[BETA] Demonology Warlock Discussion

[Deleted]

Locks have always been relioant on gear crutches since vanilla? Simply not true, not true at all.

And as I pointed out, at their current design state, demo locks are wildly overpowered with the T18 and class trinket, because they synergise with the redesign in a way they were very obviously never intended to so, and my guess is that Blizzard either didn't spot it, or did and just didn't care about it, because it doesn't matter much for the six weeks or prepatch play.

But unless demonology gets some serious buffs to base damage output which isn;t great even on a Patchwerk where you don't have to move and can align everything properly - then they won't be used, because the mixture of at best mediocre damage combined with an extremely poor toolbox and comparatively having to work your tits off for little reward is deadly.

Destruction is easier, more rewarding, and has better tools for dealing with an encounter than demonology. And plenty of classes are easier, more rewarding and have better tools for any situation than destruction.

Given a fresh start no one in their right minds would chose a warlock of any spec over an MM hunter, unless they thought that class fantasy was more important than anything else. I doubt you'll be seeing many if any locks in Mythic progression.

As it stands demonology doesn;t even have a "gear crutch" for Legion, sinc eobviously, the whole idea is not to keep T18 and class trinkets - which are only wildly overpowered because they were designed for WoD demo, not Legion demo. There just doesn;t seem to be any Legion gear crutch and it would be horrible if there was.

So at the moment demo in live is doing at least 50% more damage than it should and you are dumping some of the rotation - that's not really a gear crutch, it's a broken class with broken gear producing hugely skewed results...and very false impressions.

[Duckz0rs]

@Nebiroth99 I'll risk sounding like a douche here but that's not my intention. Let's be honest, you've been complaining since the start of Alpha that locks are horribly broken and everyone would be better off if we re-rolled MM or Fire mage because they do more damage and are easier. So, reroll to one of those. Plenty of arguments have been given that Destro and Aff aren't completely broken, Demo has it's weak points but might still have a place but none of that has deterred you.

If you truly believe that you'd be better off rerolling why wouldn't you do so despite attachment to the class? If you're right more and more people will reroll to different specs and if nothing else, that will prove your point to Blizzard and force them to act. Nothing proves a point better than mass rerolls. Again, I'm not trying to be condescending, I'm mostly curious.

Sorry for the off-topic post everyone!

[Gaidax]

It's the usual thing, we have a couple of guys/gals who are so salty about warlocks that their mind is already hard wired on negativity to almost maniacal level. Basically just learn to take them with a good grain of salt.

There is some truth in what they say, but it is exaggerated to such magnitude that it's almost hilarious and it does not help that they usually omit the absolutely insane things Warlocks can do and will do in Legion like Destruction's broken cleave and Affliction mass AoE which will surely end up producing a lot of tears from the likes of the classes these guys usually promote.

Speaking of which in their comparisons they take acceptably broken specs as well, for example Fire Mage is as FOTM as it gets so if you compare most of the specs of any class to it - they will look like shit.

Basically, a chill pill is in order for some here.

[muto]

Really loving the revamp. The spec was just way too clunky before.

[Deleted]

My main problem with Demonology so far is that it feels too reliant on Demonic Empowerment. It also simply feels way too spammy, having to cast it each time you summon something. I'd much rather see it become a cooldown which focuses all summoned demons onto your target and empowers them.

[Relapses]

Playing Demo on my 741 Warlock in the prepatch feels illegal. I have 5 toons at 740+ and it's absolutely unreal how much more DPS the spec is doing than any other class atm with virtually zero skill involved. I know this is largely due to the interaction with Class Trinket/4-set but it's still hilariously overpowered. I'd say it's even worse than Aff in SoO atm, but it's just prepatch so who really cares, right?

[Smog]

Playing Demo on my 741 Warlock in the prepatch feels illegal. I have 5 toons at 740+ and it's absolutely unreal how much more DPS the spec is doing than any other class atm with virtually zero skill involved. I know this is largely due to the interaction with Class Trinket/4-set but it's still hilariously overpowered. I'd say it's even worse than Aff in SoO atm, but it's just prepatch so who really cares, right?

Yes, exactly, no one cares. It's not largely due to the trinket and tier, it's entirely due to the trinket and tier.

[Taeron]

Playing Demo on my 741 Warlock in the prepatch feels illegal. I have 5 toons at 740+ and it's absolutely unreal how much more DPS the spec is doing than any other class atm with virtually zero skill involved. I know this is largely due to the interaction with Class Trinket/4-set but it's still hilariously overpowered. I'd say it's even worse than Aff in SoO atm, but it's just prepatch so who really cares, right?

Its unreal how hilariously overpowered this "no-skill 3-button" spec does compared to other classes due to interaction with class trinket and 4-set?

Is unreal really the word to use here?
Its kinda EXACTLY how arcane has been for the past uhhh.. 12 months?

[ShasVa]

How does it function without the T18 4pc and class trinket? I'm (once again) considering Demonology as an alternative to my BM Hunter main, whom I've become bored of.

[Deleted]

Sign up to the PTR, create a fresh toon in 680 gear and try it. Not wholly representative because there are no artifacts, but it gives a much more realistic picture of demo than the absurdity it is on live

The T18 and trinket bonus make demo do about 50% more damage than it should, and that damage comes from spamming three buttons. Demonology without the gear that breaks it six ways from Sunday is nothing like it is on live.

The vastly inflated damage overcompensates for all the inherent weaknesses, which Legion will cruelly expose.

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My main problem with Demonology so far is that it feels too reliant on Demonic Empowerment. It also simply feels way too spammy, having to cast it each time you summon something. I'd much rather see it become a cooldown which focuses all summoned demons onto your target and empowers them.

IMHO demo is so reliant on DE it should be instant. That would compensate quite a lot for the weaknesses. Your damage comes from your demons, and your dps goes to crap without them being DE'd all the time.

They are essentially DOTs with legs, and hit like soggy noodles without DE damage multiplier.

[striderZA]

I'd say it's even worse than Aff in SoO atm, but it's just prepatch so who really cares, right?

Slow down there, Aff was doing 2-3x (some cases even more) the DPS than any other class in SoO. Prepatch balance means nothing, it's completely broken, yes, but doesn't mean anything.

[Relapses]

Slow down there, Aff was doing 2-3x (some cases even more) the DPS than any other class in SoO. Prepatch balance means nothing, it's completely broken, yes, but doesn't mean anything.

...that was due to Soul Swap on council fights but at least Soul Swap spam required high APM to pull off properly (and you could fuck it up). Demo w/ 4-pc and Class Trinket is three buttons and impossible to fuck up unless you're literally brain dead.

Is unreal really the word to use here?
Its kinda EXACTLY how arcane has been for the past uhhh.. 12 months?

Nah. Arcane was largely dependent on the opener RNG which Demo really isn't very punishing for fucking up. You can fuck up your opener completely and as long as you have a steady stream of CT/4pc procs, you'll still pull off ridiculous damage.

Also, I'm not insulting the class. I'm just musing how hilarious it is that they're allowing Demo to exist the way it does right now... especially considering how almost entirely antithetical it is to the actual level 110 Demo gameplay.

[elcapone]

Sign up to the PTR, create a fresh toon in 680 gear and try it. Not wholly representative because there are no artifacts, but it gives a much more realistic picture of demo than the absurdity it is on live

The T18 and trinket bonus make demo do about 50% more damage than it should, and that damage comes from spamming three buttons. Demonology without the gear that breaks it six ways from Sunday is nothing like it is on live.

The vastly inflated damage overcompensates for all the inherent weaknesses, which Legion will cruelly expose.

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IMHO demo is so reliant on DE it should be instant. That would compensate quite a lot for the weaknesses. Your damage comes from your demons, and your dps goes to crap without them being DE'd all the time.

They are essentially DOTs with legs, and hit like soggy noodles without DE damage multiplier.

They should buff the demons without DE and make DE a minor CD for target swapping/burst. This would help with PVP because right now ramp time takes too long and if you get interrupted its GG.

[striderZA]

Also, I'm not insulting the class. I'm just musing how hilarious it is that they're allowing Demo to exist the way it does right now... especially considering how almost entirely antithetical it is to the actual level 110 Demo gameplay.

That's the point, there's no reason for them to even try and balance prepatch, because it does not matter, regardless of how dissimilar it is to gameplay at 110.

[Emophia]

I hope we get glyph of shadow bolt back at some point, they should just make it still register as one hit for gameplay purposes, it looked so damn awesome...

[Draxtor]

The main complaint with the spec seems to be it's too focused around Demonic Empowerment, and without it our pets don't do anything. I really think Blizz should look into slightly buffing our pet damage, and making Demonic Empowerment into a psuedo cooldown. Even if it's just a 20 second CD, that would still carry more weight than a spell you hit anytime you summon a pet.

[Deleted]

...that was due to Soul Swap on council fights but at least Soul Swap spam required high APM to pull off properly (and you could fuck it up). Demo w/ 4-pc and Class Trinket is three buttons and impossible to fuck up unless you're literally brain dead.



Nah. Arcane was largely dependent on the opener RNG which Demo really isn't very punishing for fucking up. You can fuck up your opener completely and as long as you have a steady stream of CT/4pc procs, you'll still pull off ridiculous damage.

Also, I'm not insulting the class. I'm just musing how hilarious it is that they're allowing Demo to exist the way it does right now... especially considering how almost entirely antithetical it is to the actual level 110 Demo gameplay.

I have a sneaking feeling that if demo plays on live now like it's going to play in Legion then...no one would play it in Legion. As it is at least some players are going to be fooled into thinking it's a great dps spec and wont; find out until they've invested some time into it before giving up and switching

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That's the point, there's no reason for them to even try and balance prepatch, because it does not matter, regardless of how dissimilar it is to gameplay at 110.

My issue is that it is giving a totally false impression, massive dps for a simple rotation that is so strong demo's mechanical weaknesses don't screw you over...like they will in Legion without the gear crutch

[Baconeggcheese]

That's the point, there's no reason for them to even try and balance prepatch, because it does not matter, regardless of how dissimilar it is to gameplay at 110.

Eh, they should try and do a tiny bit better job than they've done. The difference between demo and the other 2 specs is because of how they did / didn't change set bonuses that easily could be fixed so that the one spec doesn't dominate the other two.

It gives people a really poor impression of the specs and how they play in the grand scheme of things. How many people have you seen pop on mmo alone to complain about how the specs are relative to each other? Now imagine the hundreds of thousands / millions of people who just come to those misunderstandings but never bother to actually discuss it on a forum or what have you to learn better.

[Hellfury]

I been a warlock main top 100 guild during whole wow, and let me tell you how I know how gear dependent warlock is

Thing is on Legion Iam 110% going casual, but still would like to "power pug" raids if that makes any sense to you, and ofc take part on serious mythic+ dungeons. Thing is it seems demo wont be the spec for it and I lost interest on aff and destro(having played all kinds of variations from it) I dont really like legion aff/Destro, so for me its demo or go home(having aswell to invest my now precious time on the artifact)

Am I wrong?

[Smog]

Thing is on Legion Iam 110% going casual, but still would like to "power pug" raids if that makes any sense to you, and ofc take part on serious mythic+ dungeons. Thing is it seems demo wont be the spec for it and I lost interest on aff and destro(having played all kinds of variations from it) I dont really like legion aff/Destro, so for me its demo or go home(having aswell to invest my now precious time on the artifact)

Am I wrong?

Demo is not good for mythic+. Its movement is terrible, its cleave is terrible, its target switching is terrible, its burst is terrible. As of right now, if you want to take Mythic+ seriously, you need to spec destro.