I Had More Spells at Level 60.....

[Flurryfang]

I was all for the pruning before the pre-patch. There are a lot of abilties, which most of my characters never use and they just fill on the actionbar. But i will say, that after the pruning has happend, that they have gone too far. Some specs/classes are missing situational spells, which gives them useability in some situations. For example, afflic warlocks have lost Rain of Fire, which was not a very good dps spell, but it made it so, that they could aoe very small mobs. Right now, as affflic, you are useless against creatures like the Dark Iron Recruits in BRD. The mobs don't have enough HP for your Seed to blow, so all you can do is dot them all and proberly die before killing half of a single pack.

Blizzard really needed to have a checklist nearby, when they did the prune, just to be sure, that they did not remove tools, which were life saving in some situations. Right now, i feel they did too much pruning and did not give enough back in the artifact weapen.

[Deleted]

If you have 10 button rotation and you mess up one button, you did 90% of your game correctly.
If you have 4 button rotation and you mess up one button, you did 75% of your game correctly.
The mistakes players make with their rotations get worse with shorter rotations and its easier for great players to distinguish themselves from the good and the rest.
If you want a game with a plenty of buttons, go play some turn-based game from the 90s and stop crying.

When you have 4 buttons, you don't mess up.
Wether a mistake really gets worse or not depends on how the class works more than on how many abilities the said class has.
Having a 4 buttons rotation doesn't mean you're going to have to press these buttons only once to complete your rotation, but it might mean that you're going to have to press the same buttons several times, so messing up once doesn't mean you did 75% of your game correctly, it would only be true if your rotation consisted of 4 keycaps presses

[Cracked]

Even in pvp you used at best 10% of those spells. They removed useless spells and I say good.

Yeah, you must have sucked kinda hard then.

[barackohmama]

I would be ok with the pruning if they actually removed spells that were excessive and bloats the rotation. But as it is now they have removed(or made them pvp only) a lot of "fun" spells that you enjoy using every now and then. It's never a good thing when they try to streamline classes and remove all the nifty unique tools.

[Xenryusho]

Oh yeah, bring back that deep Vanilla customization and gameplay where most of the CLASSES had only one viable talent build (=only one viable spec) and most of the rotations consisted of 1 or 2 spells. Those spells don't help much in the spellbook if they're not worth using.

Warriors had two viable talent choices depending on whether or not there was another warrior with improved demoralizing shout, I forget the talent name.

I don't remember any other class having that kind of wiggle room though. The vanilla talents were just a hodge podge of mandatory ones like double shield block.

Edit: Also to add to the discussion, I like super easy rotations. I think the game should be difficult due to increasingly complex mechanics and boss abilities, the nuance should come from the using of abilities correctly in context of the boss, not from feats of manual dexterity.

[Shuken]

Your goalpost-moving shitpostfest is getting annoying.

Not sure if its been addressed but half the spells in your spellbook in Vanilla were Rank 1/2/3/4/5 Abilities. A few posts back I read you say "You used em all in PvP." You must have been one of the worst, if not worst, PvPer if you used those shitty rank 1 spells

Yeah except spellbooks had an option to remove all but the latest rank of a spell. Also, using a rank 1 instant cast to get rid of grounding to save mana was standard gameplay in pvp for anyone good. Not sure how you managed to be so wrong on everything you said with as few words and ideas as you expressed there but kuddos !

[Deleted]

If they prune one more time they can actually make a dota bg. That´s something, right?

[Deleted]

Pvp didnt not require all your skills LOL dont be silly, maybe if youre low rating sure, but once you get up in rating most people have 3 or 4 of the same ability on their action bars to be able to see things easier, and definitely do not use all skills, im not saying i agree with the pruning, but this was by far the most untrue statement ive seen

They do use all combat skills.

[ComputerNerd]

You also made more decisions regarding your character when this game came out than since Cataclysm wiped away the talent trees.

How you build your character is not a feature of a MMORPG, it is the feature. Everything else is secondary even the gameplay itself is secondary to building your character, its the kind of stuff you think about when you are at work or school and couldnt wait to go home to play WoW or Diablo 2. We have all done it.


That is all but gone, our characters arent as much our own. You get to chose how your charge works at lvl 15 for Warriors, then you chose how you want to stun people, then how you want to regen health.


Most of the early "talents" are just as uninspired as the worst talents in Classic. I was way more excited to spend 5 talent points into Corruption to make it instant, then any early talents in the current game.

We are one more Legion 2.0 expansion from having as many active abilities as MOBA characters. If you went back in time during WotLK and made a topic and posted pictures "from the future" people would laugh you out of the building.

There are simply superior choices.
There is no "character-building" there, only those which provide the best results in a given encounter.
There is no RPG in wow, despite the acronym.
There has never been that, no real character decisions that define it.
That differentiate it from others in such a way that will actually segregate you from other players, since that is what the real decisions would do.
Hence why RPG is done best in single player games.

People need to stop getting hung up on terms they don't understand, and using them as arguments.
What decisions can you make that really differentiate your character from another.
Each tier of talents has a total of 3 - that is just 2 different decisions you can make from another character of the same spec.
How many options are there for pledging allegiances to factions, ones which have lasting impact on what you do or don't have access to.
The effect of the aldor/scryers decision is minor.

[FelPlague]

But then why remove them if you dont use them often? Nifty tools makes the character much more fun to play. Like when you find out a cleaver way to use a certain spell you don't use often to overcome an encounter. There's really no harm to have a lot of spells. I could understand if people want pruning to happed if you have to bind too much, but that's been fixed already in previous patches.

because its confusing and annoying... "here, heres 5 million numbers, now... BANM I HAVE A GUN AIMED AT YOU, TELL ME WHAT NUMBER IS THE 28592 ONE I TOLD YOU!"

if you add too many spells it becomes just a shitfest of having way too much to memorize

[Germs]

I will say I actually support getting rid of all the self healing.

Is saying this becoming the next internet meme? Like, if we spam this enough it will become true?

[McNeil]

If they prune one more time they can actually make a dota bg. That´s something, right?

They actually had a DotA BG planned in MoP but it got scrapped.

[Paula Deen]

Yeah except spellbooks had an option to remove all but the latest rank of a spell. Also, using a rank 1 instant cast to get rid of grounding to save mana was standard gameplay in pvp for anyone good. Not sure how you managed to be so wrong on everything you said with as few words and ideas as you expressed there but kuddos !

Except I wasn't wrong. Dude said he used EVERYTHING. One spell at Rank 1. Healing Spells at Rank 1. Those are not everything are they?

[ImpalerEU]

My lock at 70 had more spells than I had places for keybinds. It was getting silly the pruning needed to happen.

Exactly and I barely used(or needed to) most of the abilities I had. The thread starter is also forgetting that he still hasn't experienced the PvP talents and Artifact talents.

[Deleted]

Your goalpost-moving shitpostfest is getting annoying.

Not sure if its been addressed but half the spells in your spellbook in Vanilla were Rank 1/2/3/4/5 Abilities. A few posts back I read you say "You used em all in PvP." You must have been one of the worst, if not worst, PvPer if you used those shitty rank 1 spells

When did I talk about vanilla ?
Plus rank one spells actually had some use because they cost less mana.

[Aphrel]

i play a mage.. Atm firespec uses fireblast, fireball, pyroblast, scroch, phenoix flames, flamestrike, flame on, rune of power, Combustion and dragons breath, timewarp. thats 11 abilitys even when ive picked 2 passive talents where i couldve used cinderstorm and living bomb.
Also this is when you never have to deal with mechanics. If stuff happens you might need to use blink, counterspell, spellsteal, iceblock, invis, icebarrier.

So for firemage we use between 11 and 19 spells on any given encounter. Wich imo is way preferable to the 1 button dps rotation we had in vanilla.

[Paula Deen]

When did I talk about vanilla ?
Plus rank one spells actually had some use because they cost less mana.

Oh please, you meant "legacy", quit arguing semantics.

PvP required you to use 100% of your spells

[Aleksej89]

Hunters and druids lost a lot of stuff.

As a druid healer you no longer have all the cool cat stuns/bleeds, or the default defensive abilities of the bear.

As a hunter you just lost a lot of utility, like Misdirect without CD, Tranquil Shot, Master's call, ton of crowd control - specs feel very empty and lacking.

[Deleted]

Oh please, you meant "legacy", quit arguing semantics.

Absolutely not.
I didn't mean that PvP required you to use all of your abilities in vanilla, I meant that PvP required you to use all of your abilities prior to the prune, i.e, during WoD.
The thread is not even about vanilla, OP only emphasize the lack of abilities by saying that vanilla had more.

[Paula Deen]

Absolutely not.
I didn't mean that PvP required you to use all of your spells in vanilla, I meant that PvP required you to use all of your spells prior to the prune

Man, I am glad I used Water Walking and Path of Frost in PvP. Same with Water Breathing, oh and Far Sight.