[7.0] New Paladin Abilities and Talents

[Snegovik]

PvP templates not active in duels, prot is just as strong on live in duels but sucks majorly in arena and bg's.

Which is a real shame, all my paladin hopes for a decent dps spec were centred on prot.

Yeh i know they are not active =) but didnt you know for every duel you win, u get brownie points?

On the serious note, blizzard was talking about putting pvp templates in duels too but they are not sure yet. Also in PvP templates Ret's dmg is nerfed too 60% dmg on ES and 70% dmg on TV.
On life prot is pretty terrible in duels, personally on my Ret I had no issue beating prot wars, prot pallies and bears. The Blool dks are the only ones that are tough for me (did not have chance to duel brew master)

[Ryuji]

Been looking around and personally testing out different talents like Divine Hammer and Consecration out of curiosity and I was wondering why almost no one I see in heroic/mythic logs using either Cons or Divine Hammer. Reasons why?

[Morally Grey Storm]

Been looking around and personally testing out different talents like Divine Hammer and Consecration out of curiosity and I was wondering why almost no one I see in heroic/mythic logs using either Cons or Divine Hammer. Reasons why?

Consecration is very weak damage-wise, and almost has no place in rotation, it is also a static aoe, which requires your target to stand in it for 12 seconds to give full effect

Divine Hammer too long a cd compared to other choices, therefore slowing down HoPo generation.

These are the main reasons , I would suppose.

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PvP templates not active in duels, prot is just as strong on live in duels but sucks majorly in arena and bg's.

Which is a real shame, all my paladin hopes for a decent dps spec were centred on prot.

we s hall see if Prot will suck yet, I believe Prot has a great potential, unlike some other spec, which is s upposed to be vaguely competent at PvP.

[Deleted]

Been looking around and personally testing out different talents like Divine Hammer and Consecration out of curiosity and I was wondering why almost no one I see in heroic/mythic logs using either Cons or Divine Hammer. Reasons why?

I use Divine hammer with fires in dungeons(i dont recommend zeal for now because it will slow your HP generation to a crawl). I'm pretty sure it's the best output you can get for general cleave/AoE situation.

Consecration is absolute trash. Does very low damage and its stationary. You are better off with FV.

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They will have to either buff ES or modify the traits.

Or hopefully replace or redesign the talent! (One can dream)

Tbh... i'm ok with FV beeing better. ES is so clunky that it's best if it isn't mandatory.

[Deleted]

And again I think that none of the first tier talents apart from FV benefit from Ashbringer traits. Thank u bliz for the care given to our build

[Taeldorian]

Consecration is very weak damage-wise, and almost has no place in rotation, it is also a static aoe, which requires your target to stand in it for 12 seconds to give full effect

Divine Hammer too long a cd compared to other choices, therefore slowing down HoPo generation.

These are the main reasons , I would suppose.

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we s hall see if Prot will suck yet, I believe Prot has a great potential, unlike some other spec, which is s upposed to be vaguely competent at PvP.

I doubt prot will suck. It seems to be really really good either way, and I'm 100% positive that's what they want. Even if prot gets nerfed a bit more in pvp, it'll still be strong. We have some really good honor talents that synergize with each other, so unless they remove some of our honor talents or nerf them to oblivion prot will be viable. As an added bonus, truth guard looks fucking sweet.

I've loved holy in Arena on beta though. Feels good to actually have a presence when I'm on my target. I love it in pve too, but mainly pvping atm.

[Snegovik]

we s hall see if Prot will suck yet, I believe Prot has a great potential, unlike some other spec, which is s upposed to be vaguely competent at PvP.

I really hope Prot will be viable in arenas and RBGs, because there is no way i can bare a thought of doing rated pvp as Ret in its current state....

[Demsi]

Shame prot lost the Charge, i envy those that got to play with it on the alpha/beta

[Snegovik]

I doubt prot will suck. It seems to be really really good either way, and I'm 100% positive that's what they want. Even if prot gets nerfed a bit more in pvp, it'll still be strong. We have some really good honor talents that synergize with each other, so unless they remove some of our honor talents or nerf them to oblivion prot will be viable. As an added bonus, truth guard looks fucking sweet.

I've loved holy in Arena on beta though. Feels good to actually have a presence when I'm on my target. I love it in pve too, but mainly pvping atm.

Prot pvp talents are amazing, asp the last row the improve divine steed, you become immune to cc and you knock back the enemies (i think it will be nerfed) but immune to cc + 20% reduced dmg taken from the different talent its very very nice pvp wise, if KT is low and you need to finish it off, pop steed u cant be cced =)

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Shame prot lost the Charge, i envy those that got to play with it on the alpha/beta

Thats cuz warriors (including Bajheera) QQed that pallies got charge when it is War's Lore. Ofc to protect paladin lore, blizzard removed it

[ruiizu]

Prot pvp talents are amazing, asp the last row the improve divine steed, you become immune to cc and you knock back the enemies (i think it will be nerfed) but immune to cc + 20% reduced dmg taken from the different talent its very very nice pvp wise, if KT is low and you need to finish it off, pop steed u cant be cced =)

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Thats cuz warriors (including Bajheera) QQed that pallies got charge when it is War's Lore. Ofc to protect paladin lore, blizzard removed it

I wonder how the knockback works. Can you just keep knocking someone back and just like trample them off the edge in PvP?

[Snegovik]

I wonder how the knockback works. Can you just keep knocking someone back and just like trample them off the edge in PvP?

Yes you can actually =) (imagine you are a bull hitting a rubber ball with ur horns, ppl fly quiet far away) in BGs at least, i watched Savix's stream, he was knocking ppl to death off the map lol its so funny. This can be amazing in maps like EOTs and ABs because the duration is like what 8 seconds or more ? so if ppl all bunched up like in EOTs u can knock off 2-3 ppl, which will make prot best dps spec for that map lol, or imagine if some1 is capping a flag (ur teamate) and enemy is rushing in, guess what time to knock them back, same goes if you are an FC and ppl trying to kill you, u can just sit on the edge and as they come, u can knock them off the edge. the possibilities are limitless, thats why i think the knock back will be nerfed.

Edit: I find it funny how Prot pallies over there on another threat complaining how dull and bad Prot game play is, yet a lot of Rets say its amazing and fun compared to Ret. Hmmm i think some1 is spoiled cough prots cough prots.

[Ryuji]

I use Divine hammer with fires in dungeons(i dont recommend zeal for now because it will slow your HP generation to a crawl). I'm pretty sure it's the best output you can get for general cleave/AoE situation.

Consecration is absolute trash. Does very low damage and its stationary. You are better off with FV.

I've been fiddling around mostly with DH and it's been fairly nice but the HP generation definitely feels lacking when not spec'd Blade of Wrath. Also I did notice something, or maybe it's cause ElvUI and Supervillain are still somewhat messy for me but I couldn't proc stacks of the ret class trinket with Zeal at all. I don't know if this was posted in previous pages of this thread but I haven't looked too much into it.

Which reminds me in general to everyone here, what trinkets are worth using now? I have all of the HFC ones available + grontooth.

[Deleted]

Consecration is very weak damage-wise, and almost has no place in rotation, it is also a static aoe, which requires your target to stand in it for 12 seconds to give full effect

Divine Hammer too long a cd compared to other choices, therefore slowing down HoPo generation.

These are the main reasons , I would suppose.

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we s hall see if Prot will suck yet, I believe Prot has a great potential, unlike some other spec, which is s upposed to be vaguely competent at PvP.

It will be better than Ret, but that's really not saying much. 25% Blanket damage nerf stacked with 50% nerf on AS and SotR is pretty devastating. I think they went a little overboard, but we'll see if artefact and PvP talent can make up for it any. Just for reference.

Stat Template
•All damage done reduced by 25%
•Stamina: 85%
•Mastery: 25%
•Versatility: 0%

Spell Multipliers
•Avenger's Shield deals 50% damage in PvP
•Shield of the Righteous deals 50% damage in PvP
•Light of the Protector heals for 50% in PvP
•Hand of the Protector heals for 50% in PvP

75% Reduced mastery values is also pretty damn hurtful damage wise. Nvm 0% vers.

But it might be vaguely ok anyway, Prot will actually be able to connect fairly often and has ranged attacks for when it can't. Failing that, Prot has absolutely superb team utility compared to Ret, it can completely immune bubble people twice, on short cooldowns with the forbearance trait. It can Sac, and it can Hand of the Protector and Glyphed flash of light people for better offhealing than Ret. Inquisition (the taunt debuff, has exceedingly high uptime and increases damage enemies take not only from you but 20% from allies as well, which supplements our damage if it's low).

Charger if talented works as an effective peel ( and is hilarious for pushing people off cliffs and air juggling them).

So yeah I'm still kinda hopeful, the spec is amazingly designed compared to Ret with lots of ineternal synergies between abiltiies and talents, if the damage is even slightly there - it will function.

Ret is still a disgusting mess as far as I'm concerned.

[Snegovik]

-snip-

Yeh it won't be the best but still better than Ret,

If i am not mistake (feel free to correct me)

Ret pvp template is:

85% prime stat
25% mastery (so wtf the point of Judgement debuff lol if blizzard took out 75% of our mastery)
125% vers
125% haste
125% crit

Spell multipliers
TV 70% dmg
ES 60% dmg
JV 60% healing nerf.

If you look over all our % of states ends up being negative by 25% while other classes like mages end up 50% on top of stats or for example DH whose dmg is amazing, the only nerf they got was healing in meta form, only heals for 60% which is still more than enough.

So who ever said that Rets gonna be top tier with our dmg in Rated pvp on par with top dogs like wars/locks/dks/shadow/mages please re-think ur statement =)

[Morally Grey Storm]

Shame prot lost the Charge, i envy those that got to play with it on the alpha/beta

Did they, really???


Oh feth me backwards.

[Demsi]

Did they, really???


Oh feth me backwards.

Yeah, they replaced it with an immunity spell, They really want prot to be a utility spec too, that sword and shield is just for show, it's not like you're going to use it anyway, gotta make sure your mage overlords are happy

[Deleted]

Yeah, they replaced it with an immunity spell, They really want prot to be a utility spec too, that sword and shield is just for show, it's not like you're going to use it anyway, gotta make sure your mage overlords are happy

this pretty much sums up the design philosophy of blizzard! Make casters OP and Mages most likely on top of it... just screw the rest, especially plate classes!

[Taeldorian]

Did they, really???


Oh feth me backwards.

Doesnt make prot bad at all. We have plenty of honor talents that synergize with each other really well. The charge was removed a little while ago, and we are still doing extremely well on beta in arenas and BGs. We are also doing well on live in BGs, dont think that means anything though. Having it replaced with in immunity spell isnt bad either. We dont have trouble catching people as prot, so the charge wasnt exactly necessary.

Not sure if you have beta or not, but if you do go try prot in arenas. Its really good atm, not overpowered as it used to be, but really good. Out of all the classes I played, prot is one of the only ones that has honor talents that synergize well with each other.

[Demsi]

this pretty much sums up the design philosophy of blizzard! Make casters OP and Mages most likely on top of it... just screw the rest, especially plate classes!

Dk's are actually really good, Frost and Unholy is a blast to play, Arms kinda blows, but fury is fun as hell, so it's only paladin that gets this kind of treatment

[Ianus]

Dk's are actually really good, Frost and Unholy is a blast to play, Arms kinda blows, but fury is fun as hell, so it's only paladin that gets this kind of treatment

Like that is anything new from kalgan