Loot priority

[Cronovey]

@Eazy

You also took his question completely out of context in that quote. The OP specifically said that he wanted input because he believed DPS should get gear first while others believed differently. Answering a question completely out of context by discussing loot systems makes no sense. There are two questions in the stated question: [What do we think of the predicament?] to which we'd answer that perhaps we thought it was silly to worry about loot distribution before the expansion launched or something personal like that, and then [How would you prioritize gear?] to which you'd answer with DPS > Tanks > Healers, Tanks > Healers > DPS, or whatever variety and distribution you would personally do. Neither portion of the question had anything to do with what loot system to use, although all of it is in fact sound advice. I simply pointed out that most players were not actually answering the question stated by the OP.

@Marrilaife

The first raids will follow the same as the two previous expansions:

Mists: Mogu'shan Vaults (no tier) followed by Heart of Fear/Terrace of Endless Spring (tier 14)
Warlords: Highmaul (no tier) followed by Blackrock Foundry (tier 17)
Legion: Emerald Nightmare (no tier) followed by The Nighthold (tier 19)

[kamuimac]

We used DKP(and EPGP later), then loot council( people with highest attendance had bigger priority etc.), and now we're just using /roll.



And that's probably the best option, no drama and it's fair.
You killed the boss? You deserve the loot.
=

maybe its fair but its very uneffective - the more progress you get the more loot will drop each week and the more loot will go to everybody - puting yourself ahead of progress of guild is maybe selfishly fair in you eyes but will give you much less loot in span of few months.

lets put into example : you use "fair looting" and then your progress goes lets say 4/7 hc next week 5/7 hc then after 2 weeks 6/7 hc - that yould give for example you 5x4 + 5x5 + 5x6 = 75 pieces but if you used loot proiory myaybe your progress would end up as 5/7 -> 7/7 ->1/7 M giving you not only 5x5 + 7x5 +( 7x5+1x4) = 99 pieces but some of them frm higher difficulty - thats 24 pieces of loot more wouldnt your raiders be more happy when it would mean extra chance for loot piece for each of them in the same time frame just because you gear those who do 70 percentile first instead those who do 20th ?

[Maudib]

Not sure why everyone is talking about these different loot systems when it has nothing to do with the question being asked. The question was: "What role should get loot first?", not "What type of loot system should we use?".

Because the short answer is NO ROLE should get priority. Players that attend raid regularly should get priority.

The reason people are talking loot systems is that DKP or similar types reward people for showing up. Any upgrade that shows up in raid next week helps progression. Any upgrade that is absent is a net loss.

The concept of prioritizing tank/heal/dps is ludicrous... as the gear pretty much dictates what role should get it. What you want to do is make sure the most reliable person in that role gets it.

When talking tier tokens... the people showing up the most, again, should get them.

[Gracin]

Now obviously there is no 100% correct answer, and no matter what priority you use there will be times where you have to make adjustments. However the way I've always looked at it like this.

Tank gear = Eases Healing by taking less damage
Heal gear = Eases Damage/Mana by doing more healing/regen
Dps gear = Reduces fight times, thereby reducing amount of tank damage AND reducing healing/regen needed

So essentially giving DPS priority assists in two helpful acts towards the raid, compared to healing and tanking only contributing to one. Now again, if your tanks are getting popped you gotta show them some love. Or if your healers just can't handle the output/regen needed, the same goes for them. But imo dps get priorities, just not so much as to alienate your other raiders.

[Fistfury]

My personal opinion (after raiding for 10 years, on and off, best ranking was top 2,000 so I'm nothing special) - is that for most guilds - a loot "system" outside of need / greed or PL is completely unnecessary. Most guilds aren't going to be pushing split runs and clearing heroic within 24 hours of it opening. Most are going to be clearing heroic in 3-4 weeks, and then pushing a few mythic bosses (maybe). By this time, all of the elite guilds are done and on farm. The new PL system looks great for average guilds in my opinion. A good half of the guilds I've raided with have had loot drama. I completely understand WF guilds doing loot systems that funnel loot at their discretion - for them it makes perfect sense - they HAVE to be concerned with 1-2% differences. There really can't be more than 1,000 guilds in the world at this point who even need to bother (clearing content within one lockout, or two). Just my two cents.

[GwiGwi]

If your guild is trying to push ranks / progression, dps get's gear first. Outside of rare situations of extremely OP tank/healer set bonuses, this is always the correct answer for progression.

If your guild is more casual, just use personal loot and save yourself the frustration.

[Frolk]

I always ran with Dps>tanks>healers. With tanks prio if they get smashed. Ofc take in account of the skill level, ilv upgrade and attendance of each person though.

This, when i was raidleading i followed this as much as possible.
Should also see how gain ppl get from 0set to 2set to 4set
Like, an frost dk will be fine with 2set while unholy wants 4set etc.

[Deleted]

Give enough to healers and tanks so that the tanks don't have HP bars that act like equalizers for DnB songs and the healers don't get so mana starved in the first 2 minutes of the fight that they then need to go to suramar and start sniffing mana dust off the sidewalk. After that it should be mostly DPS getting gear as that will be the thing that makes your raids easier by killing things faster, skipping certain phases etc.

In the end it all depends on the players you have. As long as you're not dealing with crybabies who think that all gear belongs to them the above works. If you have to deal with people moaning about loot then might as well do it with /roll or use personal. As far as tier pieces & trinkets go generally speaking give them to the person that benefits the most from them. If you have a rogue that's always miles ahead in damage done compared to your other raiders then it makes sense to give that guy the tier pieces/ OP trinkets first as those pieces of loot will have the biggest impact when used by that guy. Giving your healers tier pieces first makes sense as well if your healers are either really struggling or the tier set will make some fights a lot easier. In terms of what healer should get them give them to the healer that will benefit the most from them in the context of the bosses which you're progressing on. For tanks it's pretty much the same as for healers.

[Deleted]

If everyone in your raid is equally skilled then DPS > Tank > Heal.

[judgementofantonidas]

So me and a few friends are starting a raiding guild and we're trying to figure out loot priorities.

I believe we should prioritise the highest dps, while other members believe we should give prio to tanks / heals, especially for tier sets for the bonuses.

What are people's thoughts and how would you prioritise the gear?

Gear DPS first. Not just your best DPSer but all your dps keeping them within a close margin of one another on their measured output. If you have one that cannot stay within that margin then replace them and gear another. Then gear your tanks and finally healers. Gearing your dps first allows you to get their damage into the range where you are not going to wipe to enrage and may even avoid some pesky mechanics. Gearing your tanks next helps your healers nearly as much as throwing them a piece of gear or two. Mind you, this is not going to be like, no gear for tanks and healers until we are three tiers in. No, it is going to be happening simultaneously, however when the choice is between one of the three positions the priority is clear.

- - - Updated - - -

My personal opinion (after raiding for 10 years, on and off, best ranking was top 2,000 so I'm nothing special) - is that for most guilds - a loot "system" outside of need / greed or PL is completely unnecessary. Most guilds aren't going to be pushing split runs and clearing heroic within 24 hours of it opening. Most are going to be clearing heroic in 3-4 weeks, and then pushing a few mythic bosses (maybe). By this time, all of the elite guilds are done and on farm. The new PL system looks great for average guilds in my opinion. A good half of the guilds I've raided with have had loot drama. I completely understand WF guilds doing loot systems that funnel loot at their discretion - for them it makes perfect sense - they HAVE to be concerned with 1-2% differences. There really can't be more than 1,000 guilds in the world at this point who even need to bother (clearing content within one lockout, or two). Just my two cents.

There is just as much loot drama when one guy gets shit lucky a whole run with personal loot. No, it is a shit system. Master loot all the way even in a scrubby little guild that only clears heroic each tier.

[TwoNineMarine]

Tanks > Heals > DPS

[Arkura]

What a bunch of bull

every ''hardcore'' leader knows that dps benefit the most

You can have as much dps as you want when your tank is getting one shot or healers cant keep people up you're done with

[ItsTiddles]

I think some people see "prioritize dps" and read "dont give anyone else gear until dps is fully equipped bis". Obviously you want your tanks and healers to have their trinkets (which are just for them anyways) and some tier (depending on the tier and what is better for who), but from a mythic healer's perspective I would rather have my dps more geared. If we can do the fight for the loot in the first place, then clearly the tanks aren't being one shot. More damage = quicker fights = less mana problems.
It's also good to keep in mind if something is a minor vs a major upgrade. Is your shadow priest getting a 5 ilvl upgrade bracers where your holy priest still 20 ilvl lower bracers from dungeons? It might be a bigger impact to give it to the healer in cases that that.

[Deleted]

.......

As a GM of semi hardcore guild and a raid leader i can only approve Vaelorian post. I did it for the last few years and while you still get some people leave your guild as they "deserved that one item more then others" this is the most fair of them all. And if people leave your guild because of gear - they were not worth to be there in the first place ..

Good luck and god's strength as you will need it

- - - Updated - - -

... If you have one that cannot stay within that margin then replace them and gear another....

lol, so happy we don't have to play together talking about having fun playing games while trying to achieve something.

[emilylorange]

So me and a few friends are starting a raiding guild and we're trying to figure out loot priorities.

I believe we should prioritise the highest dps, while other members believe we should give prio to tanks / heals, especially for tier sets for the bonuses.

What are people's thoughts and how would you prioritise the gear?

Marginal gains.

What's going to benefit the guild more - your top DPS gets a 1% overall increase in performance or your mid-range dude gets a 5%?

If you were a member of your own guild, what would encourage you to stay if you knew you were never going to get an upgrade until the top guy is decked out? What if you were on his tier token and the RNG hasn't been generous with those drops? What if he gets a tiny weapon upgrade that would have been huge for you? What if all the loot gets funneled to him and he leaves or quits? Your guild has lost all it's hard work.

[GwiGwi]

You can have as much dps as you want when your tank is getting one shot or healers cant keep people up you're done with

This is not how high end raiding works, there are very very few mechanics in the game that will "one shot" your tank if they are playing correctly. Tank deaths are usually due to certain phases of a fight lasting longer due to lack of dps to push past that mechanic. Healers going oom are either due to your raid taking excessive avoidable damage or again, certain phases of a fight lasting longer due to a lack of dps to push past that mechanic. This is why at the top end, every single guild gears DPS > Tanks > Healers.

Marginal gains.

What's going to benefit the guild more - your top DPS gets a 1% overall increase in performance or your mid-range dude gets a 5%?

If you were a member of your own guild, what would encourage you to stay if you knew you were never going to get an upgrade until the top guy is decked out? What if you were on his tier token and the RNG hasn't been generous with those drops? What if he gets a tiny weapon upgrade that would have been huge for you? What if all the loot gets funneled to him and he leaves or quits? Your guild has lost all it's hard work.

The question being asked was not if you would gear your top DPS over a mid-tier DPS, the question being asked is which ROLE you would gear first.

[Arkura]

This is not how high end raiding works, there are very very few mechanics in the game that will "one shot" your tank if they are playing correctly. Tank deaths are usually due to certain phases of a fight lasting longer due to lack of dps to push past that mechanic. Healers going oom are either due to your raid taking excessive avoidable damage or again, certain phases of a fight lasting longer due to a lack of dps to push past that mechanic. This is why at the top end, every single guild gears DPS > Tanks > Healers.

Starting a thread about who to give priority to without knowing so himself doesn't really tell you its high end raiding is it?

[GwiGwi]

Starting a thread about who to give priority to without knowing so himself doesn't really tell you its high end raiding is it?

Sure, the OPs goals are not made clear. Your argument was that DPS should be not priority on gear due to the potential of tanks being "one shot" and healers inability to keep up the raid, I would argue that gearing out DPS first would be more beneficial at any level of raiding.

Like I said earlier, if you're pushing progression go with DPS > Tanks > Healers. If not, go with personal loot and save yourself the drama / hassle.

[Spiffums]

GL>GL's GF> GL's GF's lil brother> everyone else.

[emilylorange]

The question being asked was not if you would gear your top DPS over a mid-tier DPS, the question being asked is which ROLE you would gear first.

So me and a few friends are starting a raiding guild and we're trying to figure out loot priorities.

I believe we should prioritise the highest dps, while other members believe we should give prio to tanks / heals, especially for tier sets for the bonuses.

What are people's thoughts and how would you prioritise the gear?

Where does it say that? It just says 'the highest dps', which can easily refer to whichever dude's on top of the meter.