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  1. #1
    Field Marshal Whitemist's Avatar
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    Momentum build - Too awkward?

    Hello guys,

    Been rogue throughout this expansion, and seriously considering a re-roll to DH as main in Legion. I leveld it to 110 on beta, and been doing some instances. I would never choose a class based on damage output, as that usually change as a pendulum in every expansion, but having some concerns.

    My question is as following; What do you expect to be the best build going into Legion? I found the movement needed to keep momentum up really awkward, and lacking synergy. How important of a role do you consider this to be in the playstyle (raid environment)? Is this an opinion shared by community, or just down to getting used to it?

    Any tips/opinions much appreciated

  2. #2
    To be honest most people I know think the momentum gameplay is pretty neat. In raids it should probably be the best build due to effirt/reward, but who knows how blizzard will tune stuff.

  3. #3
    Momentum is definitely something that needs a lot of practice to get right. What I've found, though, is when you stop trying to get near max uptime for it, and start deliberately planning your movement around it is when it starts to make sense. If you wait until you have two movement abilities (with Felblade being one of them) before using them then it works out much better then if you just use them on CD. You loose more dps VRing out of range, then you would gain from the buff and the Fury from perfectly timing FR and VR. Just my experience.
    Orloth SilverEye
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  4. #4
    Field Marshal Whitemist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orloth View Post
    Momentum is definitely something that needs a lot of practice to get right. What I've found, though, is when you stop trying to get near max uptime for it, and start deliberately planning your movement around it is when it starts to make sense. If you wait until you have two movement abilities (with Felblade being one of them) before using them then it works out much better then if you just use them on CD. You loose more dps VRing out of range, then you would gain from the buff and the Fury from perfectly timing FR and VR. Just my experience.
    Thank you, it was something like this I was looking for. How much are you actually using Felrush to keep it up? The synergy of VR and Felblade is something I really like, but if it in addition is crucial to keep charging around the hitbox with rush, I'm affraid it will feel "out of sync" if that makes sense? Any thoughts on that?

  5. #5
    I think that if the boss' hitbox will be big enough to just fell rush around one can easily pick bloodlet with master of the glaive for a 100% uptime bleed on the boss.

  6. #6
    Yeah, if the boss is big enough you don't really need to worry about this, but it doesn't happen often.

    The rest of the time, it's less about how much you use which ability, and more about making sure every time an ability takes you out, you have a way to get back in. It's ok to sit on the cooldown of VR for a bit, if you're waiting for a FR or Fb to pair with it so that you don't loose any melee uptime. If you wind up pairing VR and FR or two FRs it's not actually a bad thing (pretty good to fit an Eye Beam, TG (Bloodlet), or FBarr in between there, but not required).

    But... I'm currently running the much simpler to manage: FM/DB/Fb////FBarr, and just cast Fel Rush(or VR) > Felblade every time Felblade procs.

    As to VR and Fb syncing, I've heard that quite a lot and I know a lot of people do this, but I really don't like using it this way. Felblade hits almost as hard as CS, and I don't like not using it when it procs. That said, it doesn't actually proc often without Demon Blades, so if you're comfortable ignoring it and keeping them synced than that works for you. In that case, you would pair your FRs together when you get both charges, unless you need them to reposition or the boss is big enough to not put you out of range.
    Last edited by Orloth; 2016-07-25 at 11:57 AM.
    Orloth SilverEye
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  7. #7
    I think Havoc is going to be one of the highest planning/rewarding classes out there. From a small time playing i think it takes some adjustment to normal Dps thinking which is hit most buttons on cd. Think it will take some getting used to is all, but it won't be for everyone. Think DH is going to bring some incredible burst aoe to the table when played well. Fel Rush being a damage ability is actually cool as well. Think we have to stop thinking about 100% sticking to the boss, and pre planning Fel rushes for the damage boost with Our artifact ability, Barrage, Eye Beam etc.

  8. #8
    Elemental Lord Tekkommo's Avatar
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    It's definitely awkward to use on small hit boxes and won't always be viable.

    Many raid encounters require you to avoid aoe and require stacking.

    I think it will be great for fights where the hit box is huge and your rush won't take you out of range.

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    Field Marshal Whitemist's Avatar
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    Thank you for all responses, it pretty much summed up my thoughts around it and gave me some new input. I guess my fear is going from something familiar, to something brand new where the use of mobility is a huge factor of your damage output. The mobility aspect, I guess, will depend more on the nature of the fight than what other melee DPS will have to worry about. I'll play around with it a bit more on beta, and hopefully become more comfortable with it

  10. #10
    If the talent has a negligible performance difference compared to the other options, you can simply just piss on it and play what is fun. I know I will do that. I don't THINK I will enjoy playing that talent setup, I haven't been able to play a DH yet but I'm going to main one for sure, especially since I'm no longer going hardcore, mostly pvp/casual raiding/goldmaking, so I really won't give a fuck about a minor DPS increase in the 2-5% range. If you're not pushing for world firsts or any top100 rankings I don't see why you should either.

    The talent looks SHIT because the buff starts as soon as you use that movement skill, so you lose some of that buff before you even get back to the target if the target in question doesn't have a gianormous hitbox. That seems like crap design, it should perhaps start with the first autoattack after the movement skill, so if you get out of range, get back and start attacking it'd pop the buff then so you can fully reap the benefit of it.
    Last edited by mauserr; 2016-07-25 at 01:06 PM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Orloth View Post
    Momentum is definitely something that needs a lot of practice to get right. What I've found, though, is when you stop trying to get near max uptime for it, and start deliberately planning your movement around it is when it starts to make sense. If you wait until you have two movement abilities (with Felblade being one of them) before using them then it works out much better then if you just use them on CD. You loose more dps VRing out of range, then you would gain from the buff and the Fury from perfectly timing FR and VR. Just my experience.
    Agreed, Probably be the best build after people have had time to get use to DH's movement with FR/VR, but atleast once you get it near perfect you will see the difference in dps.

  12. #12
    It will be situational. Bosses with small hit boxes , cleave abilities, or lots of void zone mechanics will be tough with Momentum. It will be really hard to use against Krosus. You'll have to dash side to side or you will fly off the bridge and die. Not worth the effort imo, unless it ends up being a huge dps increase(unlikely). I'll be sticking with Fel Eruption for single target or Nemesis for fights with adds like Skorpyron.

  13. #13
    I personally hate the Momentum build. But with that being said I do see a significant DPS increase while using it. Granted, I'm not raid geared or anything close. But the "feel" is clunky as hell. Fellblade would alleviate much of that feeling, however, Bloodlet does more damage, flat out. So I will be expect me to play the "best" even though I personally despise the momentum game play.

    I look forward to Simcraft logs to show how much of a difference there is between builds.
    Last edited by Vuhl; 2016-07-25 at 05:46 PM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Vuhl View Post
    I personally hate the Momentum build. But with that being said I do see a significant DPS increase while using it. Granted, I'm not raid geared or anything close. But the "feel" is clunky as hell. Fellblade would alleviate much of that feeling, however, Bloodlet does more damage, flat out. So I will be expect me to play the "best" even though I personally despise the momentum game play.

    I look forward to Simcraft logs to show how much of a difference there is between builds.
    The spec should have Felblade baseline in the first place, not to mention having something that actually procs and being worth pressing would make it a bit less stale sometimes. I think Momentum would be better if it had a bit more emphasis on using your Fel Rush/VR in conjunction with Felblade and the resets you gain to usually have it up. I still think they could make a few changes to how Momentum as a whole plays out.
    *Insert every single ridiculous PC parts detail here that no one cares about*

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by La View Post
    The spec should have Felblade baseline in the first place, not to mention having something that actually procs and being worth pressing would make it a bit less stale sometimes. I think Momentum would be better if it had a bit more emphasis on using your Fel Rush/VR in conjunction with Felblade and the resets you gain to usually have it up. I still think they could make a few changes to how Momentum as a whole plays out.
    I 100% agree. Fellblade feels like it should be already apart of the tool kit. And for me, is the only thing that makes Momentum bearable, alas.

  16. #16
    Deleted
    I think the idea of momentum dps is seriously stupid, misconstrued and clunky. Coming from a monk who despised the old storm earth and fire, this seems very similar to me. I don't think your movement abilities that help you get to a boss should be a part of your rotation. Momentum seems more like it was intended to be designed for pvp.

    Hopefully the % difference between momentum builds and regular builds will be so marginal that it means I don't need to play this silly play style.

    I know momentum is going to be so problematic on smaller bosses or bosses that involve a lot of movement. Because your movement spells are being wasted on dps gains momentarily rather than actually getting to a boss in the first place. That and if there's lots of random environmental issues (think slag bombs) then this will get REALLY annoying trying to avoid the environment, staying on the boss AND trying to make sure you don't accidentally rush into a bomb of sorts.

    That's just my take on it, I know I'm one of the few people who probably dislike the build. I think in theory the build sounds REALLY fun and it does actually sound really cool on paper, zipping around a boss constantly dashing around him hitting him for dps. But in practical applications because of the aforementioned problems I mentioned I can imagine it being so damn annoying in practice.

  17. #17
    The dps gain is not an abyss,one can always use the other talents if he dont like momentum build.We will see after the release what build will be the best,and maybe in dungeons the momentum one wont be ideal.

  18. #18
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Jhos View Post
    The dps gain is not an abyss,one can always use the other talents if he dont like momentum build.We will see after the release what build will be the best,and maybe in dungeons the momentum one wont be ideal.
    Momentum will probably be really good in dungeons because of aoe and fel rush being able to do a lot of damage in packs I think.

  19. #19
    Yes but i think it wont always possible to charge back and forth without aggroing packs,but i don't really know legion's dungeons.For an aoe purpose momentum is really good:charge through following with an eye beam,charge back for blade dance/barrage/throw glaive etc

  20. #20
    Deleted
    Nemesis has another +: You can use it on longer burn phases or when you need the DPS for a longer time than a few seconds.
    I think the best way is to learn the playstyle of all 106 talents. All 3 talents are fine, maybe FE could have a very little, little buff.

    All three talents have their niche, I really enjoy this, but did not like momentum a lot. But I have to practice it. I'm sure, the talent is fine, when I'm comfortable with it.

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