Can Islam And Western Society Ever Peacefully Co-exist?

[Acidbaron]

No. The only reason other religions have been able to co-exist is because they've lost a lot of influence over the years and our society has adapted around a very unreligious culture. Most Muslims are HEAVILY religious and hold ideals from a different part of the world higher than our own.

They'll never be able to co exist with us until Islam starts to decline.

Have they lost a lot of influence? Can for example a non-christian become president of the US?

Doesn't have to be a muslim, hindu or what not. Simply an atheist a person with no background or interest in religion. Southern american countries, abortion laws there are still not great, not just southern american though, look at other nations like Spain or Italy where you see a heavy influence from the church regarding some matters, being it again women rights or gay rights. Or take a look to the east, Poland same story there.

Sure the pope may no longer directly influence who rules a country but Christianity is sadly far from gone.

[TheMediator]

Religion in general, regardless of which Cult you choose, is not compatible with reality.

Christians don't believe they're favored people on Earth, their rewards are more spiritual in nature. Muslims have this entitlement complex though - their prophet promised them they deserved to be first-class citizens and the rest are second-class citizens, so when reality disagrees with their fantasy, they go ape-shit like an autistic retard losing a game of smash brothers.

[BrintoSFJ]

That is not possible, for Islam and muslims to co-exist with modern western society and their values, they have to totally discard a lot of standards dictated by Koran. Koran stands above all law, standard and constitution, it is not possible to change or even ignore a single word of Koran if a muslim wants to stay a muslim. So it is completely impossible for western world and rest of the progressive world to co-exist with Islam and muslims.

[May90]

Absolutely. I suggest anyone rational, secular person defending Islam actually sit down and discuss the religion with one of these Muslims, your mind will be blown at their barbarism.

Yet again, time travel to the time of Crusades and discuss Christianity with one of those Christians - your mind would be blown at their barbarism. What's different? In the Western society, religious fundamentalism actually is gone (for the most part), while in the Middle Eastern one, not yet.

[Deleted]

no it cannot. Islam is a problem in all countries where it is a minority.
and islam is an even bigger problem in countries where it is a majority. In those countries where islam is the majority other religions get undermined and people of different faith killed.

Islam will take over simply because the religion is stubborn and doesn't allow any change. In countries where islam is a minority muslims pretend to be more open minded, but watch what happens once they are the majority.

Islam will be the biggest religion by 2030 and that will be a very dangerous time.

I know how my words sounds, but even the most objective rational person knows I am right. Islam never surrends, islam never stops. They always want to spread (that is what the word Jihad basically means).

Muslim people don't allow their children to marry non-muslims. Muslim people don't allow their children to be non-religious or they get killed (honor murder).

[BrintoSFJ]

Christians don't believe they're favored people on Earth, their rewards are more spiritual in nature. Muslims have this entitlement complex though - their prophet promised them they deserved to be first-class citizens and the rest are second-class citizens, so when reality disagrees with their fantasy, they go ape-shit like an autistic retard losing a game of smash brothers.

You are forgetting that Christians used to be very very entitled in middle age and committed horrible atrocities in the name of christ. It took them nearly 2000 years to adjust to progressive values and scientific advancements.

[Draco-Onis]

Christians don't believe they're favored people on Earth, their rewards are more spiritual in nature. Muslims have this entitlement complex though - their prophet promised them they deserved to be first-class citizens and the rest are second-class citizens, so when reality disagrees with their fantasy, they go ape-shit like an autistic retard losing a game of smash brothers.

You may want to check the bible, there's tons and tons of passages about Christians being special because they have the lord and non Christians being described as ignorant savages, that's not even going into the chosen people thing.

[Deleted]

It's a tricky one. Had a very good discussion with a friend of mine the other day. She is pretty right leaning while I tend more center/left. But I'll give her that she made some arguments that I couldn't really counter.

The main one is that fundamental Islam has a lot of elements that inevitably lead to conflicts with other religions and ideologies, often violently and that it's very difficult to make peace with anyone who at a certain level wants you dead.

Without going into the ins and outs of religion in general, is there any way that Muslims in general can integrate with Western society at large or are we going to reach a point where a religion is going to need to be treated like a fringe hate group?

They can if they stop believing in the rotten teachings of Islam -- at which point they would no longer be Muslims though.

But Islam is very appealing, especially for those who already are low-minded and violent by nature; those who aren't, face a constant struggle while trying to navigate their way around the violent commandments of Islam. While Christianity promises spiritual salvation and peace, Islam promises carnal pleasures in the afterlife (and already in this life in the form of plunder and sex slaves from jihad) for those who fight to spread it, appealing to very primitive (and thus very strong) instincts.

[Deleted]

And I suggest you read the New and Old testaments. .

FFs u clearly havent read this thread... i have a degree in Theology.

So i probably know more about the Bible than u *sigh*

The bible says that you should resist authorities (and thus laws) that have no been instituted by God. Very similar to the Qu'ran. You clearly don't understand fundamental Christianity or Judaism. See Israel for the persecution of non-Jews (of course there is also persecution of Jews but it goes both ways). Too imply that Christianity or Judaism has some sort of moral high ground over Islam and is thus more compatible with the West is wrong. The only difference is that due to Imperialism our society has been forced to mix with other cultures and has thus Christianity and Judaism have become more tolerant to them (met with great resistance by religion). Science has also diminished the impact of religion where as the Enlightenment never really occur in Islamic countries - it was primarily confined to Europe.

All of this ideological assumption is flat out untrue. It has fukk all to do with Christian superiority over Islam... i dont advocate either religion thanks.

Common Qu'ran teachings are thinking like... women are 100% subserviant to men, they are property of men. Homosexuality is a heresy. Islam has zero tollerance of other beliefs, theyre all infidels. These are core principles that are totally incompatible with Western life.

Western Society has completely different core principles to Islam... people who fail to acknowledge this are simply uninformed.

[TheMediator]

Yet again, time travel to the time of Crusades and discuss Christianity with one of those Christians - your mind would be blown at their barbarism. What's different? In the Western society, religious fundamentalism actually is gone (for the most part), while in the Middle Eastern one, not yet.

Christianity had the room to grow away from that phase if it's life. Islam has never grown out of it's violence because it is a core tenant. It was born in and grew through violence. Islam is violence.

You may want to check the bible, there's tons and tons of passages about Christians being special because they have the lord and non Christians being described as ignorant savages, that's not even going into the chosen people thing.

Chosen people are Jews, not Christians.

[Nihilist74]

They can but not for a long time. I have heard people say that Islam is the same age as Christianity was during the time of the crusades on Jerusalem. Its going to take some time for Muslims to evolve into a less fanatical state.

[Deleted]

The retarded crazy fairytale Islamists? Obviously not ... noone can coexists with a looney. People who kill for fairytale believes can only exist in a mental hospital ... I mean seriously, I love Star Wars, imagine if a I go on killing spree in the glory of the Sith ... how retarded would I be on scale from 1 to 10?

[Deleted]

Christianity had the room to grow away from that phase if it's life. Islam has never grown out of it's violence because it is a core tenant. It was born in and grew through violence. Islam is violence.

I suggest u read up on the Crusades because the Christians were the barbaric ones by a mile. Read up on Saladin and the Muslim army. They forgave and released thousands of captured crusaders whereas the Crusaders executed everyone in their path, women and children included.

[Aucald]

As religion is currently on a global downward trend in general, I think there will come a time when co-existence will be easy because the number of adherents of the major religions will no longer have the power to set policy. Once the major religious descend to the level of backward superstition they won't have nearly the needed influence to cause issues with co-existence or geopolitical peace.

[Draco-Onis]

Common Qu'ran teachings are thinking like... women are 100% subserviant to men, they are property of men. Homosexuality is a heresy. Islam has zero tollerance of other beliefs, theyre all infidels. These are core principles that are totally incompatible with Western life.

Western Society has completely different core principles to Islam... people who fail to acknowledge this are simply uninformed.

That's something Christians and Muslims have in common, I think the point is if Christians become fine same will go for Muslims. Also it is worth noting that millions of Muslims co-exist and have co-existed in western society with no problems for a very long time. Before 9/11 people did not care about Muslims they were just another generic religion with good and bad people like every other one.

- - - Updated - - -

Chosen people are Jews, not Christians.

Yes and when they rejected the word Christians became the chosen people not just the Jews.

[Aeula]

Have they lost a lot of influence? Can for example a non-christian become president of the US?

Doesn't have to be a muslim, hindu or what not. Simply an atheist a person with no background or interest in religion. Southern american countries, abortion laws there are still not great, not just southern american though, look at other nations like Spain or Italy where you see a heavy influence from the church regarding some matters, being it again women rights or gay rights. Or take a look to the east, Poland same story there.

Sure the pope may no longer directly influence who rules a country but Christianity is sadly far from gone.

Don't know or care much about America. In England the influence of Christianity has almost completely gone. Sure there are a few rituals here and there but at best they're just quaint little things that only a minority of Christians bother with. Most Christians don't go past 'believing in God', they don't even go to church. Hell our last prime minister got ripped on for calling the country a 'Christian Country'.

Pretty sure an Atheist or whatever can become prime minister here too. I imagine it's the same for most of Europe.

[Deleted]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-Phillips.html

Muslims are 'not like us' and we should just accept they will never integrate, says former racial equalities chief Trevor Phillips

[Acidbaron]

I suggest u read up on the Crusades because the Christians were the barbaric ones by a mile. Read up on Saladin and the Muslim army. They forgave and released thousands of captured crusaders whereas the Crusaders executed everyone in their path, women and children included.

Well Saladin army was made out of Soldiers, the Crusades were a tool and often use to give those convicted of crimes another chance, in other words a bunch of criminals.

Religion in both ends had very little to do with how merciful or cruel the groups are if you reduce it who was actually taking part.

[A Dark Knight]

right now there are over 5000 US muslim soldiers serving in the military, why dont you go and ask them.

[Deleted]

That's something Christians and Muslims have in common, I think the point is if Christians become fine same will go for Muslims. Also it is worth noting that millions of Muslims co-exist and have co-existed in western society with no problems for a very long time. Before 9/11 people did not care about Muslims they were just another generic religion with good and bad people like every other one..

U still dont get it do you *facedesk*

No Christian countries have laws whcih are even close to this. Whereas Muslim countries do.

Ffs dude wake up and measure whats in front of your face instead of ideologicla bullshit. Ideologically u can say whatever u like about relgions... im only measuring the facts as they stand right now. Today... in the real world.

In the real world women are equal to men in Western Society and they ARE NOT in Muslim countries... UNDENIABLE FACT.


- - - Updated - - -

Yes and when they rejected the word Christians became the chosen people not just the Jews.

He is correct... Jews are the chosen people not Christains *sigh*