religion with an extensive set of rules be followed to the last law in a secular society?
We will never be affected by dead words on a an old print, only how people that believe in them use them to make decisions in their lives.

The real question is, can Islam be practiced in a way that conforms with western values. I think yes. Many muslims, maybe even a majority, still have outdated views on gender equality, homosexuality etc, but that will change in time.

[Deleted]

I would also argue that there are no fundamental differences between various religions in terms of morals: some details might be different, but in the end, a fully developed society historically based on Islamic values would probably be very similar to a fully developed society historically based on Christian values.

Sadly this demonstrates just how little you understand religions

I could go into serious detail on how different the major religions actually are but i basically cba lol. It always amazes me how Western Liberals assume that everyone on the planet is the same under their respective religions. Theyre not. Sad but true.

In an ideal world every religion would be similiar, theyre not. For example, Muslims see themselves as slaves under god. Christians see themselves as saved by god. Jews see themselves as the chosen ones under god. Buddhists see the entire universe as god. These are utterly fundamental massive gulfs of difference. I guess these differences are only understood by people who actually studied this shit (like i do).

Id love all religions to live together in harmony buyt sadly reality proves time and again that this simply isnt easily achieved. The issues of Israel have been around for thousands of years... do you really think this can be solved within a few years?

[May90]

Sadly this demonstrates just how little you understand religions

I could go into serious detail on how different the major religions actually are but i basically cba lol. It always amazes me how Western Liberals assume that everyone on the planet is the same under their respective religions. Theyre not. Sad but true.

In an ideal world every religion would be similiar, theyre not. For example, Muslims see themselves as slaves under god. Christians see themselves as saved by god. Jews see themselves as the chosen ones under god. Buddhists see the entire universe as god. These are utterly fundamental massive gulfs of difference. I guess these differences are only understood by people who actually studied this shit (like i do).

Id love all religions to live together in harmony buyt sadly reality proves time and again that this simply isnt easily achieved. The issues of Israel have been around for thousands of years... do you really think this can be solved within a few years?

That's not what I meant though. Of course there are differences. But those differences aren't fundamental in the way of leading to a different "perfect" society: history self-corrects societies. Some things work better, some do not; those that do not are eventually rejected. Morals evolve, ethics evolve, rules evolve. If you will, societies also experience natural selection, and that natural selection has a definitive final result, which doesn't depend on the initial state. You bet, in 10,000 years in historically Islamic-based societies no one will believe in Allah, regardless of whether they believe in him today.

Today everything is changing rapidly in the world. I'm pretty sure the dispute with Israel will be resolved eventually as well. Give it 100-200 years - you won't recognize this planet!

[Tatsujin]

Islam is currently co-existing with the world. I don't know about other cities outside of Chicago and I know Chicago isn't the biggest place for Muslims, but come down to Chicago. We have 9 mosques (or more?) and most get filled very fast on important prayers, like Friday prayer at noon.

The Media only reports bad things about Islam, you will rarely ever encounter something good on the Media.

Islam is perfect, Muslims are not. Also, not all people are Muslims ... just because they call themselves Muslims and begin to attack innocent people doesn't make them Muslims. ISIS is a good example.

[TheMediator]

Islam is currently co-existing with the world.

In the literal sense, yes. Islam exists, and Western society exists, but the topic was about PEACEFUL co-existence. Muslims need to submit to secular authority but refuse to, it's pretty much that simple.

[Idoru]

I don't think eastern Islam and western society can. Eastern Islam is far too oppressive and barbaric.

So were most western religions at some point in time.

[Deleted]

Now you're just all over the place with your pathetic insult rant.
First of all, if you actually have a theology degree, you must have produced written material with proper spelling, so please apply the same standards here. It's incredibly annoying to read your post since they appear to have been written by some chav cunt.

Welcome to the internet where people type fast

Let's put things into perspective.
No matter what the topic here started as, what it evolved into, or how it's been narrowed down, I think this is what you're focusing on:

Can Islam, according to it's religious text (not practiced Islam) co-exist with a western society's laws (not christian)?

To that my answer is, who cares? Can any ancient religion with an extensive set of rules be followed to the last law in a secular society?
We will never be affected by dead words on a an old print, only how people that believe in them use them to make decisions in their lives.

The real question is, can Islam be practiced in a way that conforms with western values. I think yes. Many muslims, maybe even a majority, still have outdated views on gender equality, homosexuality etc, but that will change in time.

Another idealistic answer.

In an ideal world your wishes would stand up... but lets talk about the real world.

In this real world religions are divisive and dangerous. Especially Islam right now. A religion where many factions have declared war against the West.

Therefore considering that this thread is asking whether Islam can exist alongside Western Society, my position is that it cannot. The fundamental principles of Islam are utterly at odds with too many Western principles.

[tankbug]

In the literal sense, yes. Islam exists, and western society exist, but the topic was about PEACEFUL co-existence. Muslims need to submit to secular authority but refuse to, it's pretty much that simple.

Most of the muslim immigrants in western societies follow the laws of the land, though. If they didn't, we would have had civil war all over the world.

[MrLachyG]

Yes. Many Muslims already live peacefully, it's just the 0.1% who fuck it up for the rest of them

[Deleted]

Western society has gone out of it's way to split itself from religion because no one wanted the disaster that was the middle ages to happen again. Christian morals are no better than that of Islam if you doubt it look into African and some Caribbean countries where the church has basically taken over government. From the aids epidemic to the killings of homosexuals and non Christians, people in glass houses should not be throwing stones.

To say that the Western society isn' build on christianity is clearly wrong. This doesn't stop criticism to the most horrendous acts of religious governance, but History cannot be fooled that easily.

For starter, the law system we have is the result of 1000 years of religious (catholic) courts.

We see the XV century that the church branches futher under the force of some heretics: Francesco and Waldo (XIII), Dolcinus (XIV), Luther (XV), Calvin (XVI)... Their heresies were addressed - sometime with a bloodshed - but every time something changed, and these changes ware the basis used in the XVIII century for Illuminism and our Egalitarian values.

Religion would prove fundamental again in the work of Quakers and the direction of USA in the XX century.

You can then expand further into the figure of Martin Luther King and the use of christian rethorics , an important stone in these advancements of society we're advocating.

The lesson is that we didn't get there by mistake, it was a long process, and it's something unique in the christian world.

[Vorkreist]

So were most western religions at some point in time.

We are in 2016 in case you forgot.

[Arcrin]

didnt bother reading 16 pages but OP no Islam culture and european culture can not co-exist in peace. Since Islam was made 1600 years or so ago they have been fighting against us ever since. the "religion of peace" is a very, very modern stand for muslims to take and even the muslims who says that live in ghettos and dont assimilate. sure some muslims do but its fewer than its worth.

I firmly believe you should take care of your own before you help others just like you need to take oxygen mask on first before you help your kids in a plane. And some places the opposite is happening which in the long run will ruin the country.

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So were most western religions at some point in time.

this is what a child says when they get caught. its no excuse.

[Theoris]

Islam is inherently supremacism. It doesn't want to integrate into Western society, it wants to conquer it.

[zenkai]

Yes. The same way that we manage to have Catholics and Protestants living alongside one another.

Jesus didn't say kill the infidels.

[Arewn]

Maybe. But that's on Islam, not the west. The west has been perfectly fine co-existing with a great variety of religions and societies, some Muslims included.

[willtron]

So were most western religions at some point in time.

True, but we as a society have moved forwards, a lot of religions have embraced that. Eastern Islam is an enemy of that societal progress.

[TheMediator]

Islam is inherently supremacism. It doesn't want to integrate into Western society, it wants to conquer it.

Absolutely. I've said it in thread after thread, but one of the biggest problems with Islam is that it advocates that Muslims should be first class citizens, so when a Muslim gets turned down for a job, can't find work, he sees the world as "flawed", rather than seeing himself as flawed. It's the perfect machine for turning those who have experienced some form of hardship into deranged killers. It's also why Europe is getting cucked so hard, because it assumes there's some sort of process of radicalization that happens to Muslims, where Islam itself is radicalization but simply not acted upon until some catalyst triggers a violent reaction.

[xfloydex]

We can with some of them. But then those that we can aren't actually Muslims at all. We call them moderates rather than false Muslims, to be kind.

True Muslims that conform to the will of their mentally ill prophet are the problem. And no we cant co-exist with them. They are 500 years behind Christianity. And have a lot of growing up to do.

[Deleted]

Jesus didn't say kill the infidels.

Well the Bible does say that non-believers will perish for eternity (as does the Qu'ran).
"Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly. Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion - [forbids] that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers." - Surat Al-Mumtahanah [60:8-9]

[Deleted]

The Islam country ISIS could use a few nuclear neutron bombs dropped on their heads.