I Had More Spells at Level 60.....

[jamisawesome]

Oh yeah, bring back that deep Vanilla customization and gameplay where most of the CLASSES had only one viable talent build (=only one viable spec) and most of the rotations consisted of 1 or 2 spells. Those spells don't help much in the spellbook if they're not worth using.

Talents were pretty straightforward but wasn't vanilla more about building up a character for status and fame? The meat of the gameplay was to plan and prepare and to that end you had tons of "options", some of which could be good and most of which weren't but at least it was something to consider.

[Deleted]

Yeah I totally miss all the spells I had back in Vanilla, including things such as:

Healing Touch (Rank 1)
Healing Touch (Rank 2)
Healing Touch (Rank 3)
Healing Touch (Rank 4)
Healing Touch (Rank 5)

That compelling gameplay!

[Moozart]

Seriously the prune is painful. It was very exciting checking out the new animations and xmog system. Then I see that my spellbook only has 2 pages....

This isn't a big deal for PvE, but PvP it's going to suck. I will say I actually support getting rid of all the self healing.

Hopefully it angers you so much that it ultimately makes you quit, one less whiner. You are one of those people that if they gave us more you would complain about that too.

[Hotmail]

As usual old talent discussions devolve into a case study for severe amnesia.

By TBC there were already tons of builds to be made with the existing talent system. Holy Priests had to choose between Divine Spirit or Circle of Healing, Resto Druids had to choose between Tree of Life or Dreamstate, Rogues were AR/Prep or Mut/Prep for the longest time and even tri-specs worked for a while. These builds had to be experimented with and discovered before they were popularized, in the meantime people did whatever they wanted - personally I enjoyed the idea of having Counterattack on my Night Elf Hunter even if it made no sense. I felt like the ultimate warrior - master of beasts, combat and frolicking in the woods.

The downfall of the old talent trees was the availability of information, not the +1% talents and certainly not the fact that eventually everything degenerated into cookie cutter builds (which still offered variation, as mentioned above).

[jettzypher]

I will agree that the lack of abilities is a bit odd. Having open spaces on my two main actions bars with all my tools takes some adjusting.

However! I have clearly defined abilities with little redundancy, and even fewer abilities that see zero use. I also feel that the offensive abilities on most classes are more specific to the specialization as opposed to being more class generic. So less spec overlap on abilities, which is good for balance purposes.

There were some abilities that were removed completely or at least tied to specs I don't play that I would like to see back. But I understand and I'm okay with the changes. It's simply and focused. which I don't mind.

[melodramocracy]

Please keep your moba garbage arguments away from MMORPG's please.

I should have put a sarcasm tag on that, though I'm sure there are players who'd love even further pruning.

[Joeydivision82]

OP you're also forgetting that ALL specs had from 5-10 ranks AND you had all 3 specs in a single tab instead of being split and having general tab. Even when they split the spellbook up, you still had all talents with all ranks in there.

[Orange Joe]

Absolutely not.
I didn't mean that PvP required you to use all of your abilities in vanilla, I meant that PvP required you to use all of your abilities prior to the prune, i.e, during WoD.
The thread is not even about vanilla, OP only emphasize the lack of abilities by saying that vanilla had more.

How well did unending breath work for you in pvp?

[TheWorkingTitle]

The game used to have primary spells and secondary spells. Primary ones were rotational and the backbone or structure of the class. The secondary ones, however, were situational, niche, and for flavoring.

You could get by just fine doing the vast majority of the game with just the primary spells and abilities. If you wanted to min/max and put forth every ounce of potential your class was capable of, you had that option too.

Now, the game is much more streamlined and simplistic in terms of class potential and depth. It's great for those that want that style of gameplay, but what those people seem to not realize is they've always been able to do that -- but the players that wanted extra keybinds for those situational and niche moments, they longer can.

That is bad for the game, alienates its more skillfully dedicated players, and has gotten progressively worse in this regard since Cataclysm with no end in sight.

[SoulSoBreezy]

Seriously the prune is painful. It was very exciting checking out the new animations and xmog system. Then I see that my spellbook only has 2 pages....

This isn't a big deal for PvE, but PvP it's going to suck. I will say I actually support getting rid of all the self healing.

Yeah, all those fancy abilities but the only one that mattered was rank x fol =D

[Shangxi]

I frankly just wish Ret had Exorcism back and Brewmaster had Guard again, but I'll deal.

For PvP at least, Brewmasters DO get guard if you so choose.

[Triceratrozer]

For PvP at least, Brewmasters DO get guard if you so choose.

Hmm. I'd prefer it for PvE tanking, too.

[Gorgodeus]

Seriously the prune is painful. It was very exciting checking out the new animations and xmog system. Then I see that my spellbook only has 2 pages....

This isn't a big deal for PvE, but PvP it's going to suck. I will say I actually support getting rid of all the self healing.

There a several more spells that you will learn at level 110 that are strictly for PvP. Look at your Honor Talents tab.

[Deleted]

Level42 Warlock in TBC or WotLK...



They fucking made every class no fun! In the next Expansion you fucking have to only click one button and your Class plays automatically!

I can't fucking wait for Legecay Servers, Live is just a joke!

[CookieOfPower]

2 pages where you use about 90% of the spells, better then 8 pages were you use 10%

Agreed. The pruning needed to happen. Especially when there was rank 1 healing wave, rank 2 healing wave, etc...

[Packing an i5]

I was always in favor of pruning but some changes I think are dumb that were made to make each spec feel unique like for rogue Blind and gouge is combat only and the other 2 keep stuns. Blind and gouge were my favorite CC's to use on my rogue smartly as assassination. In return it's been given the opportunity to use Garrote without stealth on cooldown but the silence is only 1 second.

[Nurvus]

Seriously the prune is painful. It was very exciting checking out the new animations and xmog system. Then I see that my spellbook only has 2 pages....

This isn't a big deal for PvE, but PvP it's going to suck. I will say I actually support getting rid of all the self healing.

The only reason it might seem like Vanilla had more spells, is because:
a) you had Spell Ranks.
Fireball I
Fireball II
Fireball III
b) your Fire mage had frost bolt, cone of cold, frost nova, magic missiles, conjure tiny muffins, conjure pancakes, conjure toast, conjure bun... the list goes on.
...and then you used 10% of it.

[Ursiel]

I think all classes should have one ability called "Do Stuff" and it does stuff depending on your spec. Obviously having lots of different choices and things that you may not use all the time is bad.

"It hurt me brain when not know wut to do. Brain things hard. Me only want few spell so me not get confused," says the WoW player.

[Katchii]

The pruning needed to happen. Some of the classes do feel a bit bare without the talent abilities though due to the low amount of active abilities (Frost DK just feels so weird to me right now compared to before) but ultimately I think being able to play your class well without 10 buttons is very nice.

[shoegazing]

2 pages where you use about 90% of the spells, better then 8 pages were you use 10%

but it's two spellbook pages of things you'll probably actually use as opposed to a lot that you won't

where does this dumb meme keep coming from?

just because you used only 10% of your spells doesn't mean that's true for everyone else.

I used damn near everything in my spellbook and I can't even bring myself to log on my rogue (which has been my main for 12 years) anymore.

And no, one dumb artifact ability is not going to fix this crap kthxbye

- - - Updated - - -

Here's the thing though- if you feel like you've lost a lot of tools you used in PvP, so has everyone else. It's not like your class is the only one that is going to play differently now: you'll need to adjust to the new playstyle, and the smaller number of answers you have, but don't lose sight of the fact that other classes have a lot fewer abilities that you need answers to.

No one here is complaining that their class isn't powerful bc it was nerfed.

Rogue is still one of the most powerful classes in the game right now.

Doesn't mean I don't fall asleep at my keyboard when I try to play it.